Mobil 1 Question-HELP!

Hissses

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Posts
212
Reaction score
0
Location
El Cajon,Ca
From a search on the forum it appears that Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic 10w-30w is the oil to use.
All I find is NEW Super synthetic 10-30. The Mobil-1 web site does not even show Tri-Syn. Is this the replacement? It says "Higher-Milage Vehicle Formula" on the bottle and wounder if it is ok on new cars? Can we use this or what are you using?
 

mntngts99

Viper Owner
Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Posts
440
Reaction score
0
Location
Boise, ID, USA
Just changed my oil today. Said Mobil-1 Supersyn did not have NEW on it. On the back of the bottle dose it still say ( The only 10w-30 factory filled for Dodge Viper )
 

Ron

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 6, 2000
Posts
2,137
Reaction score
1
Location
Indianapolis
SuperSyn is the replacement for TriSyn and is a superior product vs. Trisyn. Has a different formulation that now includes moly amongst many other additives.

The "Higher Mileage" statement on the label is just a marketing statement designed for high mileage factory spec'd 5w-30 cars. Ignore it.

:usa:
 
OP
OP
H

Hissses

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 20, 2002
Posts
212
Reaction score
0
Location
El Cajon,Ca
Thanks for the info! No Viper stuff on the back just Meets Chrysler MS9615 and that other company that makes those plastic viper whana be's. :)
 

DEVILDOG

VCA Member North TX
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Posts
2,444
Reaction score
0
Location
VENOMVILLE, TEXAS, USA
I just filled with NEW SuperSyn Anti-Wear Technology 10W-30 Higher-Mileage Vehicle Formula which exceeds ILSAC GF-3 and API Service SL,SJ/CF. This is upgraded from the Tri-Synthetic Formula which exceeds SJ,SH/CF. SuperSyn is evidently the latest, greatest formulation.
 

webtrader

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 26, 2002
Posts
114
Reaction score
0
Location
El Dorado Hills, CA.
I was told by my local VIPER tech that the 15w-50 Mobil 1 is a better bet for the VIPER.

Any comments on this?

California Climate.

Jim
 

Torquemonster

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
2,174
Reaction score
0
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Many guys will bag me for this as they're not fmailiar with the product and anything not familiar tends to be treated with suspicion... and that's fair enough.

A while back I was asked to address the nations top engine builders about a new break through in oil technology that I'd been fortunate enough to become associated with for a time. The break through was not via one of the big companies but via the scientist who developed the new rocket fuel which NASA now use, and which saved 20% on fuel during rocket launches.

Oil companies have had a problem in the past with film strength and maintaining an adequate TBN (Total Base Number) which refers to its alkaline reserves... the bottom line is that the most slippery additive used to give film strength by Oil Companies is traditionally moly (abbreviated). Moly is good for about 100,000psi loading. Sadly, a good aggressive cam grind can generate loads on the lifter up to 160,000psi!!! No oil by ANY of the big Oil Manufacturers make an oil good for that loading - so you'll get WEAR with these cams.

There were a number of snake oil products that began to surface claiming massive film strength (over 200,000psi some of them) and gains in hp, better economy etc a few years ago (Bitron etc etc). They all had one thing in common - at least those that did actually work and several did work. That was they were chlorinated parafins.... which means in laymans terms that the oil with these additives had no additional alkaline reserves, and in fact over time, the acidity from combustion residue could actually climb to the point it would erode the engine.

A typcial TBN of 8 is a new oil... when it gets under 6, its time to change the oil... these snake oils would reduce wear but over time would reduce TBN to almost nothing... then you'd get acid erosion... that is why no oil company would touch them.

This scientist - which for commercial reasons must remain nameless - found a way to crack the molecular structure to create a high alkaline reserve AND enjoy high film strength. The result was an additive and or oil that trades under the name Oil Extreme. It has a TBN of 320 - which is about as far above the top oils like Mobil ONe as the star is from the sun. The big oil companies will catch up but may be a year or more away yet. Adding Oil Extreme additive to say Mobil One will provide a film strength around 270,000psi while increasing TBN from 8 to around 24 at recommmended dilution. That means that if you sent the used oil away after 5000 miles, it'd still be rated higher than brand new oil! It'd still have about TBN of 18 (compared to around 8 new).

so what does this all mean? It means that with a film strength of 270,000psi - greater than anything an internal combustion engine can produce - you can run a very thin oil for even more power and yet still reduce wear. It means also you will have more alkaline reserve in your oil from combusiton acids than any major oil on the market.

