SVS DIY TT - 93 vs. E85

[SVS Turbo]

SVS TT 93/E85

14 E85 stations within a 20 mile radius of our shop. The engine runs alot cooler

There's a high percentage of E85 stations in Illinois that sell it for less than $2 gal

How much is 100, 104 at the pump? Is 100, 104 still widely available in Illinois?

 

[GTSnake]

I've always liked E85. The only problem is converting your car over. Since I've pretty much changed my entire fuel system I can run it. Although I just wonder if there's some seal somewhere that I missed will show up years later and start leaking

How much timing did you add when you tuned with E85?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

E85

Indy cars are running it this year.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Technically they will run E100. Using 15% gasoline (as in E85) would allow a huge opportunity to escape detection of unintended performance enhancements.

 

[Shelby3]

E85 has an octane rating of 105, however it does not burn as efficiently in traditionally-manufactured internal-combustion engines. Additionally, E85 contains less energy per volume as compared to gasoline. Although E85 contains only 72% of the energy on a gallon-for-gallon basis compared to gasoline, experimenters have seen slightly better fuel mileage than the 28% this difference in energy content implies. For example, recent tests by the National Renewable Energy Lab on fleet vehicles owned by the state of Ohio showed about a 25% reduction in mpg comparing E85 operation to reformulated gasoline in the same flexible fuel vehicle. Results compared against a gasoline-only vehicle were essentially the same, about a 25% reduction in volumetric fuel economy with E85.

 

[IEATVETS]

You lost me at E85 has......

 

[SVS Turbo]

I've always liked E85. The only problem is converting your car over. Since I've pretty much changed my entire fuel system I can run it. Although I just wonder if there's some seal somewhere that I missed will show up years later and start leaking

How much timing did you add when you tuned with E85?

Our basis for doing this and other testing is to show that e85 is the most cost effective, highest power delivered, at the pump fuel, for higher performance vehicles. It’s not a basis to show that it’s better for normal everyday vehicles. Our testing has shown that e85 performance gains are only realized once you reach a level of higher compression. Most of what we’ve tested has been TT systems and we’ll have results for NA higher compression very soon.

In this particular engine we ran 5 more degrees than what we ran on 93 octane.

The fuel system for this engine has a Flex Fuel sensor added inline. The sensor determines the amount of e85 or 93 in any combination that's present in the fuel lines. First we tuned 100% e85. Then we drained the tank and tuned 100% on 93. Then percentage compensations were made for combinations of e85 and 93. The flex fuel sensor communicates with the Motec ECU and the map adjusts accordingly to the combination of e85 and 93 present in the fuel lines.

Yes the fuel economy/mpg of e85 is 25% less because it requires that percentage more of e85 to run through the engine. When you add that 25% increase in cost to the average price of $2.00 gal. (e85) you get $2.50 gal.

Pulling up to the pump this engine can choose either 100% 93, 100% e85 or any combination of the two. If this engine chooses 100% e85 it will perform at a 50rwhp increase and 30rwtq increase over 93 for the same price as 93!

If you're looking at fuel economy/price and performance than lets add the 25% more and make e85 $2.50 a gal. I'm pretty sure you would see about the same results in performance if you added 104 octane vs. 93 doing the same 11.5 psi test with this engine. How much is 104 octane at the pump? I think it’s about double the price, not exactly sure yet. Filling up your tank for about half the price for the same performance is a substantial cost savings.

Fill up your tank for $36 or fill it up for $72 and get the same performance either way?

The Koenigsegg has an e85 setting that I believe is the highest power delivery out of the engine. The Lotus Exige just released an e85 S/C version that had a very interesting write up in Winding Road Online magazine:

Cool website - http://www.windingroad.com/download?issue=new

I've been driving/testing e85 higher power/performance engines for over a year and I like the way the engines feel/run on e85 better than 93.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

How well do the cars start on E85 in the cold?

 

[SVS Turbo]

It's a little harder starting when it's cold, but nothing that you would consider annoying. They have a winter blend that's 70/30 for colder climates.

For the higher performance engine that can run on e85 I would say to run more 93 when its cold if you don't like that it's harder to start. This is when it's getting closer to freezing or less. Most high performance cars don't drive around in the winter because of traction, salt, etc.

In the summer when it's hot the e85 runs cool

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Have you looked at used oil analysis? With E85 there are some changes in operation: the cooler intake charge increases likelihood of fuel recondensing on the cylinder wall, a larger fuel quantity per injection, and richer mixture under load. All lead to greater fuel introduction into the oil.

The easiest route is a strict oil change schedule, and perhaps for peace of mind you can consider a diesel engine oil. Diesel oils are developed to manage and protect against acidic components forming in the oil (the higher "TBN"). These bad actors form when water, ethanol, and combustion by-products are in nice warm oil. There are several synthetic diesel oils in a SAE 5W-40 grade.

 

[SVS Turbo]

Have you looked at used oil analysis? With E85 there are some changes in operation: the cooler intake charge increases likelihood of fuel recondensing on the cylinder wall, a larger fuel quantity per injection, and richer mixture under load. All lead to greater fuel introduction into the oil.

The easiest route is a strict oil change schedule, and perhaps for peace of mind you can consider a diesel engine oil. Diesel oils are developed to manage and protect against acidic components forming in the oil (the higher "TBN"). These bad actors form when water, ethanol, and combustion by-products are in nice warm oil. There are several synthetic diesel oils in a SAE 5W-40 grade.

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