I don't think its a question whether DC can make the power it's probably whether with more power we the consumer want to pay more for insurance. I pay approximately $2000 a year and the car sits for the winter. Can DC make more power YES!!!!!!!!
VIPER HORSEPOWER @ 450 FOR RT-10/GTS IS VERY LOW!
- Thread starter EXECMALIBU
- Start date
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cstegall:
Exec,
Don't let anybody get under your skin...I actually have gotten used to reading your posts in caps(don't have to use my glasses
)and have found that you constantly lean on the "cause" that you are extremely unhappy with your Viper and DC. My flameless opinion is that you like to post in a negative fashion to see who/how people will react. It was kinda entertaining in the early going but is getting very old so maybe you could post something positive like..."I positively hate my Viper"..or.."I am positive that I will sell my Viper"..or.."I positively hate this board and am positive that I will never post here again".
Anyway...whatever you decide to do keep that cap button pushed..you are saving me a fortune in eye exams.
No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
![laughing2[1].gif](/vca/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvca1.viperclub.org%2Fubb%2Fsmilies%2Flaughing2%5B1%5D.gif&hash=44ede181bdbbbb16a006ddd7153c47a2)
Exec,
Don't let anybody get under your skin...I actually have gotten used to reading your posts in caps(don't have to use my glasses
Anyway...whatever you decide to do keep that cap button pushed..you are saving me a fortune in eye exams.
No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
KenH
Enthusiast
I used to think that HP/Litre was an important consideration when I drove a pumped up 3.0L twin turbo ricer. Somehow, now that I drive a Viper, that whole viewpoint seems kind of silly. Other than bragging rights on a spec sheet, what does it actually buy you from a performance standpoint? Kinda like the S2000 guys bragging that they can wind it up to 9000RPM... Yeah, so? At the end of the day, what does that really mean other than a big red flag that the engine is gutless when driven under any normal driving conditions in the 1500-6000RPM range. At 3000 RPM, it's putting down something like a whooping 75RWHP!
I think your main point is that if DC made the Viper engine more efficient, it could put a 600-700HP motor in the car off the show room. I just don't think that engine efficiency is really the gating item in that equation. As has been noted, it has been proven time and again that the engine seems to be good for a reliable and drivable 600-700HP easy through easy tuner efficiency improvements, but what's the incentive for DC to do this?
Most of the newer high HP motors in the Mercedes lines seem to be going into lead lined comfort sleds that need the power just to get them moving (Maybach being a good example) and there is a lot more margin $ to be made in those product lines which help pay for the NRE. Plus many of these engines are shared across product lines increasing the ROI. With DC talking about sticking the Viper engine into everything from trucks to bikes these days, I would not be surprised if they did reengineer the engine to be more efficient, but probably for the purpose of increasing mileage and lowering cost rather than significantly improving power.
-- Ken
I think your main point is that if DC made the Viper engine more efficient, it could put a 600-700HP motor in the car off the show room. I just don't think that engine efficiency is really the gating item in that equation. As has been noted, it has been proven time and again that the engine seems to be good for a reliable and drivable 600-700HP easy through easy tuner efficiency improvements, but what's the incentive for DC to do this?
Most of the newer high HP motors in the Mercedes lines seem to be going into lead lined comfort sleds that need the power just to get them moving (Maybach being a good example) and there is a lot more margin $ to be made in those product lines which help pay for the NRE. Plus many of these engines are shared across product lines increasing the ROI. With DC talking about sticking the Viper engine into everything from trucks to bikes these days, I would not be surprised if they did reengineer the engine to be more efficient, but probably for the purpose of increasing mileage and lowering cost rather than significantly improving power.
-- Ken
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
LETS REVIEW THE COMMENTS...
RONVIPER THOUGHT THAT DC NEVER INCREASED THE HP OVER 45OHP BECAUSE THE CONSUMER DOES NOT WANT TO PAY MORE INSURANCE FOR THE ADDITIONAL POWER..
WHY DID THEY INCREASE THE POWER TWICE FROM 400 TO 415 THEN TO 450?
AND WHY DID DC INCREASE THE POWER ON THE SRT TO 500HP?
CRAIG 201 MPH THOUGHT THAT THE VIPER ENGINE RELIABILITY WOULD BE REDUCED BY ADDITIONAL 100HP.
