Rear Ended in GTS and have a quick question

[dansauto]

unless your policy has a clause for dim value you can not get it. Carfax reporting is about 50-50. Some police agencies subscribe and submit thier claims to carfax others do not.

 

[yellowvipergts]

Some police agencies subscribe and submit thier claims to carfax others do not.

Which is exactly why you should never trust a car fax.

 

[Ben Gratt]

unless your policy has a clause for dim value you can not get it. Carfax reporting is about 50-50. Some police agencies subscribe and submit thier claims to carfax others do not.

This isn't actually true for 3rd party claims. If the accident is not your fault, the other party must pay to repair your vehicle and the dimished value (you may have to fight and get appraisals to determine exactly how much this really is -- especially on a Viper).

From the Insurance Consumer Advocate Network (ican2000.com):

"It is universally acknowledged, in every state, that Diminished Value is owed by the liable (at-fault) party that caused the Diminished Value damage. If the liability insurance carrier for the at-fault party owes for repairing your damaged vehicle, they owe for the Diminished Value as well - It’s just that simple !

While it has been universally accepted that Diminished Value is owed to not-at-fault victims (3rd party claimants), courts are generally taking the position that insurance companies do Not owe Diminished Value damages to their own insureds under their policy’s Collision or Comprehensive coverages. However, there are three states where insurance companies Do owe Diminished Value to their own policyholders – Georgia, Kansas and North Carolina."

I was hit several years ago (not my fault) and was awarded diminished value on my daily driver Honda.

Ben.

 

[TAXIMAN1]

This isn't actually true for 3rd party claims. If the accident is not your fault, the other party must pay to repair your vehicle and the diminished value (you may have to fight and get appraisals to determine exactly how much this really is -- especially on a Viper).

From the Insurance Consumer Advocate Network (ican2000.com):

"It is universally acknowledged, in every state, that Diminished Value is owed by the liable (at-fault) party that caused the Diminished Value damage. If the liability insurance carrier for the at-fault party owes for repairing your damaged vehicle, they owe for the Diminished Value as well - It’s just that simple !

While it has been universally accepted that Diminished Value is owed to not-at-fault victims (3rd party claimants), courts are generally taking the position that insurance companies do Not owe Diminished Value damages to their own insureds under their policy’s Collision or Comprehensive coverages. However, there are three states where insurance companies Do owe Diminished Value to their own policyholders – Georgia, Kansas and North Carolina."

I was hit several years ago (not my fault) and was awarded diminished value on my daily driver Honda.

Ben.

This is a huge issue these days. My neighbor was hit in his 6 month old Bentley Cont. GT, which resulted in $55k in repairs. And is STILL fighting with Insurance on this issue. 1 year after the car is fixed and back on the road. Between Carfax reports, sensitivity to paint/repair work. You are correct, it IS universally agreed there is diminished value, in SOME Cases. However the "Insurance Consumer Advocate network" did not write or issue your policy. And can not guarantee what will be paid, if anything. Every single case is different.

The problem..It's tough to determine what the diminished value is UNTIL the car is sold...... How is value determined?? By a piece of paper that says "appraisal" on it (which is usually inflated). Or by auction value(TMV).
In reality, Probably some place between the two figures, but much closer to auction value, in this market.

What if the accident report never makes it to carfax?.. Should the case assume it will show, or wait till it does (It has NOT showed up on the Bentley yet, the car has a crystal clear carfax 6 months later, despite having frame repair done). And if they make an award assuming it will show, and it never does. That goes against the very concept of insurance, of "making whole again". And it actually REWARDS/BENEFITS them by being hit.... Certainly, Not a good precedent to set. Too many people out there who work the system.

And then if it does show, then what?? What if it states minor collision?
What if it states major collision? What if it states airbag deployed? Will there be a set amount for each? %>? The issues with this, are obvious..

And as far as depreciation goes. Cars depreciate....... This is a fact of life, and is a natural process of owning and driving an automobile. There is no guarantee of future value.. ever.. You buy a car today, that money is gone,spent.. UNLESS there is a market to support the sale of said vehicle. Also (and most important), who is to say no one is willing to pay market value, if the car is repaired properly, by a qualified body shop, with warranty on the work? Maybe your car has all the options and color someone wants. And does not care that the bumper was resprayed.. In which case, there is no diminished value...

I would venture a guess that 50% of EVERY SINGLE Gen.2 out there HAS HAD some type of paint work done.. Ranging from a simple facia/bumper respray to total reconstruction. I've seen SUPER LOW mileage cars with heavy paintwork on them. And that 50% percentage number, might be light, to be honest. Many people don't even know, their car has had paintwork..

No flames... Just playing devils advocate here.... There are huge issues on both sides of the diminished value scenario. I don't necessarily agree with any single one of them. But this is complicated, and often not worth the effort. Unless

Unless we are talking about a significant case. And no offense, but I don't see that happening on a 7-8 year old Viper,.. The diminished value from a resprayed rear bumper is not much at all, IF ANY. Every case is different. But as far as this case goes, I doubt it's worth the time effort, attorney fees,etc,etc.

Now if this were a 2009 Viper, in need of frame straightening,etc. Then yes, this would be worth pursuing.

 

[dave6666]

The diminished value from a resprayed rear bumper is not much at all, IF ANY.

That might just sum up that topic...

 

[TAXIMAN1]

That might just sum up that topic...

yeah, I realize that.. But this is familair terriorty for me, right now. As I am trying to advise a friend of mine, on what to do with his Bentley Dimm. Value.. Tough situation.

