Perplexed

[AJ02]

Well, my 2002 GTS has been running steadily hotter the last few months and I've been having some trouble with the radiator fan circuit. The car has been running around 220-230 all the time, even when it's only about 86 degrees out. The last couple days it wants to get up to almost 240 just cruising down the highway. I think the fan issues are stemming from the hotter temps making the fan run all the time. I finally figured it must be the water pump seeing as the thermostats don't seem to be known to fail that often. Pulled the water pump (JEEZ, what a *****!!!!!) and it seems fine. The impeller is solid on the shaft, and no sign of leakage. I guess I'm forced to change the thermostat now. Not looking forward to that either. Also, I found a wire terminal end attached to one of the bolts for the aluminum crossbrace with three wires attached that have been cut at some point in time? I can't find any wires loose in the engine compartment any where near that point, and all my systems seem to work fine. Anybody have an idea what grounds would have been terminated to that bolt? It's the front bolt on the driver's side on the aluminum crossbrace.
Also, does anyone know where a person can buy a new water pump? VPA says they are backordered from Mopar with no guess on a ship date. That *****?!!
Thanks in advance, Art

 

[speedracervr4]

Did you check your fan relays as well?

 

[Mutts02GTS]

Is either of the antifreeze bottles low on coolant, you could have an air pocket in the system...

 

[uvbnbit]

Did you hook up OBD and get real-time coolant temp? or at least what the temp sensor was reading? could be faulty sensor or gauge?
Oh, I have no answer for the questions you asked, sorry.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Also, I found a wire terminal end attached to one of the bolts for the aluminum crossbrace with three wires attached that have been cut at some point in time? I can't find any wires loose in the engine compartment any where near that point, and all my systems seem to work fine. Anybody have an idea what grounds would have been terminated to that bolt? It's the front bolt on the driver's side on the aluminum crossbrace.

How about a couple of pictures...close-up and a wide angle...

 

[dave6666]

Your radiator could be crapped too. Here's a pic of mine when I yanked it at @ 30K.

Although there are plenty of valid concerns that have occurred with the fan circuit on the Gen 2, if your fan is running and your gauge says hot, that's a clue that several electrical things ARE working properly. Like, if the fan is running all the time and the gauge says it's hot, then maybe it is. The sending unit however has 3 circuits in it. One for the PCM, one for the fan, and one for the message center. For it to be the culprit it would have to be the common connection to those 3 circuits going bad, but maybe so.

On my '01, shortly after I got it, i replaced the entire cooling system. Short of the block and the heater core. If you want to drive to Burleson I'll give you my old pump, although it sounds like you have a good used one as well as I do.

You must be registered for see images

 

[AJ02]

The relays are working properly and the gauge temp matches what the service manual says are the fan turn on temps. I found a water pump at Rock Auto so that, a new thermostat, bottom heater hose and related gaskets are on order. Can't seem to find the top (from the water pump to the metal tube alongside the cyl. head)heater hose anywhere though.? Hope it's not the radiator. Any way to check it without taking it out?

 

[dave6666]

I got the 2 small hoses from the water pump to the heater core and surge tank, from MOPAR i.e. dealership.

 

[dave6666]

BTW, can we assume the level in the fascia tank - the overflow tank - was being maintained? And that when the car got hot the level there went up, and when the car cooled, the level went back down? That is directly related to how much air you could have had in your system.

 

[AJ02]

BTW, can we assume the level in the fascia tank - the overflow tank - was being maintained? And that when the car got hot the level there went up, and when the car cooled, the level went back down? That is directly related to how much air you could have had in your system.

Yeah, the overflow tank level was where it should be for the car temp. Where did you get your new rad? I can't seem to find one. I contacted DeWitts about making me one. I have one of their aluminum direct fit rads in my Vette and it fit and works excellently! They estimated ball park $600 for a custom one using mine as a template. I might even be able to get a prototype at a discount. Do you think there would be a market for a quality aluminum replacement for the Gen 2?

 

[dave6666]

RSI -> Howe

 

[AJ02]

Went by RSI at lunch and talked to Will. He suggested I start by replacing the thermostat. He said he has seen them fail gradually. I have a 195 on order but am going to get a 170 from Will and send the other back. I'm also going to take the rad out and flush it to see if I get any crud out. Can't get one for about 4 weeks anyway. I'll just put the OEM water pump back in and keep the new for a spare for now. We'll see what that does and hope for the best. I can't afford to have the Viper down for a month as I have a potential buyer for my Vette and need a way to get to the bar now and then. Can't drive my company truck there. Art

 

[dave6666]

I would not go 170 on the stat.

 

[Ron]

Dave - What coolant were you running to have the radiator crud up like that? High mineral content in your local water? Curious...

 

[dave6666]

Dave - What coolant were you running to have the radiator crud up like that? High mineral content in your local water? Curious...

It could have been lack of maintenance from the first round of owners. I bought the car at 5 years old and it could have been the original coolant in there. Dunno. When I replaced the pump and the stat the block looked spotless so it appears to have just been the radiator that got trashed. I always use distilled water, even for a flush, so unless WallyMart has crappy distilled water, it's just the way it is.

 

[AJ02]

I would not go 170 on the stat.

