Oem Alignment Or Not?

[Trailertrash]

Good Afternoon Viper owners. I have a question regarding the oem alignment settings for my 2000GTS. My car will never see the track. I have noticed the rear OEM tires have most of there wear on the inside egdge.Does the oem setup cause this? The car is mainly driven for fun with an occasional burst down a twisty road. I will be installing new Piot tires prior to a road trip from Indiana to the Florida Keys, then up the east coast to New York. Is there an improvement over the OEM alignment for strickly street and highway use?
Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[dave6666]

You keep referring to the alignment on your car as the OEM settings. You know it has never had a subsequent alignment why? And that this suspected OEM alignment has never changed why?

Point is you have whatever you have for a reason I believe you do not know, and you should make it what you want or need.

 

[Trailertrash]

I agree. Just curious if the tire wear on the inside is common among the vipers? The alignment has never been touched since new. Car has 21,000 miles now.

 

[dave6666]

When I bought my '01 it had worn out tires on the back with even wear. I replaced them with Pilot Sports and the wear continues to be even. I had the alignment checked a few thou after that, which once again I suspect to be the factory settings (but do not know), and it was in spec. We made no adjustments.

I would suspect yours is off with that tire wear. I wonder if someone lowered it with springs or something and did not follow up with the required alignment?

 

[JonB]

Good Afternoon Viper owners. I have a question regarding the oem alignment settings for my 2000GTS. My car will never see the track. I have noticed the rear OEM tires have most of there wear on the inside egdge.Does the oem setup cause this? The car is mainly driven for fun with an occasional burst down a twisty road. I will be installing new Piot tires prior to a road trip from Indiana to the Florida Keys, then up the east coast to New York. Is there an improvement over the OEM alignment for strickly street and highway use?
Thanks for any help you can provide.

There are many HANDLING reasons to alter your alignment specs AWAY from OE specs. And in the past (Gen 1) Dodge even changed the OE specs! The OE specs achieve a very flat-footed stance, designed for maximum tire wear, and maximum MPG. NOT THE BEST HANDLING.

Which do you want? Precise, responsive HANDLING or great tire mileage? Call to discuss ( mondays can be too busy for a long chat....) If you hit any road hazards hard in the past 21K miles, your alignment is NOT OE any longer. They DONT last forever!

The 2000 GTS is a LOT better than a Gen 1, but still can be a rut-tracking, seam-following handful to drive when aligned to OE specs, ESPECIALLY if riding on old, (HARD) tires, regardless of their tread depth.

How many miles do you drive per year? I prefer better handling, and tires that dont live as long.......if your OE alignemnt also has the OE tires, you are in scary shape.....

 

[dave6666]

I would certainly think that on a car as you say, will never see the track and is for the occasional twisty road, that the preference would be toward optimal life out of your expensive rear (and front) tires. Or in other words, the OEM settings will work just fine. Yeah, not only are the tires expensive, but so is a good alignment. Might want to get the setup you want the first time for economics.

Some will note that the Pilot Sport tires will track the pavement grooves, as I have Pilot Sports and my car does that to a degree. It has also been reported that the PS2, which is the tire that is available now, reduces this groove tracking phenomena. So once again, with the new tires already working in your favor coupled with the driving style you say you will have, I would go factory settings and save the dime.

 

[Payne]

What are recommended alignment specs for a street car with 1-2 autoXes a year? Honestly, the stock alignment scares the bejesus out of me above 100mph.

Driven less than 2,000 miles a year, so tire wear is in no way shape or form an issue.

 

[Catwood]

You' ve got 21K miles on an 8 year old car. Put a reasonalbe amount of camber in it, say 2* front and 1* in the rear. I'd still toe it out ever so slightly in the front and in on the rear. With the amount of miles driven the tires will get hard (and dangerous) before they cord.


Actually, I'd go more...I'm pulling it back slightly for you

 

[Trailertrash]

Thanks all for your input!!! I will be having the new PS2 installed tomorrow with an alignment performed by the dealer. I will keep the OEM settings as I do enjoy the daily drive.

 

[dave6666]

Honestly, the stock alignment scares the bejesus out of me above 100mph.

Why? *** are you driving on?

With the amount of miles driven the tires will get hard (and dangerous) before they cord.

I'm not trying to discount the experts on that subject as there is good published info, but I think that "old" tires being "dangerous" is over rated. I mean, show me accidents making headlines on any frequency?

 

[Catwood]

I'm not trying to discount the experts on that subject as there is good published info, but I think that "old" tires being "dangerous" is over rated. I mean, show me accidents making headlines on any frequency?