 

[Ben Gratt]

TAXIMAN1,

I agree this is a complicated issue, and it may very well be true that the diminished value for a resprayed bumper isn't very much nowadays. However, I believe the fact still remains that the legal precedent exists that dimished value must be paid on third-party, 100% not at fault claims in ALL cases (where you can prove it exists) in ALL states (this wouldn't have anything to do with the langauge in your specific policy). At fault, first party claims are usually not covered. Most importantly, you would have to have a strong enough case to prove that diminished value exists in your specific case if you expect to receive any money.

Now is it worth it to fight endlessly and possibly pursue litigation over this? Maybe not in this specific case, but if the diminished value is great enough, it could certainly be worth it since you stand to win either in court or through binding arbitration. Of course, you'd still be taking a risk, since who knows what a judge would deem as a fair amount to recover for diminished value (it could be much lower than you're suing for and it can obviously take a long time to recover as evidenced by your neighbor's Bentley).

You're correct that it's tough to determine what the actual diminished value is until a car is sold, but it would make sense to just use real market data and analysis. Look at what previously wrecked cars have sold for versus a similiar car with no damage history. There's no true scientific way to do this, but it would certainly help any case with the insurance company. Appraisals aren't 100% accurate either, but they would still be an essential component of building your case.

Also, even if the accident doesn't make it to Carfax, diminished value still exists. There are many other ways of determining if a car has had paint and body work without relying on the Carfax report. I would argue that as an honest seller, I'm going to disclose the accident to any potential buyer regardless of what Carfax says.

I suppose I was lucky to receive diminished value in the past without any fight (probably since my claim was relatively small compared to a Viper!) I doubt it would have been worth my time to pursue it any further had they denied my claim.

I would still do some basic research and put together a case for this Viper. The worst the insurance company can do is deny your claim, but they may be agreeable to some compensation as it was in my case.

Ben.

 

[pteam]

Funny thing is I don't think he even cared. He did not even apologize once, I even apologized for being upset at the situation. Typical Pennsylvania drivers not paying attention, texting or talking on the phone.

Well if he didnt care (Ass*ole) , then you should try to get everything replaced possible so he takes the biggest ding on his insurance

 

[ViperGeorge]

And it looks way cool. Are you the only one in the world pulling a trailer behind your Viper?

Bob

Here's pics of my 06 Coupe with trailer hitch and a shot of the trailer I pull.

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[TAXIMAN1]

TAXIMAN1,

I agree this is a complicated issue, and it may very well be true that the diminished value for a resprayed bumper isn't very much nowadays. However, I believe the fact still remains that the legal precedent exists that dimished value must be paid on third-party, 100% not at fault claims in ALL cases (where you can prove it exists) in ALL states (this wouldn't have anything to do with the langauge in your specific policy). At fault, first party claims are usually not covered. Most importantly, you would have to have a strong enough case to prove that diminished value exists in your specific case if you expect to receive any money.

Now is it worth it to fight endlessly and possibly pursue litigation over this? Maybe not in this specific case, but if the diminished value is great enough, it could certainly be worth it since you stand to win either in court or through binding arbitration. Of course, you'd still be taking a risk, since who knows what a judge would deem as a fair amount to recover for diminished value (it could be much lower than you're suing for and it can obviously take a long time to recover as evidenced by your neighbor's Bentley).

You're correct that it's tough to determine what the actual diminished value is until a car is sold, but it would make sense to just use real market data and analysis. Look at what previously wrecked cars have sold for versus a similiar car with no damage history. There's no true scientific way to do this, but it would certainly help any case with the insurance company. Appraisals aren't 100% accurate either, but they would still be an essential component of building your case.

Also, even if the accident doesn't make it to Carfax, diminished value still exists. There are many other ways of determining if a car has had paint and body work without relying on the Carfax report. I would argue that as an honest seller, I'm going to disclose the accident to any potential buyer regardless of what Carfax says.

I suppose I was lucky to receive diminished value in the past without any fight (probably since my claim was relatively small compared to a Viper!) I doubt it would have been worth my time to pursue it any further had they denied my claim.

I would still do some basic research and put together a case for this Viper. The worst the insurance company can do is deny your claim, but they may be agreeable to some compensation as it was in my case.

Ben.

Ben, I agree with your comments. It's just very tough to actually collect on this.. Attorneys obviously are in business to make a good living. If they do not believe there is a substantial case (1/3rd), you'll get nothing but closed doors.. No one will pick up a case for $2-$3k dimm. value..

However, In todays used car market, of Carfax Reports,Paint-meters,etc,etc. (and, unlike the 7-8 year old viper described) Cars like 2008-2009 AMG Mercedes, Bentleys,etc,etc. can get hit with $10-$20k diminished, for something as simple as a resprayed fender.. What if someone keys my Mercedes at the mall?? Is that a dimm. value case?? Or does this ONLY apply to accidents?? What if road debris hits my hood on the highway, and requires a repaint? No fault, no accident.. then what? There are just so many issues here.

Again, very tough case to win (you got VERY lucky). But I do agree with your comments... High end vehicles DO lose value, if they have had accident and/or paintwork (even if there was no accident, i.e. keyed panel).

Honestly, this was a big reason I leased my Mercedes... To avoid the liability of this issue, completely. And, Let the leasing company take the risk. I have enough to worry about.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The problem..It's tough to determine what the diminished value is UNTIL the car is sold...... How is value determined??

The government doesn't seem to have a problem placing value on property before it's sold. But as usual, when it comes to the individual citizen the courts screw us.