Just going on Will's reccomendation on the 170 stat. I thought 180, but he said I'd be better off with a 170.

 

[dave6666]

Well then of all the things I do agree with from Will, that will be one I'll stay different on.

-> A 170 degree stat will do you no good most of the time in this climate. It will simply be a point on your gauge that the fluid temp passes as it rises to equilibrium, at a temp higher than that. Like 180 to 210 depending on what / where / when you are doing at that time.

-> If you are actually able to reach 170 as an equilibrium temp, like in cooler weather while out on the highway, the Viper engine is really not optimized to run that cold.

That is one of those things where "more," is not necessarily best. Your car tho, and if you don't like it, your time to dig that thing back out from below the intake.

 

[ViperTony]

Well then of all the things I do agree with from Will, that will be one I'll stay different on.

-> A 170 degree stat will do you no good most of the time in this climate. It will simply be a point on your gauge that the fluid temp passes as it rises to equilibrium, at a temp higher than that. Like 180 to 210 depending on what / where / when you are doing at that time.

-> If you are actually able to reach 170 as an equilibrium temp, like in cooler weather while out on the highway, the Viper engine is really not optimized to run that cold.

That is one of those things where "more," is not necessarily best. Your car tho, and if you don't like it, your time to dig that thing back out from below the intake.

I've had the Roe 172 degree t-stat in my Viper for 4 years. Frankly, it did nothing to improve coolant temperatures. Somebody (TomF&L) once wrote that a colder t-stat is like opening your windows earlier on a hot day. Eventually, the temps are going to climb back to where they normally climb to. I can attest to that. One other thing that did happen to me, though no-ill effects, is that I threw a CEL in cold temperatures with the lower t-stat. Colder temperatures for me was in the 40 degree and lower range. Tator warned me this could happen with a lower t-stat driving in cold temps.

I think a cooler t-stat, plus programming the PCM to turn on the fan sooner, rather than later, plus a vented cowl helps. But I believe it's more about more airflow than anything else. I think Dave can prove this too. I think I'm running a 180 degree t-stat now, I don't even know anymore, lol. But the biggest noticeable difference for me was reprograming the fan to come on at lower temperature. I also have the roe fascia duct which helps on the track and the highway. I agree with Dave that a lower t-stat is not better.

 

[AJ02]

Well then of all the things I do agree with from Will, that will be one I'll stay different on.

-> A 170 degree stat will do you no good most of the time in this climate. It will simply be a point on your gauge that the fluid temp passes as it rises to equilibrium, at a temp higher than that. Like 180 to 210 depending on what / where / when you are doing at that time.

-> If you are actually able to reach 170 as an equilibrium temp, like in cooler weather while out on the highway, the Viper engine is really not optimized to run that cold.


That is one of those things where "more," is not necessarily best. Your car tho, and if you don't like it, your time to dig that thing back out from below the intake.

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. I think I'll get the 180 like I originally considered. I don't feel like digging back in there if I don't have to. I'm still wondering how I'm going to get the intake back on by myself. I only have two hands. Seems like I need four!

 

[Ron]

It could have been lack of maintenance from the first round of owners. I bought the car at 5 years old and it could have been the original coolant in there. Dunno. When I replaced the pump and the stat the block looked spotless so it appears to have just been the radiator that got trashed. I always use distilled water, even for a flush, so unless WallyMart has crappy distilled water, it's just the way it is.

Must have been... While I did have a weakened solder joint leak, after doing only two coolant changes in 16 years & 32,000 miles (Dexcool & distilled water only), the tubes in my '96 look virtually pristine.

Amazing how bad they can get.

 

[daytonprowler]

https://www.viperpartsofamerica.com/index.php/products/1996-2002-dodge-viper-water-pump-04763776ab

 

[AJ02]

https://www.viperpartsofamerica.com/index.php/products/1996-2002-dodge-viper-water-pump-04763776ab

Two days ago their website said indefinitely backordered. I ordered the one in your link. Hope someone else didn't get it before me.

 

[Stonep185]

I've got a couple extra hands laying around here somewhere. Let me know if you think you could use them

 

[AJ02]

I've got a couple extra hands laying around here somewhere. Let me know if you think you could use them

Be very careful what you offer You'd have to come out to the nether regions to get to my house. I've got good cold beer though!

 

[AJ02]

Well, as it turns out--I need a radiator too. Damn it!!! 4 week wait for one from RSI. Pulled mine this morning to backflush it and there is a small leak on the bottom front of the driver's side end tank. I was hoping to be able to put her back on the road this weekend.

 

[Sybil TF]

Well, as it turns out--I need a radiator too. Damn it!!! 4 week wait for one from RSI. Pulled mine this morning to backflush it and there is a small leak on the bottom front of the driver's side end tank. I was hoping to be able to put her back on the road this weekend.

Sorry for your misfortune. I am having mine flushed here pretty soon and going with the Evan's coolant.

 

[dave6666]

And people wonder why I keep spare radiators lol.

 

[AJ02]

Well, I'm back on the road with new radiator, water pump, thermostat, heater hoses and fresh coolant. Dropped my running temperature by about 30-40 degrees. Wo-hoo!!!