Paxton and Fluidyne or Alan's

[Sweet Ride]

Anyone running a Paxton and a Fluidyne or Alan's radiator in their car?

If so, were there any fitment issues or modifications other than what is covered in the "Illiustrated Upgrades" secion of the site?

Any comments would be appreciated.

Specs: Daily driver including AZ summers (110 degrees +), upgraded to newer/larger fan module, 170 degree t-stat. I'm not remotely interested in an RDR radiator, so please hold your RDR comments for a different thread.

Thanks!

 

[plumcrazy]

i forget which one my car has to be honest, but i think its the alans. no fitment issues

i know its not a junk RDR unit

 

[2MANYTOYS]

I've got a Fluidyne. Seems to work well. I haven't had any problems.

 

[dave6666]

I can't help you with the Paxton fitment aspect, but my understanding is the Fluidyne is 1" thicker than stock and the direction of increase is toward the the engine of course. Alan's remains the factory dimension in thickness.

Since I want to for my car to retain the OE air box, the Fluidyne is out of the question because the box has to go. Since you will be S/C I would think that if you can get that monster Fluidyne in there, do it. Mr. 110+ degree guy...

 

[Simms]

No problem here with Alans.

 

[vipzilla]

call todd at ac performance 951 696 0500 he has a incredible triple pass radiator for s/c cars and his price is better then the comp.

 

[dave6666]

call todd at ac performance 951 696 0500 he has a incredible triple pass radiator for s/c cars and his price is better then the comp.

Does it fit in the stock location w/o modifying anything?

 

[Sweet Ride]

I can't help you with the Paxton fitment aspect, but my understanding is the Fluidyne is 1" thicker than stock and the direction of increase is toward the the engine of course. Alan's remains the factory dimension in thickness.

Since I want to for my car to retain the OE air box, the Fluidyne is out of the question because the box has to go. Since you will be S/C I would think that if you can get that monster Fluidyne in there, do it. Mr. 110+ degree guy...

I'm thinking that 1" extra could cause problems. I just installed the newer fan module and the air intake for the Paxton doesn't quite fit like it used too with the old fan. The newer fan is taller but thinner depth-wise. That extra 1" could be the deal breaker. I'll have to do some measuring tonight.

110 and that's at 10 AM... I'll take the dry AZ heat vs that humid Texas heat any day!

call todd at ac performance 951 696 0500 he has a incredible triple pass radiator for s/c cars and his price is better then the comp.

Thanks! I'm going to call him today.

As an aside I would like you all to analyze the following quotes from two web sites:

Alan's Triple Pass Radiator:
We Use 2 Cores Instead of 3: 3 cores can restrict air flow by cavitation, (cavitation can force air out around the front of the car, instead of allowing it to flow through the radiator) Restricted air flow makes it more difficult for the fan to pull the air through when stopped or moving slow. "Less Efficient"
Also 3 cores are pretty much touching each other so heat can build up. If they are not perfectly aligned it is more difficult for air to pass through. (not an issue with 2 cores) By the time the air is passing the 2nd core it is has heated up and has lost cooling efficiency as it reaches the 3rd core, then the coolant moves into the opposite tank and back to the motor.

Triple Pass (means coolant crosses radiator 3 times before returning to motor)

Roe Racing Fluidyne Radiator:
The factory Viper radiator is a two core, with each core being only 5/8" thick. This Fluidyne Racing radiator has three cores with each core being 1" thick!! It's a single pass design which is proven to provide better cooling characteristics than multi pass units which require higher pressure to maintain the same flow rate. Fluidyne is among the best in the performance and racing industry when it comes to radiators. For track events, or operation in hot climates, their replacement Viper radiator allows the engine to run cooler due to the improved coolant volume, design efficiency and the superior heat transfer characteristics of aluminum. A must for all 94 to 02 Vipers!

So, one is touting 2 cores as superior, the other as 3. One says a triple pass is better, the other says a single pass is better.

Does anyone have experience, science, or definitive numbers as to which is superior?

I would assume that at a given flow rate and/or system pressure there is only so much to be gained with the radiator. I have already increased airflow (larger fan), so which radiator will dissipate heat more rapidly? Will a multi-pass radiator have more pressure buildup and work the water pump harder?

Thanks to all that responded so far!

 

[dave6666]

To reply to the coolant flow versus air flow question...

My '01 with either an aftermarket aluminum radiator (not Alan's or Fluidyne) or the factory radiator will start to see a temperature rise at speeds below 50 mph. Or will cool much better at speeds above 50 for the inverse.