I DONT THINK THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM..
KENR COMMENTED ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE THE INCENTIVE FOR DC ADDING MORE POWER?
WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE FOR ANY MANUFACTURER ADDING MORE POWER?
I THINK THAT IT IS INCENTIVE TO BUY THE NEWER YEAR AND BETTER MODEL AND WOULD INCREASE SALES..
RONVIPER THOUGHT THAT DC NEVER INCREASED THE HP OVER 45OHP BECAUSE THE CONSUMER DOES NOT WANT TO PAY MORE INSURANCE FOR THE ADDITIONAL POWER..
WHY DID THEY INCREASE THE POWER TWICE FROM 400 TO 415 THEN TO 450?
AND WHY DID DC INCREASE THE POWER ON THE SRT TO 500HP?
CRAIG 201 MPH THOUGHT THAT THE VIPER ENGINE RELIABILITY WOULD BE REDUCED BY ADDITIONAL 100HP.
I DONT THINK THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM..
KENR COMMENTED ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE THE INCENTIVE FOR DC ADDING MORE POWER?
WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE FOR ANY MANUFACTURER ADDING MORE POWER?
I THINK THAT IT IS INCENTIVE TO BUY THE NEWER YEAR AND BETTER MODEL AND WOULD INCREASE SALES..
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
Don't put words into my mouth. Where did I say that it couldn't handle an additional 100h.p.? My whole point in saying that another 100 h.p. from the factory is dumb is because it will increase costs and therefor drive up the cost of the car, to you that would mean more horribnle, horrible depreciation.
I just want to know why you can't send your car to a tuner for additional h.p. rather than come on here and ask "why oh why is DC screwing us viper owners over with this pre-historic car."
If you want 550+h.p. stock, go buy a lambo and complain to their boards when you need to spend 10K to get some rare part fixed.
And also, your comment about sales...
ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION? THE VIPER IS NOT ABOUT MAKING MORE SALES, it's LIMITED PRODUCTION, AND THEY'RE ALL SOLD......IN LESS THAN 2 WEEKS!
I just want to know why you can't send your car to a tuner for additional h.p. rather than come on here and ask "why oh why is DC screwing us viper owners over with this pre-historic car."
If you want 550+h.p. stock, go buy a lambo and complain to their boards when you need to spend 10K to get some rare part fixed.
And also, your comment about sales...
Snakester
Enthusiast
It is a balance to provide 500HP+ in a normally aspirated car and still pass tight emissions testing.
Look at the other 500HP+ cars out there. I mean regular production cars (500+ sales) in the U.S., not like the $650,000 Enzo.
It's a REALLY small list. Then look at how many are normally aspirated, and how many are under $100K?
Oops! the list is narrowed to ONE car. The Viper.
So what is the reason to push for more power stock?
To appease people looking for better HP/L numbers? NO.
It's not an unfounded question to ask for more power stock, and I bet that D/C could pull out an extra 150HP+, especially if they added a supercharger.
Actually, I don't think that it would be a bad idea for D/C to make a SRT-10 Viper "S" model with 650 crank HP, because it many buyers would pony up an extra $20K for just the extra factory stock power over the Z06 and 996TT, GT2 and GT3, and Ferrari 360.
And it would provide an edge over the upcoming Ford GT(44), Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari 420 Modena, Lambo Gallardo, and Mercedes SLR.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with the GenII or SRT-10 Vipers at all (which I think is well positioned against today's competitors) but I do think that a factory supercharged Viper would be a hit. This idea has nothing to do with HP/L or engine efficiency for me, but it would be an easy way to raise the bar even further with a super specialty model.
Is it needed?
NO.
Would it be welcomed by Viper owners and prospective buyers?
I think that it would. If only for bragging rights.
-Dean.
Look at the other 500HP+ cars out there. I mean regular production cars (500+ sales) in the U.S., not like the $650,000 Enzo.
It's a REALLY small list. Then look at how many are normally aspirated, and how many are under $100K?
Oops! the list is narrowed to ONE car. The Viper.
So what is the reason to push for more power stock?
To appease people looking for better HP/L numbers? NO.
It's not an unfounded question to ask for more power stock, and I bet that D/C could pull out an extra 150HP+, especially if they added a supercharger.
