thanks tom, Thanks Tom, THANKS TOM, for the BRAKES

[ruckdr]

THANKS TOM,
We finally had a track day here in the Northwest that didn't get rained out. As a result, I was able to really exercise the rear (and front) brakes at Pacific Raceway in Kent, WA (south of Seattle, WA) The car reacted unbelievably, no nose dive, just squatted and slowed down fast. I as able to drive so fast and deep into corners, it was scary at first, until I got the confidence and realized that the car was really different.
The track day was an invitation only day, and I had the pleasure of running with 360 Ferraris, a Porsche Carrera GT (you know the V10, about $500,000), and the thrill of a lifetime at the track, and Enzo Ferrari ($1,000,000+). I have a DVD made from my video camera, following, pushing, actually running all over the Enzo, for several laps around Pacific Raceway (the driver was REALLY poor, and wouldn't let me by). If I can figure out how to post a DVD segment, I will.

Thanks again Tom for the great rear brakes.
To all who do not have these rear brakes, think seriously about getting them - a must.

 

[RB185AFM]

Wow sounds like a lot of fun. I would love to race those cars and show them what a Viper can do.

 

[PhoenixGTS]

Thanks again Tom for the great rear brakes.
To all who do not have these rear brakes, think seriously about getting them - a must.

I think the pre-ABS brakes are down right dangerous without Tom's calipers to correct them. DC engineers should be ashamed of themselves for that one. I mean didn't the test drivers come bake from shake-down runs and say "WHOA those brakes ****?"

 

[ruckdr]

Phoenix,
Quite likely the test drivers DID say that, but money dictates, and it take someone like Tom to correct the problem. You make the point that:
To all who do not have these rear brakes, think seriously about getting them - a must.

 

[SilverSnake]

How much is the kit ? Is it just the rears that get switch out ?

Thanks,

Robert

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Thanks, Don and Michael, between us we'll have all sort of kits and things to "finish" the development of the car!

$630 and your cores; straightforward swap of rear calipers - take your old ones off, put the new ones on. No surprises, special parts, or cutting anything off. PM or email me for a fact sheet with more info.

 

[monnieh]

Tom, is something anybody can do? I don't like to wrench much but I can if needed.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Anybody can do.

You need a 15mm socket with very short extension (for one attaching bolt, the bolt that holds the brake hose, and the banjo bolt), a 6mm allen wrench for the other attaching bolt, 11mm box end wrench for the bleeder screw, and vise grips. 3/8" ratchet is fine. Brakes come with new copper washers.

The secret to taking off the parking brake cable is that the return spring is weak - just use the vise grips to pull on the ball on the end of the cable, push on the arm a little and you can unhook it from the parking brake arm. You don't have to take the arm off.

Work the pads out first going up or down. Seems harder to take the caliper off if the pads are still there.

The new pistons are already in all the way, so you don't need the special retractor tool. Many times all the air isn't bled out the first time because (due to the parking brake mechanicals) the piston and bore are very long in the horizontal direction and trap air. Do the best you can, but plan on bleeding, yanking on the parking brake handle, driving a little to jiggle the bubbles, then bleeding again. Figure an hour per side and 2-3 beers.

 

[Irid]

Photos and video of the track day can be found here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2031877

You must be registered for see images

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

More thumbs for Tom's brakes. I have them on my GTS and will get them for my RT/10 in the future.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Don that's awesome, looks like it was a great time.

I'm surprised to hear this about the brakes though. Everything I've read about the Vipers says they have world class braking.

Aren't they Brembo all the way around?

What is the deficiency of the rear brakes?

Cal

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'm surprised to hear this about the brakes though. Everything I've read about the Vipers says they have world class braking.

SRT/10 brakes are world class. GenI & II brakes are horrible.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The rear brakes are indeed Brembo; but originally from a 1988-1992 Renault Alliance. Same 36mm diameter piston, and therefore insufficient brake torque. Aggressive braking is dependent on how much work the fronts can do, so overheating, plowing, or flat spotting the fronts is common. A larger rear brake distributes the work load more equitably and the car will slow much better in addition to generally feeling more in control.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Tom thanks for the info on the brakes. Renault...that really *****. Looks like I have another project to add to my to do list, I'll contact you when I'm ready

Out of curiosity, what are the brakes in your package?

Thanks,
Cal

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

The brakes are re-sized from the original 36mm piston size to 40mm piston size using the OEM caliper. Therefore, it fits in the same way, use the same rotor, pad, brake hose, wheel, etc. No special tools, no cutting, no irreversible changes, and you retain the parking brake. In fact, it looks the same, which is arguably good or bad. But it makes it a simple swap.

 

[ruckdr]

Cal, (this is not Tom)
You asked:"Out of curiosity, what are the brakes in your package?"
They are the same rear calipers (2) that you currently have on the car now, that have been machined/honed from 36mm to receive a 40mm piston. Every thing fits as stock, no modifications necessary. Receive Tom's calipers, replace yours, send him yours, (and some money), that is all there is to it. You can use any stock size pads and/or rotors.
As Tom said in the post above yours:
"A larger rear brake distributes the work load more equitably and the car will slow much better in addition to generally feeling more in control."

Later,

 

[ruckdr]

Tom,
You beat me. Hope you don't mind me giving my 2 cents worth, and my wonderful experience with the brakes. After the hard track day, I actually think I had less brake dust on the front wheels, and perhaps a little more on the rears - as might be expected.
Later,

 

[diabolos88]

Tom

do your brakes work on ABS-equipped cars?

 

[PDCjonny]

This sounds like a must have, my brakes are horrible.

 

[ruckdr]

Tom

do your brakes work on ABS-equipped cars?

Not For ABS.

This sounds like a must have, my brakes are horrible

YES, an absolute must.

Later,

 

[AG98RT10]

The really neat thing about Tom's solution, and what sold me right away, is that the front-only Stoptech solution that sells for around 2K actually uses smaller pistons up there to match the cheesy 36 mm rear pistions. That's how they achieve balanced braking. Tom's solution builds up the rears to balance with factory fronts, which actually have more braking power than the Stoptechs (total system is therefore, also, more robust). Very elegant.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

diabolos88, as stated, these calipers are for the older, non-ABS cars. The ABS caliper is very different.

ViperJon, talk to Chuck Tator, as installs them and has put them on his personal car. If you're within traveling distance, he'll put them on for you - he keeps them in stock.

Or, obviously, give me a shout and I'll send you more info.

Thanks, Don and John, for the compliments.

 

[ACR steve]

I just put on Brake Man 3 pads ft and rr and damn you can really see how well the 40mm works

 

[Jeff Torrey]

What impressed me and the tech that installed mine was after the test drive (very hard braking), the tech put a temperature sensor on the front and rear brakes. The fronts were about 5 degrees warmer than the rears... Perfectly balanced braking.

Great product!