There is one other oil using the same product as Oil Extreme but secrecy between the two companies that the scientist made arrangements with meant I've never been able to find out who - it could be Royal Purple but because I do not know - I'd run Oil Extreme because I know it definitely has this technology. The scientist involved got ripped off by big oil and that is why he will not share the technology with them.

I've used Castrol 0W/30 with Oil Extreme on some hot engines very successfully. The 50 weight oils are the thick "syrips" that are required when you run aggressive cam ramps etc without Oil extreme in racing engines - its dinosaur oil!

We went from Quaker State 50 weight racing oil in the 2500hp blown alcohol pro-mod doorslammer to Oil Extreme. What difference did we see?

Quaker State oil would last about 3 runs before turning to milk (from methanol dilution) and we'd change it. The engine would typically require replacing at least a pushrod and / or valve spring or two every race day. By end of season the engine was stuffed and needed a complete rebuild. We'd go through heaps of pushrods and springs, on top of the normal stuff like blowing up the burst panel, breaking blower belts, smashing pistons and rods etc etc.

With Oil Extreme we went a whole season with NO BREAKAGES PERIOD except one! The engine guy forgot to pre-lube one pushrod and it got blued on top and needed replacing - as did the spring above it... that was it. No wear on any surface after a full racing season running between 2750 and 3000lbs to 6 second passes at over 200mph.

Oil changes? It'd last a whole day, not just 2-3 runs.

Go figure.

Top racing teams are using it now, some quietly, some openly. F1 in Europe were seriously interested (Jordan used it in F3) but the pull of the big oil companies was so strong, they risked losing major sponsorships to continue using it... that's the problem. You don't have to wait until they find out how to make it.. look at www.oilextreme.com (if I recall) and get some... and no - I don't get paid for this and couldn't care less whether you use it or not... that's your choice. But its what I'd be doing and I guarantee I'd get my engine to run quicker and smoother than on any other oil you're using.
 

GR8_ASP

Enthusiast
Joined
May 28, 1998
Posts
5,637
Reaction score
1
Okay, waiting for Tom's response.

From my perspective (which is much less technically capable than Tom), this sounds like snake oil.

Regarding camshaft wear the Viper uses roller followers (like most other type II, III and IV valvetrains). Comments about camshaft pressure and wear are untrue for these roller follower applications. They have rolling contact pressure (Herzian) and not sliding. Less friction or more film capability would be meaningless.

Direct acting valvetrains (type I) designs do not use roller followers but have buckets that the camshaft lobe rides on. The limiting factor for direct acting is the diameter of the bucket which limits the velocity component of the camshaft lobe. Contact forces are seldom a limiting factor.

The only modern type IV valvetrain with sliding contact is used in Nascar. They use extreme materials to allow significant contact pressures.

Having observed hundreds of test engines that have been tested under extreme conditions I can tell you that normal frictionally based wear is seldom a cause for engine failure. I personally will stick to proven technology. And that used during the development by the OEM is my first choice.
 

Ron

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 6, 2000
Posts
2,137
Reaction score
1
Location
Indianapolis
Hopefully Tom will join us soon. In the meantime....

I use Mobil's Delvac 1 full synthetic for it's superior additive package and wider viscosity range. It's the Mobil 1 of diesel oils and is rated for gas engines too.

It's a 5w-40 so perhaps a bit quicker flow cold and a little bit of extra protection hot, plus a higher level of the antiwear and detergents over Mobil 1.

On the 15W-50 Mobil 1 question, yes it does also have a higher additive package than 10w30, but I don't know if the weight is better for the engine or not. I feel more comfortable with the range of Delvac since I also drive in below 32 degree weather occasionally.