Actually, I don't think that it would be a bad idea for D/C to make a SRT-10 Viper "S" model with 650 crank HP, because it many buyers would pony up an extra $20K for just the extra factory stock power over the Z06 and 996TT, GT2 and GT3, and Ferrari 360.
And it would provide an edge over the upcoming Ford GT(44), Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari 420 Modena, Lambo Gallardo, and Mercedes SLR.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with the GenII or SRT-10 Vipers at all (which I think is well positioned against today's competitors) but I do think that a factory supercharged Viper would be a hit. This idea has nothing to do with HP/L or engine efficiency for me, but it would be an easy way to raise the bar even further with a super specialty model.
Is it needed?
NO.
Would it be welcomed by Viper owners and prospective buyers?
I think that it would. If only for bragging rights.
-Dean.
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
monnieh
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow, your really old. Maybe a Malibu Barbie Bug is better for you.
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow, your really old. Maybe a Malibu Barbie Bug is better for you.
KenH
Enthusiast
I think Snakester hit the nail on the head. The way to approach this (if at all) would be to offer up a higher performance, higher cost option for those that want it and can afford it. This should have been the ACR, but DC missed the boat on that one in my opinion.
Tying bigger HP to 'better engine efficiency' just confuses the matter. Personally, I'd prefer my 600HP Viper to be based on a NA 10L engine than a supercharged/turbo'd smaller (though more efficient) one.
-- Ken
Tying bigger HP to 'better engine efficiency' just confuses the matter. Personally, I'd prefer my 600HP Viper to be based on a NA 10L engine than a supercharged/turbo'd smaller (though more efficient) one.
-- Ken
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your comparison would make sense if the viper was a mass produced vehicle with a wide array of options...but it's not. Because it is limited production, having a more exclusive package would prove uneconomical, we already have the ACR option package with more power, different suspention treatment but what %age of total GTS production do they account for? If you were ordering a viper to be a track car why wouldn't you save the 10K, order a stock GTS and put the $$$ into suspension and brake mods and pick up a set of track wheels for cheap? Doesn't that make more sense? Same holds true for your proposed "S" model, I seriously doubt Dodge would be willing to R&D 150+ more horses, give it a warranty and stock the specialty parts necessary for the package for less than you could have say APEX do it for you. I seriously doubt the vast majority of people putting up the $$ for the "S" package would use it as intended, it would probably end up jsut like the 2000 Mustang Cobra R's...sitting in garages with neato display signs stating it has 4 miles on the odometer.
Beleive it or not, not evey owner wants more power, to be a performer the car doesn't need it. A completely stock Viper won the One lap of america a couple years ago, competeing against tuned vettes, ferrari's etc....
Starting with 450 horses is great (most buyers of the car have a handful with that much anyway) for those that really want it will find it elsewhere, no harm in that either.
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Your comparison would make sense if the viper was a mass produced vehicle with a wide array of options...but it's not. Because it is limited production, having a more exclusive package would prove uneconomical, we already have the ACR option package with more power, different suspention treatment but what %age of total GTS production do they account for? If you were ordering a viper to be a track car why wouldn't you save the 10K, order a stock GTS and put the $$$ into suspension and brake mods and pick up a set of track wheels for cheap? Doesn't that make more sense? Same holds true for your proposed "S" model, I seriously doubt Dodge would be willing to R&D 150+ more horses, give it a warranty and stock the specialty parts necessary for the package for less than you could have say APEX do it for you. I seriously doubt the vast majority of people putting up the $$ for the "S" package would use it as intended, it would probably end up jsut like the 2000 Mustang Cobra R's...sitting in garages with neato display signs stating it has 4 miles on the odometer.
Beleive it or not, not evey owner wants more power, to be a performer the car doesn't need it. A completely stock Viper won the One lap of america a couple years ago, competeing against tuned vettes, ferrari's etc....
Starting with 450 horses is great (most buyers of the car have a handful with that much anyway) for those that really want it will find it elsewhere, no harm in that either.
garolittle
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If only his parents had used a ******.
CRAIG 201 MPH,
WHAT I ASKED IN THE ORIGINAL POST WAS WHY DOES DC NOT OFFER A HIGH PERFORMANCE MODEL?
THAT IS WHAT THEY USED TO OFFER OFTEN CALLED A HI-PO OPTION!!