I can't. I'm a new tire salesman by trade so I'm really just pushing tires. So, go ahead and drive on them until they are 10 years old and hard as rocks. The "cold tire" deal is a myth also. I suggest the next cold day, say under 50*, that you go take a spirited drive down a narrow road in the forest with tires that are both cold and old. Get back to us on how well that works. I know how well lap times improve with that set up. Makes me a better driver for sure. YMMV

 

[dave6666]

I can't. I'm a new tire salesman by trade so I'm really just pushing tires. So, go ahead and drive on them until they are 10 years old and hard as rocks. The "cold tire" deal is a myth also. I suggest the next cold day, say under 50*, that you go take a spirited drive down a narrow road in the forest with tires that are both cold and old. Get back to us on how well that works. I know how well lap times improve with that set up. Makes me a better driver for sure. YMMV

Thanks for the offer, but I'm smart enough to not do stupid stuff like that. And for those of us that do not track their cars, the enhanced lap times using newer tires is not important.

Personally, I think old tires are a blast to drive on. I just wouldn't do it under maximum performance conditions.

Also... Where can you find a forest and temperatures lower than 50 in TEXAS?

 

[Zrxpilot]

^Fwiw, I raced bikes at BIR on the road course for several years. I could tell a dramatic difference from my last years left-over rubber ridden the first weekend of the season and fresh rubber bought the next weekend. The difference was sliding the rear thru turn 3 and not being able to do it at all. New tires produced a full two second quicker lap time and was considerably less work. Tires are everything. This was even more apparent racing Yamaha two stroke carts on the short track. As I understand it, tires only have X amount of heat cyles before the the durometer levels raise. This is irreversable and also dependent on shelf life and proper storage. Ultimatly you want the freshest manufacture date you can get. Never raced a car on a road course but presumably the same issues would be apparent. Regarding accidents, I would have to believe that tires are probably a higher accident contributor than alcohol. You just dont hear about it because often the tires look fine to the naked eye.

 

[Mr U-2]

There are many HANDLING reasons to alter your alignment specs AWAY from OE specs. And in the past (Gen 1) Dodge even changed the OE specs! The OE specs achieve a very flat-footed stance, designed for maximum tire wear, and maximum MPG. NOT THE BEST HANDLING.

Which do you want? Precise, responsive HANDLING or great tire mileage? Call to discuss ( mondays can be too busy for a long chat....) If you hit any road hazards hard in the past 21K miles, your alignment is NOT OE any longer. They DONT last forever!

The 2000 GTS is a LOT better than a Gen 1, but still can be a rut-tracking, seam-following handful to drive when aligned to OE specs, ESPECIALLY if riding on old, (HARD) tires, regardless of their tread depth.

How many miles do you drive per year? I prefer better handling, and tires that dont live as long.......if your OE alignemnt also has the OE tires, you are in scary shape.....

Jon B. You are so right about the rut tracking seam following handling oddity. I do track occasionally and although I had my local Tech in Florida adjust it a couple of years ago for the track he reset it for the street following the track event. I haven't changed it and my 2001 still tracks along ruts enough for me to worry a cop will pull me over...and I can hear me trying to explain all this Viper rut tracking stuff to a cop....any suggested settings for daily driving?

 

[Catwood]

Personally, I think old tires are a blast to drive on. I just wouldn't do it under maximum performance conditions.

Based on that logic you should love driving in the rain with wet brakes.

Personally, I'm not so much at putting my Viper at risk. YMMV though....happy trails

 

[JonB]

Low-miles drivers should 'ditch' old tires BEFORE THEY DITCH YOU.....TWO more sad and embarassed guys here will post very soon, having totalled their cars THIS WEEK and attributing cold/old tires. The story has been told here many DOZENS of times. FACT.

You cannot "SAVE" your car if / when the unexpected happens on old-cold tires. FACT. Sombody or something ELSE (an animal) will do 'something stupid'...so you don't have to. Problem is, they do it right in front of your Viper

Trash: I think you misread me..... the DAILY DRIVE is replete with bobbing and weaving. You will enjoy daily drive much MORE on your new PS2 and more STILL if you employ a MILD performance-alignment as mentioned. And echoed by Cat and others. Fact.

'Optimal Tire Use' is BAD if it means you are driving on old-hard tires with decent tread, trying to eke out more hard-rubber miles! SCARY !!!

Payne: Gen 1-2 have SPORT SHIMS that can be pulled out specifically for AutoX ! Put em back in AFTER! AMAZING snappy turn-in. (Temporary) Yes, The stock alignement CAN be scary on certain road conditions, esp where studded tires are used! FACT. A mild performance alignment will be SAFER, with more rewarding handling as the plusses.....and more front tire wear as a minor cost. FACT. ***I prefer better handling, and can sacrifice front tire wear, so they dont last twice as long as rears. (Planned Useage to go away at the same time) But thats just me.....I like better control, not longer tire life.***

MR U-2.......... see above! (Lockheed U-2? WOW! )

ZRX: EXACTLY! Spot-On, Bike or Viper....rubber is rubber. WHAT HE SAID !!!


Catwood: 100% Correct, and FUNNY, too!