See below for the various additive packages:

You must be registered for see images


:usa:
 

Torquemonster

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Posts
2,174
Reaction score
0
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Appreciate your comments and perspective. Like I say - let everyone use what they are comfortable with... I'm just informing what is available - something I know is not snake oil - I've got better things to do than address a national conference about crap when I'm not getting paid to do it... when I make 3 figures an hour doing other things - it was a favour to a friend...

I've tested it myself at technical requirements far beyond anything a Viper V10 block would ever be capable of handling - and extreme pressure I can assure you is important for more than just solid lifter engines.

A roller lifter is used on all blown alcohol engines. What you say is right about them re less friction... but the loads are incredibile not only on the rolling surface, but the pushrods and springs etc etc.... roller lifters are however not as strong as a solid for obvious reasons - which is why some go to 1" rollers.

Roller lifters allow faster ramps - even inverse ramps and that builds power under the curve and top end. In street guise however - a fast ramp roller with agressive lift will not last as long as a solid lifter - because of the extra load on the lifter pin (a very small area to cope with the load)- that's why street rollers tend to be a bit soft. A "good" roller grind for a street engine is only good for around 10,000 miles on normal oil - but they'll make supherb power! Ask Competition Cams tech advisors.

Friction reduction does matter even in overhead cam multi-valve engines.

I directly compared Mobil One to Oil Extreme and dropped between 1/10th and 2/10th of a second accelerating between 100-120kph (my baseline runs), and went from 28mpg to 33mpg with NO OTHER CHANGE! These were not isolated tests but repeated many times. The engine was noteably quieter and smoother - something I can notice when doing 100,000km in a car.

Changing from the old 15W/40 Mobil One to the 0W/40 Mobil One saw me gain 12% economy. Then adding Oil Extreme to the Mobil One added a further 18% on top of the 12% I already had! This was one an engine that made 65% more power than stock, and did 25mpg stock. At the same time, the TBN of the oil improved to about 30 as I used more Oil Extreme than I needed to. I safely doubled my oil change intervals to 10,000km - could have doubled that safely, but wouldn't on principle. Anyone who knows the technical aspects of oil will verify that a higher TBN is good - other things being equal.

Snake oil? sorry - not this one. Snake oil always has some major draw back to it... typically they don't produce any meaningful results (like wynns, STP etc), or they do work but increase acid build up in your sump, or worse, they just wreck the delicate chemical balance of a well engineered base oil. In this case, the oil is available complete as well as an additive. My results mirrored that of many others - including well known names in engine building/racing - I got less heat, less friction, more power, more economy - all measureable by anyone, while increasing TBN, with no drawbacks other than its not as readily available at your local garage. As for the fact George French chose to use a business opportunity to sell it - that's his choice - I advised him against the MLM path.... seems he's learned that and gone more traditional with it - but its still like Royal Purple, Redline, Quaker State and Pensoil etc is over here (in NZ)- only available if you know where to go.

If in doubt leave it out - but don't call it snake oil please.... I can assure you the major Oil Companies would pay millions to be able to crack the molecules at the atomic level in this way, and they have their own scientists working on it right now... not that they have a vested interest in oil that lasts much longer, or engines that last much longer, and use less fuel etc... competition just drives them along that route - just slower than they might be capable of ;)

Nothing wrong with Mobil One anyway - but not the 50W - that's old technology now.... run Redline or Royal Purple rather than do that.
 

Steve 00RT/10

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 18, 2000
Posts
1,751
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
If one goes back to the last thread on this issue, you'll see a few postings on the results of oil analysis. The numbers I posted(Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30), pretty much whipped the Mobil 1 numbers.(the way I read Tom's interpretation of them) In addition, I had 6000 miles on my oil with several autocrosses, one high speed track run, and a winter of sitting with 3000 miles on the oil. The Mobil 1 was analyzed and changed at 1000 mile intervals if I remember correctly.

While I have no experience with Amsoil diesel oil, they do make a Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty diesel oil and a 15W-40 HD diesel oil. Those that prefer diesel oil because of the add packs might want to give one of them a try.

Steve

......I wish someone running Redline or Royal Purple would post some oil analysis numbers after some good hard running so we could compare.
 

Janni

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
3,029
Reaction score
5
Location
Raleigh, NC, USA
If your Viper Tech said your engine oil will minimize NGR and tranny wear - RUN - do not walk - to another tech....
 
Top