REMEMBER THE DODGE 426 HEMI??
REMEMBER THE CHEVY L-88,LS6
REMEMBER THE BUICK STAGE-I
REMEMBER THE FORD 427, SOHC
REMEMBER THE OLDS W-30
IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY FOR A HI-PO MODEL THEN DONT ORDER IT..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If only his parents had used a ******.
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
KEN H,
CRAIG 201 MPH
I THINK THAT YOU ARE ON TO WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO,
IF DC OFFERED AN "S" MODEL EVEN AT A RIDICULUS PRICE INCREASE THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING!!
AS FAR AS DC DOING THE R&D FOR AN ADDITIONAL 150HP V-10 THEY COULD DO WHAT MERCEDES USED TO DO. THEY WOULD LET A SUB-CONTRACTOR DO THEY R&D LIKE AMG, OR LIKE FORD DID WITH SHELBY/HOLMAN&MOODY AND SALEEN. THEN OFFER IT THROUGH DC AS AN OPTION.. IS ARROW A SUB-CONTRACTOR??
AS I REMEMBER THE VETTE SR-1 ENGINES WERE BUILT BY YAMAHA MARINE FOR GM.
HELL ISNT DANA A SEPARATE CO AND THE TRANS COMES FROM ANOTHER CO.
CRAIG 201 MPH
I THINK THAT YOU ARE ON TO WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO,
IF DC OFFERED AN "S" MODEL EVEN AT A RIDICULUS PRICE INCREASE THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING!!
AS FAR AS DC DOING THE R&D FOR AN ADDITIONAL 150HP V-10 THEY COULD DO WHAT MERCEDES USED TO DO. THEY WOULD LET A SUB-CONTRACTOR DO THEY R&D LIKE AMG, OR LIKE FORD DID WITH SHELBY/HOLMAN&MOODY AND SALEEN. THEN OFFER IT THROUGH DC AS AN OPTION.. IS ARROW A SUB-CONTRACTOR??
AS I REMEMBER THE VETTE SR-1 ENGINES WERE BUILT BY YAMAHA MARINE FOR GM.
HELL ISNT DANA A SEPARATE CO AND THE TRANS COMES FROM ANOTHER CO.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
KEN H,
CRAIG 201 MPH
I THINK THAT YOU ARE ON TO WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO,
IF DC OFFERED AN "S" MODEL EVEN AT A RIDICULUS PRICE INCREASE THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING!!
AS FAR AS DC DOING THE R&D FOR AN ADDITIONAL 150HP V-10 THEY COULD DO WHAT MERCEDES USED TO DO. THEY WOULD LET A SUB-CONTRACTOR DO THEY R&D LIKE AMG, OR LIKE FORD DID WITH SHELBY/HOLMAN&MOODY AND SALEEN. THEN OFFER IT THROUGH DC AS AN OPTION.. IS ARROW A SUB-CONTRACTOR??
AS I REMEMBER THE VETTE SR-1 ENGINES WERE BUILT BY YAMAHA MARINE FOR GM.
HELL ISNT DANA A SEPARATE CO AND THE TRANS COMES FROM ANOTHER CO.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The LT5s were built by Mercury Marine in Oklahoma and assembled into the
ZR-1 vehicle at Bowling Green
Sorry I can't help it....I never speed:
KEN H,
CRAIG 201 MPH
I THINK THAT YOU ARE ON TO WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO,
IF DC OFFERED AN "S" MODEL EVEN AT A RIDICULUS PRICE INCREASE THAT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING!!
AS FAR AS DC DOING THE R&D FOR AN ADDITIONAL 150HP V-10 THEY COULD DO WHAT MERCEDES USED TO DO. THEY WOULD LET A SUB-CONTRACTOR DO THEY R&D LIKE AMG, OR LIKE FORD DID WITH SHELBY/HOLMAN&MOODY AND SALEEN. THEN OFFER IT THROUGH DC AS AN OPTION.. IS ARROW A SUB-CONTRACTOR??
AS I REMEMBER THE VETTE SR-1 ENGINES WERE BUILT BY YAMAHA MARINE FOR GM.
HELL ISNT DANA A SEPARATE CO AND THE TRANS COMES FROM ANOTHER CO.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The LT5s were built by Mercury Marine in Oklahoma and assembled into the
ZR-1 vehicle at Bowling Green
Sorry I can't help it....I never speed:
lleone
Enthusiast
And yet my question goes unanswered. My wife has bigger ones than execMORON...
