NEW COUPE ORDERED, ANYONE ELSE?

[Andrew2KRT10]

Power, guys, Power. Your new coupes are going to be low on the power list very soon. Have you seen what is coming out over the next year or so? Sure you can do mods....but....

"It's over Johnny"

It doens't bother anyone that DC is NOT keeping up with the competition? I don't like buying auto magazines becasue the Viper is not longer written up as a performance threat. It's all Chevy and Ford. what a shame

 

[Z06J]

Just checking in. I have my name on the list.

 

[dirk989]

I agree with you Alice. Good post.

We also need to note that we are in a pretty amazing time for performance
and power. There is no 1 car that can claim to be the King. There are several,
including the Viper.

In the early 90's there wasn't anything out there with big performance.
There were a couple of very low production, high performance supercars
like the XJ220, but overall cars were slow, heavy and not oriented
towards performance.

The early Viper was a gutsy move. It took courage and a
lot of foresight to build it. But, let's be honest, it
didn't take a lot of engineering to make it the king of
the hill. Look at the competition. High powered sports
cars were cars that weighed 3500+ lbs and had 250 hp.

Back then becoming the King of the Hill only required
slapping an obscenely large and powerful engine into a
primitive car and stripping off as much weight as possible.

Today it is a different world. There are plenty of $100k,
$200k, $300k cars that are lightweight and high powered.
Braking, handling, tire technology etc are light years
beyond what they used to be. It is interesting that even
the very high dollar exotics perform similarly. None can
claim the throne. Even with all of the ridiculously high
dollar advances.

We can thank the Viper for driving all of these advances.

But....to expect DC to produce a car that can clearly be
called the king of the hill in todays landscape is just
wishful thinking. All of these cars are beyond the limits
of usuable street performance anyway. The cars that are
meant to be raced are usually modified. What a great
platform the Viper is for this.

Sure, I'd like to claim the testosterone award by driving
the car that magazines call the undisputed king of the
hill. However, I've got better things to spend $750k on
than a super Viper loaded with performance that I'll never
use.

Just my 2.5 cents.

Dirk

 

[ViperInBlack]

Write Your Congressman

Dirk:

That is an important historical reminder and reminder of how this whole renaissance in the American muscle car was re-ignited.

Here's something else:

What have we done to inspire an audience with D-C?

When you are concerned about a law, policy, zoning, etc., you contact your representative. You choose your words carefully, politiely, you draft a letter...sometimes a petition....that explains concerns and needs.

Is that what VCA members do with D-C? Do we structure a formal expression of concern, need, and expectancy? Did we draft a letter signed by members with their VIN and VCA numbers?

Or...did/do we spend a great deal of time denigrating the company, warning them of dire consequences, protesting their actions (or inactions) and expressing our concern regarding competitive edge?

And...if they visit at all...do we provide them with acrimony, criticism, belittlement, denigration and ridicule?

You have two friends who are in need. One comes and explains his dilemma, gives a rational accounting of the need and is polite/deferent.

The second friend comes, confronts you, is noxious, sarcastic, crude, rude, demanding and accusatory.

You have to decide which approach is most effective.

I would have gladly assisted in drafting a letter/petition outlining our needs and hopes.

Alice

 

[kaval]

Re: Write Your Congressman

Go for it Alice... I'm behind you...

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The Viper did sell on performance and aggressive styling. At VOI's (4 to 7) Dodge asked the owners what they liked and disliked and what they wanted in the next gen. Having attended all Dodge forums as the mentioned VOi's I can tell you that the majority of owners want More power, Less weight, Better Brakes, Better Handling represented 80-90 of what we wanted followed by creature features(power windows, dead pedal, cruse control, real soft top etc.). JRT also sent out a survey asking the owners what they wanted in the Gen III. I do not have the results of the survey but would bet the priority was More Power More Power, reduce weight, better brakes and handling followed by the creature features.

There may be newer owners who care less about performance and buy based on the Viper Image created by his History. The Viper image is Winning the Manufactures Championship in the FIA series to Winning Le Mans and ALMS championships all from 97 to 2001. The Performance image is kept alive via the Competition Coupe.

Bottom Line is its PERFORMANCE!

 

[ViperInBlack]

Fred:

You may have missed my point. To wit, posting attacks and criticism of the company does not encourage their meeting of our needs. If VCA becomes viewed as a group of malcontents, the factory will not seek input other than color choice.

Alice

 

[ViperInBlack]

Fred:

You may have missed my point. To wit, posting attacks and criticism of the company does not encourage their meeting of our needs. If VCA becomes viewed as a group of malcontents, the factory will not seek input other than color choice. What may/would have worked would be an organized campaign and drafted open-letter explaining the expectancies and planned participation (purchases) if those expectancies are met. Also, if the factory reads the forum, I doubt that they differentiate between VCA member posting and those merely lurking and sniping.

Alice

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Alice,

Thanks for your opinion!

Being honest is the most important element of communication in my opinion. If one chooses to take my comments as "attacks and criticism of the company" I can only say GOOD LUCK.

