OK, here are 2 really stupid questions, ready?

[Daffy]

I haven't seen any stupid questions, so I thought I'd do my part with these two.

1. Why does there have to be sooooo much room in the wheel wells on the viper (SRT or GenII for that matter). The SRT has 19 inch rims, sweet, but it still looks like it's setup for a 4x4 event with all the space between the top of the tire & the fender line. Why can't they design a look more like a BMW wheel well, like an M5 or 3, where the top of the tire is right up to the wheel well & fender line - for the "slammed" look?

2. Really stupid question here: With so many guys/gals out there making way over 530 rwhp & 500 rwtq from simple exhaust, and bolt ons, why is the SRT engine so re-designed with more cubes, new intake, etc., and only 50 more crank hp & no material change in torque - in fact I'd like to know how they kept the torque figure down to 500, although I've seen some #'s with torque in the 525 range, still, it just seems low for the significant performance evolution being done.

These are just meant as stupid questions I've thought about & looking for input. I'm still on the fence about my pending order, so I'm not pro or con yet.

David.

 

[Venom Lover]

Ok, I'll give this a whack.

1. So that you can lower the car yourself to get the "slammed" look. No seriously, how about because the clearance on the front spoiler is like 4" to begin with (Gen II numbers -- sorry I have no idea on the SRT), so lowering the car leaves unrealistically little clearance. (Stupid answer to your stupid question

)

2. Please elaborate how I can get "way over 530 rwhp and 500 rwtq" with exhaust and bolt-ons. Especially with creampuff-era cams such as your 2000 or my 2001. With bolt-ons, I don't think you or I could expect more than 440 rwhp and 475 rwtq. Maybe you mean at the flywheel, not rear-wheel? Ok, so let's say you mean flywheel. 13% drive train loss, that's 505 fwhp and 545 ft-lbs. Whatever. Let's use my numbers.

The SRT at the LA Auto show had a card saying "500 bhp, 525 ft-lbs". So your point is even a creampuff like yours or mine with exhaust mods will exceed Dodge's current claim for the SRT, so what's the big deal?

All I can say is I agree with this observation, unless the SRT turns out to be massively underrated in performance, or unless it responds equally well to exhaust mods. However, what I've been reading on this forum says exhaust mods will be non-trivial, and who knows of how much benefit.

That being said, Mr. Brunton would argue that dyno numbers don't tell the whole story. It's the setup of the car that matters as well. And that is true. So a modest gain in dyno performance may still result in half a second improvement in the 1/4 mile, seconds around a road course, 3.7 sec 0-60, etc.

We can only hope!!!

 

[Daffy]

V.L.,

That's a typo on the 530 rwhp, supposed to be 430 rwhp, I got a little excited I guess. There are so many Gen II 's out there doing; exhaust, filters, tubes, rockers, and polished TB's - all an afternoons work. And getting in the 440-475 rwhp range, and rwtq over 500. That's impressive to me. I'm totally in agreement about there being a lot more to perf than HP, & I know the SRT could possibly spank older snakes with more power, I dunno, but especially with torque, it just seems like they must have TRIED to keep down to 525, with what it seems capable of.

Oh. on the lowering, I hear ya, but I meant designing the fender lips to come down lower, not lowering the car any further. For example, my 540i sport looked slammed, the fender lips came right down to the low profile tires, very tight look. But I could get my floor jack under it no problem. The viper, not even close to getting that jack under there, so it's quite a bit lower to the ground then the bimmer, but has about 4 more inches between the tire top and the fender lip in the back. I'm just wondering since style IS important, why they don't design the fender lips closer, or is there a reason? There are so many examples of performance cars with nice looking tight wheel wells, and the viper has wheel wells that look like my 99 Mustang Cobra (total 4x4 look).

David.

 

[Mike Brunton]

As to your point #1, I agree completely. My BMW looks great with the tires filling up the wheel wells. I never understood why it seems only BMW can get this part right. It's not just the Viper that looks like a 4x4 - Vettes, Mustangs, Camaros, they all do. Maybe it's a BMW identity thing? It is a design issue however - lowering the car lowers the front fascia and suspension travel, so if a car isn't designed to be "low" it can't be replicated by lowering without affecting the aforementioned handling/clearance.

On your 2nd point, I am not sure there were other ways for Dodge to get that HP out of the current motor without significant redesign. A less restrictive exhaust is not an option because it would not meet noise requirements. Factory headers would probably add too much cost and cause excessive underhood heat. I think the easiest and most cost effective way to get more HP was simply to bump up the displacement a bit. That is a good thing for us, because if DC had "used up" some of the margin we tap into for our big exhaust gains, we probably wouldn't get much from exhaust work on the SRT. I have heard and fully expect that the SRT will respond just as well if not better than any prior Viper to exhaust work. Let's just say for arguments sake that the car dynoes about 450RWHP stock. With K&N's and an airbox/intake it's in the 460RWHP range. With a full exhaust and headers let's say it gets to the 520 range. Who wouldn't be really happy with over 500 at the wheels with minor mods?

Now, forget about all the #'s for a second.... I would argue that 50hp isn't that small of an upgrade. 50hp was the difference between the GenI and GenII Vipers. 50hp is the difference between the '02 Vette coupe and '02 Z06. The GenII Viper is a good 1/2 second quicker and 5mph+ faster in the 1/4 than the previous one. The '02 Z06 is a good 3/4 second quicker than the same year coupe, if not more, and it easily gets 7+MPH more in the 1/4. If the SRT runs 11.5@125, I would be very impressed. One of the biggest problems with us doing mods and "getting 50HP" or whatever, is that sometimes these gains don't show up all across the RPM range, and in addition, a 50hp gain in peak HP for the SRT might not show even bigger gains at other parts of the RPM range.

We will see how the SRT does, but I expect it to be alot faster than the GTS, and have just as much potential for modification as the GTS - if not more.