I have the Roe duct and fresh 50/50 ELC red with Redline WW.

So what do I get from that 50 mph business? Airflow is critical. The radiator is a air to fluid exchanger and air movement is king.

Do they get the fins lined up perfectly to maximize air flow on the Fluidyne 3 core? Good question.

In regards to the preheat concern of the first core warming the second core warming the third etc, some practical experience here. With my AC on my coolant temp goes up slightly. With the fan forced on why would that be huh? For starters if I'm running the AC it's 90 to 110 out and the fan is probably on anyway. The purpose of the AC condenser up in front of the radiator it to remove heat from the freon. I've shot mine with my IR before and it varies from 150 to 175 degrees. So I'm preheating the air to the 2 coolant coils with 175 degree air. Not quite the same scenario as the Fluidyne triple pass but if the air to the 3rd row of coils is getting near internal coolant temp then it will not be very effective.

Pump back pressure will rob hp from your engine but not much else. Fluid speed through the system is important though as too fast and it will not cool in the radiator and too slow it won't exit the engine fast enough. These fluid speeds could be further analyzed in regards to laminar versus turbulent flow through the radiator channels but that is starting to get heavy on the engineering. It all matters though.

A practical exercise that I have done at lower speeds - below 50 - is to drop it down a gear to raise engine rpm and pump rpm. We can assume flow rate will increase as well as engine friction and heat generated. Sometimes my temp will go up and sometimes it will not. In either case the change is not significant compared to getting the car moving faster.

So my summary is... Air flow should be your number one concern. Whichever unit lets more air through is the one you want. Tough to measure that without having one of each to experiment with though.

 

[vipzilla]

Does it fit in the stock location w/o modifying anything?

yes it does

 

[dave6666]

Just talked to Todd. Theirs is made by PWR. The upper mounts to the core support are metal bolts not aluminum studs like Alan's. The fan on the PWR does not come pre-positioned, ready to mount like on Alan's though. You must do some slight trimming on the fan and then install rivet nuts into the upper and lower rails to mount it. The lower pins for the rubber mounts are ready to go. Stock air box fits right back on top. All welded construction. Price is $675.

As a guy that owns his own rivet nut tool, coupled with a vendor that lives stateside, I might just have found a new radiator.

 

[jay01m]

Forget the Fluidyne Radiators folks. Unless you can find a source that has one in stock you're SOL. I found out from Fluidyne that they are not making the radiator right now and currently don't have plans to start making them again due there being no market for it. I also looked everywhere, calling a dozen vendors nationwide with no joy.

If anyone looking into a new radiator can wait a few weeks, I've found a radiator shop who is rebuilding my stock one with a new core. Instead of 2 rows of tubes, it will have 3 rows of tubes, making the thickness equal to the tanks. Also, since we're using the same tanks as stock, the number of passes will be same as stock (single or triple, I don't know). Not sure what the final cost is going to be, but I've been promised it will not exceed $600. I'm waiting to see how it turns out, but I've been told it will fit right back into the car with no modifications, and will cool effectively up to at least 1000 HP. I'm optimistic since this shop has been around for 34 years and specialize in auto and industrial radiators. I'll post on my experience once I get the radiator back in the car and tested out.

 

[dave6666]

I have also inquired with a local shop about that - a Craig Manufacturing Co core - and anyway, if it is copper it might even work better than aluminum due to the better heat transfer of copper versus aluminum.

Having difficulty connecting with this right guy at this shop though. May just do the PWR.

Thermal Conductivity of some common Materials

 

[GoCanes1]

I have the radiator from Todd @ A&C in my Roe GTS and it works great. In the valley here in Socal we see normal temps over 100 in the summer and she runs great and cool.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Fluidyne and OE airbox in mine.....

Just shortened the intake tubes slightly and moved the airbox back about an inch. job done.....

 

[dave6666]

Fluidyne and OE airbox in mine.....

Just shortened the intake tubes slightly and moved the airbox back about an inch. job done.....

Which means you could be sucking a tad bit of hot engine compartment air now...

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Doh good point.... I got it..................Not if you drive fast enough......

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

We have our Gen1 kits finished this week. Were building them a little different and they will be a 100% drop in replacement. Triple pass, made locally to our specs specifically for us. These keep our vipers running cool on 100 degree days. On Gen1, we usually switch to the gen2 fan and use our digital controller to keep the gen1's running around 190 in the heat, And it can be fully controlled if a different temp is wanted.

