Neutral Gear rattle/Oil pan gasket=HELP!!!

ViperperfectionGTS

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I just bought Viper # 5. a B/W '96 GTS.

The car is in the shop getting the NGR oil "upgrade" per the Mopar TSB. I heard that this will help, but is there a way to eliminate it?

Also, Has anyone had issues with their oil pan leaking? The car had the gasket replaced 1k miles ago & now it's leaking again, under high pressure.

Thanks very much!
 

jcaspar1

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When I had my transmission replaced it came with the newer gear oil and the NGR disappeared. I actually miss it as it went well with the lumpy cam.


I just bought Viper # 5. a B/W '96 GTS.

The car is in the shop getting the NGR oil "upgrade" per the Mopar TSB. I heard that this will help, but is there a way to eliminate it?

Also, Has anyone had issues with their oil pan leaking? The car had the gasket replaced 1k miles ago & now it's leaking again, under high pressure.

Thanks very much!
 
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The pan itself can be warped or they did not install the new gasket right. If there is oil on the surfaces when installed sometimes it can still seep through.
 

99 R/T 10

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Where is it leaking from? Front or back of the pan? What might look like a pan leak could be a front timing cover leak.
 
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ViperperfectionGTS

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I appreciate the responses. The leak is at the very back of the pan.

With regards to the NGR. I sure hope the new fluid solves it.

Ill let you know.
 

JonB

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I appreciate the responses. The leak is at the very back of the pan.

With regards to the NGR. I sure hope the new fluid solves it.

Ill let you know.

Removing the ATF per TSB will fix 80% of NGR

The leak is likely the rear main seal...... or the pan gasket when replaced was not properly sealed there. Which means they probably omitted the front pan seal area too...
 

Earl

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I have had two gaskets replaced by the dealer during the past two years on my 03. Viper Tech did not know what was causing the leak. I'm hopeful that this is the last replacement but suspicious that it's not going to be.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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If NGR bothers you that much you bought the wrong car. Just wait until you drive one for a while and you'll find all sorts of little noises and vibrations that make up what the Viper is. What they are not is a luxury car and they are not exotics.
 

2000_Black_RT10

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The car is in the shop getting the NGR oil "upgrade" per the Mopar TSB. I heard that this will help, but is there a way to eliminate it?

It's Sunday.. it's snowing out.. don't let me be obnoxious because most are aware of this.. yet for any engine newby's..

Neutral gear rattle has been around for a long time in the combustion engine world, as you would know the crankshaft rotates due to a force applied from each piston in a sequence, basically it's a pulsating torque, not an evenly applied torque since the stroking piston force is off then on off then on... like pedalling a bike, only applying power with each pedal stroke. The worst case would be less number of cylinders and a higher compression ratio and bigger engine displacement (per cylinder). Porsche dealt with this in the 60's or so using a dual mass flywheel. A DMF is a 2 piece flywhweel with springs sandwiched between them, so one half of the flywheel acts as a vibration damper, absorbing the rotational pulse. LUK is a typical manufacturer of DMFs.

You do not want a DMF in a Viper to resolve NGR, it's heavier and they really have a poor history of reliability. Diesels typically utilize a DMF, but many owners opt to go with an aftermarket single / solid mass flywheel and live with a bit of gear rattle since a SMF is stronger and more reliable. It's a problem with diesels because of a higher compression ratio and large displacement, a stronger pulse with a 17.5:1 compression ratio, some are around 20:1 c/r, and like a Dodge Cummins, they are a 6 cylinder with large displacement and high compression which are the ingredients for NGR.

Once the car is in gear and the clutch is released the coil springs in the pressure plate will absorb the pulse since it's now connecting the crank to the driveline as an opposing force, but there still may a bit of rattle even at low rpm. Some manufacturers incorporate various sized springs in the pressure plate to absorb a pulse at different frequencies when in gear, regardless, once the clutch is depressed you don't have a vibration damper with a single mass flywheel other than the other end of the crank there is a damper (at the accessory pulley) which absorbs the pulse so the crankshaft doesn't break due to the pulsating rotational forces. Diesel guys increase the idle to increase the frequency which reduces the neutral gear rattle with a SMF and swap the front damper which they claim helps.

I wouldn't be surprised of there was a a bit more NGR with a lightweight flywheel, different clutch packs, etc.. Different oil can soften the vibration of the gear clearances, yet in the end of all this babbling there doesn't seem to be a solution other than a DMF, increase the idle, experiment with different front crank dampers or putting an electric motor in your car.
Best regards,
Mike
 
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2000_Black_RT10

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Has anyone had issues with their oil pan leaking? The car had the gasket replaced 1k miles ago & now it's leaking again, under high pressure.

Several things can cause an oil pan leak as mentioned in the helpful replies above. Also check to see if you're getting any blow-by creating pressure in the crankcase due to piston ring wear. Also a faulty PCV valve can cause a dripping leak at the main seals since if it doesn't pull a little vacuum and the drips runs down along the pan seal assuming it's the pan seal. Could be just a bad prep and sealant job, nick on the crank journal or they installed a dry crank seal without lube and it didn't get a chance to break-in or.. depends where the source of the leak is coming from?
Best regards,
Mike
 

2000_Black_RT10

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If NGR bothers you that much you bought the wrong car. Just wait until you drive one for a while and you'll find all sorts of little noises and vibrations that make up what the Viper is. What they are not is a luxury car and they are not exotics.

The new RUF CTR3 (approx. $600k USD) has a 6 speed sequential gearbox that whines with straight cut gears, and a recent magazine test driver / reviewer claims it adds a bit race car charm to it, listening to the music of whining gears. :2tu: I forget which magazine it was.. but here's the car below.. hey the article mentions Canada too eh' :eater: :D

RoadandTrack.com -- New Car Search - 2008 Ruf CTR3 (12/2008)
 
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Hoosier Daddy

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might not be the rear main seal, mine was one of the galley plugs leaking. At least that is what they told me and it does not collect oil there now.
 

Jack B

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I just bought Viper # 5. a B/W '96 GTS.

The car is in the shop getting the NGR oil "upgrade" per the Mopar TSB. I heard that this will help, but is there a way to eliminate it?

Also, Has anyone had issues with their oil pan leaking? The car had the gasket replaced 1k miles ago & now it's leaking again, under high pressure.

Thanks very much!

It has been discussed multiple times, the bolt holes for the oil pan bolts do not dead end in the block. The tapped holes are thru holes, therefore, in some cases the oil will run down the bolt threads and make it look like the pan is leaking. If that is the cause of the leak you must use a thread sealant on the oil pan bolts.
 
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ViperperfectionGTS

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cannot find leak around Oil pan Please HELP!!!

Hey guys,
The leak continues around the 4 bolts on the back of the oil pan.
Thus far we have:
Replaced the oil pan gasket twice (and sealed the screws)
replaced the rear main seal twice. Second time we thread locked the bolts.
Inspected the cam plug (which is dry as a bone)
Threadlocked the three bolts around the cam plug (which were dry)
The I drove the car home at low RPM's & no leak was present. I took it for a quick ride & shifted around 5k rpms a few times to get the pressure up & the leak is back. I cannot find the issue...Any other ideas??? I really appreciate the sugguestions thus far; as proof of that, I have replaced or sealed every bolt & replaced every item that you recommended. Any other ideas?

Thanks!!
 

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