Post Eibach and Alignment Impressions

[sbkim]

About a month ago, I finally had chance to install Eibach lowering springs on my 2002 GTS with the help from many of our forum members but especially from Lethal GTS. I must have called him gazillion times to figure out the installation - Thanks!! First, I did the install at home and it was NOT a pleasant experience. I won't bore you with all the details but here are my takeaways:

1. Getting the old shock assembly out isn't difficult - 2 bolts at the top and bottom. The front bottom may appear to be impossible to remove but if you hit it just right with a hammer (hehe), it will clear the tie-rods.

2. Definitely seek out a local shop to compress the springs for you. Not too many shops would offer this help but one did at a very reasonable price of $20 for all four.

3. I rented a Macpherson shock compressor from Autozone. It works but you will end up having a popeye size forearms and burning at least 30min each.

4. I also adjusted the shocks as per many instructions posted on the forum. I set the fronts at almost full (stiff) and back in the middle.

5. Putting the shocks back in was also a major PIA. Just make sure you have a good pry bar ready!

6. After about 100 miles of driving, I also ended up getting a four wheel alignment using factory specs since I do not track the car. If you are in the chicago area, I highly recommend Addison Alignment shop located on Lake St in Addison IL. They have a drive up bay so they can accomodate even the lowest cars. It took about 2 hrs and costed me $140. Before the alignment, the car felt extremely twitchy and was significantly off from factory specs - esp the toes.

Overall, I am very pleased with the looks of the car after the Eibachs. Ride quality really hasn't suffered much. It is slightly harsher but there is no bounce (prob b/c I adjusted the dampning on the shocks). I drove about 100 miles after installing the springs and the car dropped slightly over an inch on all fours. Believe it or not, I did not experience bad scrapes either.

Now, here is the kicker I was not expecting. After the alignment - supposedly the toes were WAYYYY off - the car height increased. So, now it's about 1" lower than stock. If you want to drop more than 1", either don't get an alignment, get those modified spring caps, or spend thousands and get adjustable coilovers.

These are terrible pictures but you get the idea. Overall, a great mod for $250 springs (ebay) + $20 (spring compressing) + $140 alignment.

Before:

http://home.comcast.net/~sbkim/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-1595086.html

http://home.comcast.net/~sbkim/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2663011.html

After (Eibach but before alignment)

http://home.comcast.net/~sbkim/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2663014.html

http://home.comcast.net/~sbkim/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2663017.html

http://home.comcast.net/~sbkim/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-2663019.html

 

[Toby]

The only alignment spec that is usually effected when lowering a car is camber.

On a 1 to 1 1/2 inch drop I would guess about 1 degree of negative camber is added. (hence the reason for an alignment)

Not sure why your toe settings got all fouled up or why an alignment would effect your ride height?

 

[GTS Dean]

Toe is not constant through the suspension travel curves. That's why they invented the terms "bump steer and static toe." If nothing's bent, then chances are you will still be within the shaded area of the toe chart recommendations. You may not need to reshim the steering rack or rear toe links after a ride height change, but it's not a "given."

 

[Inferno]

sbkim, did the alignment make the gap in your wheel-well bigger? Do you have any pics of after the alignment? So maybe when I go for mine, I'll tell them not to touch the toes and no reshim's, just do the best you can with a normal alignment.

 

[sbkim]

Sorry guys - I may not have used the correct alignment jargon here, but before the alignment all four wheels were slightly toed-out? / \ and now they are sitting more straight I I

 

[GTS Dean]

Toe is not constant through the suspension travel curves. That's why they invented the terms "bump steer and static toe." If nothing's bent, then chances are you will still be within the shaded area of the toe chart recommendations. You may not need to reshim the steering rack or rear toe links after a ride height change, but it's not a "given."

clarification: _static toe_ will definitely have to be reset after a ride height change. Bump steer may not.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Oh ya I forgot to mention that re installing is a real PIA!!
Damn it looks much better lowered though...don't ya think?

 

[snampro]

why was reinstalling so difficult?

 

[sbkim]

Tracy - absolutely - it looks much better. As they say, an inch can make the difference. Reinstalling was difficult mainly because you need patience to be able to squeeze the shocks into the mount and be able line up the bolts.

 

[Sonny S]

sbkim -

I'm very interested in your impressions of handling, steering and twitchiness, after alignment. Would you mind describing?

Thanks,

Sonny

 

[LETHAL GTS]

I like the way the car handles much better now.
Sonny, the handling will depend on your alignment specs. You only driving on the street or are you planning on tracking the car?

 

[Sonny S]

That's good to know, Tracy. I would be setting for 100% street driving, really. Even after I adjusted the Konis, I just find it's a little floaty, and I guess a little wobbly (hard to describe) on say, downhill curves. It's like it doesn't quite hold the line, it squirms a bit. Do you find the Eibachs hold the line and anchor the body down better?
I'm very interested in the Eibachs mod, for looks as well as handling and road feel. All comments would be appreciated.

Sonny

 

[LETHAL GTS]

What you could be feeling is ruts in the road.
Before the eibachs I noticed my car would lift slightly at 165mph. Since I've lowered it I could swear I don't notice that anymore. I've been to 185 and it was starting to lift again, but I'm sure by lowing the car it has helped.

My car is setup at -1.5 degree camber. It's a good street/track alignment.
Front

Camber: -1.5
Caster: +6.0
Total Toe: +0.12(+0.06 each side)

Rear

Camber: -1.1
Total Toe: +0.24(+0.12 each side)
Try this and I think you'll be happy.
Remember you can give your car an additional -1 degree camber by simply removing the sports shims.

 

[Sonny S]

I'm usually very aware when it's road ruts, although sometimes you can't see them. This squirmy/floaty thing that bugs me is not a high speed thing - it feels different from the typical Viper road rut twitch. Thanks for alignment specs, Tracy. Will try them next time.

SS

 

[Boxer12]

Lethal, you run that track setup with the sport shims in place or do you remove them for track? Don't you have to realign after removing sport shims?

 

[sbkim]

Sonny - I am not an expert on this but here are my driving impressions after alignment (about 50miles now):

1. The car is definitely less twitchy. Before, slightest movement of the wheel was making the car somewhat less controllable.

2. Car doesn't seem to ride the road grooves as bad as before. Then again, with 355 19" wheels/tires, it's difficult to avoid.

3. Overall ride quality is very similar to stock. Yes, it's stiffer but not that noticeable. High speed runs are similar to without Eibachs

4. This may be due to weather but I feel as though there is less wheel hop. Again, it could strictly be from weather and road conditions.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Lethal, you run that track setup with the sport shims in place or do you remove them for track? Don't you have to realign after removing sport shims?

It's a very mild track setup and no I don't have my shims in. It maynot be a bad idea leaving them in if you go with a milder setup then mine. That way you can go from a street setup to a track setup simply by removing the shims. However -1 degree camber may require realignment of your toe out.