As a newbee, you need to choose where you take your advice. Facts are Facts, innuendo and repartee are not. You have more contact patch on your two hands and two feet than your Viper has rubber meeting the road. Anyone (for self amusement ?) who disputes that old tires are less safe, and then espouses factory aligning old tires to save $, is, well, "lacking clues" ....and doing newbees a huge disservice. We dismantle wrecked Vipers for a living.....the vast majority have BAD tires or mis-matched tires.

This has been a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT based on facts and 15 years Viper experience...not 15 months.......

 

[dave6666]

Guess we know who the tire salesman is now!

Actually Jon, since I know your previous post is another comical post about me, my experience with cars goes well beyond all the unsubstantiated claims you can make about me. I know what I know, you know what you know, and that's why there's more than one keyboard on this forum.

But you are correct about people getting to make the choice about who they listen to here. And I'm listening right now about the claim you just made above that there were 2 cars wrecked this week that had old tires. I would love to see that information from those owners. I often find posts around here making claims with no supporting facts. That's what makes me listen to what someone has to say. When they can substantiate their claim(s). Show me the data! Go on. Show me some.

 

[JonB]

......And I'm listening right now about the claim you just made above that there were 2 cars wrecked this week that had old tires. I would love to see that information from those owners......

Why? *** are you driving on? I'm not trying to discount the experts on that subject as there is good published info, but I think that "old" tires being "dangerous" is over rated. I mean, show me accidents....

....Personally, I think old tires are a blast to drive on.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
In one post you mention 'good published info' and in the same thread you then dismiss it.
Which is your real opinon? I should not waste my time honoring your request, but newbees need to know I am 100% truthful. [unlike those who self-entertain prolifically here by being 90% sarcastic for the fun of it....]

For many-dozens of times, I am again working with two more owners who just wrecked this week. BOTH have stated to me that yes, their tires were old. One probably will not post........here is the other:
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/619009-my-viper-now-dead.html

His quote to me in part is: (needed new tires, they were hard). And I will substantiate this quote with a $1000 wager if you will only put up $100. PLEASE ! Now, go post something funny in their wreck-thread.....

So, please go and enjoy (and brag about) driving your old, hard tires...but your suggestion to newbees that tire age and performance does not matter is dangerous...and YOU walk away smirking...... You should keep reviewing TOASTERS and CHEESESAUCE and ICE CREAM MAKERS..... and skip the tire advice. The VCA should delete dangerous-incorrect advice....

 

[dave6666]

From the Toastmaster Cheesecake General in Texas. Whoops... Rice King too!

Anyway, someone writes in seeming to be dissatisfied with their rear tires wearing on the inside. AKA, uneven wear. See that post below and make your own judgment about what the guy that started this thread was interested in. I've hi-lighted what I consider to be an important area of his post.

Good Afternoon Viper owners. I have a question regarding the oem alignment settings for my 2000GTS. My car will never see the track. I have noticed the rear OEM tires have most of there wear on the inside egdge.Does the oem setup cause this? The car is mainly driven for fun with an occasional burst down a twisty road. I will be installing new Piot tires prior to a road trip from Indiana to the Florida Keys, then up the east coast to New York. Is there an improvement over the OEM alignment for strickly street and highway use?
Thanks for any help you can provide.

Seeing as I can see above what I am asking if others can too, is that this guy wants an alignment that gives even tire wear. So I post the following below. I've hi-lighted a critical part of that post.

I would certainly think that on a car as you say, will never see the track and is for the occasional twisty road, that the preference would be toward optimal life out of your expensive rear (and front) tires. Or in other words, the OEM settings will work just fine. Yeah, not only are the tires expensive, but so is a good alignment. Might want to get the setup you want the first time for economics.

Some will note that the Pilot Sport tires will track the pavement grooves, as I have Pilot Sports and my car does that to a degree. It has also been reported that the PS2, which is the tire that is available now, reduces this groove tracking phenomena. So once again, with the new tires already working in your favor coupled with the driving style you say you will have, I would go factory settings and save the dime.

The ending results for the same guy that had the original concern about tire wear and alignment. Once again hi-lighted for your viewing pleasure.

Thanks all for your input!!! I will be having the new PS2 installed tomorrow with an alignment performed by the dealer. I will keep the OEM settings as I do enjoy the daily drive.

Hmm.

Wow.

I am not stunned.

 

[Martin2000GTS]

Hey John B,

Not to hijack the tread, but can you give me the alignment specs your talking about where the front tires would have a some what aggressive setup making the front and rears wear at the same pace? I just bought the PS2's from you that are on back order, would like to give my shop the specs.
Thanks
Martin

 

[GTS Bruce]

Front to rear tire wear? depends on how hard you brake or accelerate. I have an 01 on PS2. Very happy with my alignment. Far better handling than OEM. Front zerro toe,stock caster,3/4 deg neg camber. Rear minimal toe in,1/2 deg neg camber. For a serious track day you could pull the shims for 1&3/4 deg neg camber front. GTS Bruce

 

[Martin2000GTS]

thanks GTS Bruce!

 

[Mr U-2]

Thanks...Paul (Mr. U-2)