I think it is important to let DC know that they will lose their brand loyal(I only rent DC vehicles last rental was a Chrysler 300) Performance customers who have been buying their performance products. Having purchased five Vipers (96RT-SOLD, 97GTS-SOLD, 98GT2, 99ACR and a2003 SRT10), JEEPS Grand Cherokee LTD(96 V8; 98 V8-5.9) 2002 Overland V8 4.7HO, 2001 S500 and a 2005 SRT10 Ram Quad Cab. I will not buy another Viper as long as it is slower than a corvette! I hope DC has a solution to keep the Viper as "King of The Hill" A diet with a few more HP will do the trick.

Do not try to put me in the same as those(there were are and many who do) who complained about the GEN III SRT10 styling. The styling was never a question if it is Faster with better brakes and better handling I will buy it! I would like the NEW coupe to look more like the CC but more important than styling is Performance. My son saw a Picture of the New Viper and said "Dad you have to get one". I told him the new Viper is to slow! He is five and a half and understands that a Viper being second to a Corvette will not end up in Dad's garage.

My opinions may or may not be popular but I am not running for Office! Honesty is what counts to me, being politely correct is for politicians!

 

[ViperInBlack]

Fred:

You misunderstood. I was not referring to your style. I was merely stating that corporate America is a political arena and a political approach would have better served us. We can be acknowledged by D-C or ignored. I posit the opinion that we would have been better served by approaching them with an organized and appropriate proposal and list of those changes, progress we sought and for which we would be loyal customers. My greatest concern is using an approach which would accomplish the mission.


Alice

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Alice,

Corporate Detroit(CD not to confused with DC) lost its market share to Tokyo by not listening to its customers. How? CD tried to sell what it wanted to make vs make what the consumer wanted! In the 70's I saw the wave of cars and other products from across the Pacific dominate the consumer market. Are talking about teh same Corporate America that lost the electronics dominance. How many TV manufactures are now in the US today vs 1970? Market share from DC vs Japan 1970 vs today. If DC fails to listen to its customers history will repeat.

Dodge's Relationship Marketing approach(Called the Viper Club of America) has created thousands of loyal customers by asking what we wanted and delivering. Bob Lutz is now smiling as he puffs on his cigar! He said he had something coming to beat the Viper and I guess some thought that was an ideal rumor, WRONG!

I want to continue buying Vipers and hope DC gives the SRT guys the tools they need to replay the Ode to the Viper with the Corvette missing two Big Holes!

My voice as well as the voice of others from our region is now in Detroit. I think our voices will be heard loud and clear.

 

[Mopar426]

That's correct: Porsche and Ferrari sell based upon image (style, class, wealth, and, for Ferrari, inacessibility).

I have seen no confirmed data from Dodge that the Viper has sold solely, or even chiefly, from a purely performance platform.

I do believe that there are a substantial number of purchasers who would buy the Viper over the Corvette solely on its being eye candy.

I speculate that the demographics would show that many individuals buy the Viper for its rarity and unique appearance. Those individuals would never consider a Z06 even if it were 650 HP although they may consider a lesser performing Porsche Cabriolet.

Now, I do believe it is highly probable that those who buy the Viper based upon performance are more likely to retain their vehicles for an extended period or own multiple Vipers.

From the factory's standpoint, retaining your Viper for many years is fine as long as it leads you to buy other D-C vehicles and/or recommend them to friends, family and business associates.

Those who buy solely based upon appearance may sell/trade quickly after noting its rude road manners. From the viewpoint of D-C, this rapid turn over is not necessarily negative.

I think that the Z06 is a threat to some Viper owners, but many owners and prospective buyers would not be swayed from a Viper purchase by a lesser costing Corvette, with its generic appearance, merely due to equal or greater performance.

In toto, I think the Viper has a longevity in its exclusivity, and I suspect that the SRT team knows what it is doing.

Alice

I agree on a couple points a Viper has in NO WAY the build quality of a Ferrari or Porsche. All you have to do is open the door and look inside and see the sea of plastic. Do the same to any 911 or Ferrari and everything is leather. Not trying to take anything away from the snake, just stating the obvious.

 

[29OUTLAW]

Hey Mopar426

What are the chances of you owning a car built in this millennium?

 

[onerareviper]

THE ONLY WAY 'voices' are heard is sales figures... Period... And with the current design and performance levels, if at least one or both are not changed, I fear the Viper will die a slow death. Similar to the NSX.

Being realistic, the design will probably not change for many years. So we are left with performance increases. I hope PVO has some big news to announce. I can't fathom them rolling over and dying, but I'm not so confident after the Coupe release.

 

[Toby]

THE ONLY WAY 'voices' are heard is sales figures...

Exactly. Everything else is just blowing smoke up everyones rear end.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hope DC is looking at GDI for our V10 or perhaps some other tricks to improve HP and reduce emissions.

 

[Mamba man steve]

my only thing is HOW MUCH, i am on my 3rd Viper, 2nd o4 srt-10. i might order but what is the $$$$$ and any mod in horse power/torque.