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
IIEONE,
OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW YOU WIFES ***** BETTER THAN I EVER WILL! BUT IF I WERE YOU I WONT ADVERTISE HOW ********* THEY ARE AND THAT THE ******* ******** ********!
OBVIOUSLY YOU KNOW YOU WIFES ***** BETTER THAN I EVER WILL! BUT IF I WERE YOU I WONT ADVERTISE HOW ********* THEY ARE AND THAT THE ******* ******** ********!
cstegall
Enthusiast
Exec...
Hey man..you got yourself a good thread going(after your standard psychotic intro.)with over 600 views and 50+ posts and you just can't stand the success. I advised you earlier...grow some thicker skin and keep the thread moving..I have actually gotten some good information from these posts and have old capking to thank.
No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall
Hey man..you got yourself a good thread going(after your standard psychotic intro.)with over 600 views and 50+ posts and you just can't stand the success. I advised you earlier...grow some thicker skin and keep the thread moving..I have actually gotten some good information from these posts and have old capking to thank.
No Flame Intended...Just Observation,
CStegall
Bob Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I can't believe I am using time to respond to an intellectual giant, so Hmm, that should speak for itself.
To get the facts straight Mr. EXEC; D/C has already delivered what you asked for: Starting at 400 hp and going to 500 hp, my math shows that to be 100 hp. That is also 20% difference not 12% depending on your math.
Big cube motors have a couple of different nuances from small ones. Most people are aware that as you grow the cubes the HP/Cube ratio goes down. However low rpm torque goes up.
There are several unseen advantages to low rpm torque as it applies to hustling a car around a track. This discussion is gonna lose you so lets just put it in terms comprehendable: No optional performance upgrade is required (all Vipers already have it) to compare to all of the special performance models of cars you listed on the last three pages of posts. There is not one named that could match the 1/4 mile performance of the Viper. In fact the Viper engine block would be cooled by the time the others crossed the finish line.
May the Lord take pity on your genetic line.
To get the facts straight Mr. EXEC; D/C has already delivered what you asked for: Starting at 400 hp and going to 500 hp, my math shows that to be 100 hp. That is also 20% difference not 12% depending on your math.
Big cube motors have a couple of different nuances from small ones. Most people are aware that as you grow the cubes the HP/Cube ratio goes down. However low rpm torque goes up.
There are several unseen advantages to low rpm torque as it applies to hustling a car around a track. This discussion is gonna lose you so lets just put it in terms comprehendable: No optional performance upgrade is required (all Vipers already have it) to compare to all of the special performance models of cars you listed on the last three pages of posts. There is not one named that could match the 1/4 mile performance of the Viper. In fact the Viper engine block would be cooled by the time the others crossed the finish line.
May the Lord take pity on your genetic line.
genXgts
Enthusiast
When you shut your computer down does the cap lock stay engaged on the next start up?
Volume over substance.
Volume over substance.
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
MR WOODHOUSE,
IF BEFORE YOU RESPOND YOU WOULD READ WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN YOU WOULD LEARN THAT I WAS REFERRING TO THE GEN I AND GEN II CARS.
PERHAPS I AM MISINFORMED WHICH PRE 2003 SRT-10 CAR HAS 500HP??
AGAIN MY MATH MAYBE IN ERROR WOULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW AN INCREASE FROM 400HP TO 450HP IS MORE THAN A 12% INCREASE?
I ALSO CLEARLY SAID THAT IN 10 YEARS FROM 1992-2002 THERE WAS NO MAJOR ENGINE DEVELOPMENT BY DC.
LOOKING AT THE PHOTO OF A CAR ON THE TRACK ATTACHED TO YOUR POST ARE YOU GOING TO REPRESENT THAT THE CAR HAS A BONE STOCK 450HP ENGINE?
I DONT THINK SO!
IF WHAT YOU SAY IS EVEN REMOTELY TRUE WHY ARE THERE SO MANY AFTERMARKET VIPER TUNERS EACH TRYING TO DEVELOP A NEW AND BETTER FORCED INDUCTION/NOS SYSTEM, ECT??
I KNOW IT IS FOR BETTER FUEL ECONOMY!