We have all gen2 and gen3 drop ins ready as well

Todd
A&C Performance
951 696 0500

THe Gen2 fan install is a few hours work.

The Gen1 on the other hand will require more time and is much more difficult to do. Just expect it

 

[dave6666]

Digital fan control??? Would love more detail! Email sent.

 

[Sweet Ride]

Digital fan control??? Would love more detail! Email sent.

Forget the email! Post it for all to see!

 

[plumcrazy]

Yes please post more info on the controller

 

[dave6666]

I did get a reply to the email I sent them. Kind of a "fuzzy" reply...

Anyway, did not sound like he has a commercial product available. But Todd if you're watching I think there are some lookers here...

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

We actually do have a commercial product available. We are finishing the details as the testing has been done. We can make you look forward to summer again. Just add a thermostat, our modified electric module and your done. More info tro come soon. and Also it will work on any year viper.

Todd
A&C Performance

 

[dave6666]

I'm all ears. I have installing an aluminum radiator (maybe your PWR ) on my summer mod list.

Which starts tomorrow here in I think...

 

[Vital Velocity]

I need to get a radiator before summer....in houston my viper just gets to hot for me to be comfortable with....

 

[99 R/T 10]

There are a couple radiators int he classifieds:

Gen I/II Fluidyne 4" core radiaitor, NEW - ViperClub Classifieds

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Just talked to Todd. Theirs is made by PWR.

I have a PWR triple-pass in my car and my particular unit is WAY thicker than Stock. Sweet Ride was over to my house a couple of weeks ago and there is no way my radiator would fit in his car - his Paxton blower is way too close to the radiator. Perhaps there are more than one version from PWR (I got mine from DC Performance).

I pity someone swapping radiators on a Paxton car. The way I got my radiator in was to take the throttle bodies off and tilt the top of the radiator back until it hit the intake manifold. Not going to be able to do that with the blower there. I think the hood hinges are going to have to come off and that sounds like a nightmare.

 

[dave6666]

I have a PWR triple=pass in my car and my particular unit is WAY thicket than Stock. Sweet Ride was over to my house a couple of weeks ago and there is no way my radiator would fit in hos car - his Paxton blower is way too close to the radiator. Perhaps there are more than one version from PWR (I got mine from DC Performance).

I pity someone swapping radiators on a Paxton car. The way I got my radiator in was to take the throttle bodies off and tilt the top of the radiator back until it hit the intake manifold. Not going to be able to do that with the blower there. I think the hood hinges are going to have to come off and that sounds like a nightmare.

When I talked to Todd at AC he said the thickness is the same. I seem to remember him saying 57mm, which is 2-1/4". The 3 core Fluidyne is 4" or so. DC may have a 3 core, whereas the AC is a 2 core PWR can likely build them as you ask them to.

Anyway, pulling the hood hinges is a deal breaker for me. I'd rather push a Mustang

 

[RedEnuf93]

I've had already 2 RD rad's....and I am in the market for a new radiator.
After viewing all this and reading more, I may actually call JonB and get a stock one.

How much "worse" the stock radiator really is??? Being copper, it conducts heat much better.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sweet Ride]

I have a PWR triple=pass in my car and my particular unit is WAY thicket than Stock. Sweet Ride was over to my house a couple of weeks ago and there is no way my radiator would fit in hos car - his Paxton blower is way too close to the radiator. Perhaps there are more than one version from PWR (I got mine from DC Performance).

I pity someone swapping radiators on a Paxton car. The way I got my radiator in was to take the throttle bodies off and tilt the top of the radiator back until it hit the intake manifold. Not going to be able to do that with the blower there. I think the hood hinges are going to have to come off and that sounds like a nightmare.

If I had to SWAG it, I'd say your radiator is 1"-1.5" thicker than stock. It may work with my set-up if I moved the intake and filter back to the stock position but with the current set up, there's no way it would work.

When I swapped out my stock radiator for another stock radiator, I got by without removing any major components. If I go with anything thicker, I may be in for a long day at the shop.

I have yet to take my old stock radiator to my radiator shop to see what they can do. I'm hoping they can make it thicker but within the same frame space that it currently uses. It looks as if the stock radiator has about .5" of space that is currently not being used. I'm hoping the shop can use that space to some advantage. I'll check back in when I have some more solid answers.

Thanks again for letting me cut those templates. I'm thinking I may make the pieces out of carbon fiber so that I don't add a bunch of weight. I'll keep you updated on this as well.