I HAVE ALSO SEEN HUNDREDS OF POSTS ABOUT MODS TO INCREASE RWHP/TORQUE AND LISTING DYNO RESULTS.
I ALSO LISTED A 700HP RENAULT FI CAR AS ONE OF THE VEHICLES FOR COMPARISON... ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THAT A STOCK VIPER WILL OUT ACCELERATE A 1200LB F-1 CAR WITH 700HP??
IF EVERYONE IS SO DELIGHTED WITH THE STOCK 450HP 488CI VIPER ENGINE WHY IS THERE SO MUCH TIME AND MONEY BEING SPENT ON ENGINE UPGRADES. SOME PEOPLE WILL SPEND AS MUCH ON ENGINE UPGRADES AS THEY PAID FOR THE CAR!
EVEN A RIP OFF ARTIST IN TEXAS SEEMS TO BE MAKING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS SELLING VIPER ENGINE UPGRADES..
**** Sentence removed **** Please, no personal attacks.
DONT YOU THINK??.
IF BEFORE YOU RESPOND YOU WOULD READ WHAT WAS PREVIOUSLY WRITTEN YOU WOULD LEARN THAT I WAS REFERRING TO THE GEN I AND GEN II CARS.
PERHAPS I AM MISINFORMED WHICH PRE 2003 SRT-10 CAR HAS 500HP??
AGAIN MY MATH MAYBE IN ERROR WOULD YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW AN INCREASE FROM 400HP TO 450HP IS MORE THAN A 12% INCREASE?
I ALSO CLEARLY SAID THAT IN 10 YEARS FROM 1992-2002 THERE WAS NO MAJOR ENGINE DEVELOPMENT BY DC.
LOOKING AT THE PHOTO OF A CAR ON THE TRACK ATTACHED TO YOUR POST ARE YOU GOING TO REPRESENT THAT THE CAR HAS A BONE STOCK 450HP ENGINE?
I DONT THINK SO!
IF WHAT YOU SAY IS EVEN REMOTELY TRUE WHY ARE THERE SO MANY AFTERMARKET VIPER TUNERS EACH TRYING TO DEVELOP A NEW AND BETTER FORCED INDUCTION/NOS SYSTEM, ECT??
I KNOW IT IS FOR BETTER FUEL ECONOMY!
I HAVE ALSO SEEN HUNDREDS OF POSTS ABOUT MODS TO INCREASE RWHP/TORQUE AND LISTING DYNO RESULTS.
I ALSO LISTED A 700HP RENAULT FI CAR AS ONE OF THE VEHICLES FOR COMPARISON... ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY THAT A STOCK VIPER WILL OUT ACCELERATE A 1200LB F-1 CAR WITH 700HP??
IF EVERYONE IS SO DELIGHTED WITH THE STOCK 450HP 488CI VIPER ENGINE WHY IS THERE SO MUCH TIME AND MONEY BEING SPENT ON ENGINE UPGRADES. SOME PEOPLE WILL SPEND AS MUCH ON ENGINE UPGRADES AS THEY PAID FOR THE CAR!
EVEN A RIP OFF ARTIST IN TEXAS SEEMS TO BE MAKING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS SELLING VIPER ENGINE UPGRADES..
**** Sentence removed **** Please, no personal attacks.
DONT YOU THINK??.
Snakester
Enthusiast
I don't think that there is a single car sold that certain people won't want MORE power from. That actually is one of the difficulties with high HP/L cars. They are so stressed out and tweaked from the factory that they cannot really be modded much with aftermarket products.
It's unlikely that you can pull an extra 100HP out of a S2000 or an M3. At least without sacrificing reliability adversely, let alone maintaining emissions compliance.
Outside of full race cars, expensive exotic cars, and extreme aftermarket modded cars, there are so few other cars with the (stock) Viper's acceleration capabilities.
That's why it's not a problem.
I can see if you were complaining about a car that was relatively underpowered from the beginning not being improved upon over years.
But the Viper started out with 400HP, which even today is a lot of power from the factory, especially considering the ample torque. The power jumped to 450HP (actually about 470HP on average) with the GenII models, and now has 500HP+ for the new SRT10 model.
There are always people for whom "too much power" is not a valid term. And satisfying them (for a price)is generally what the aftermarket business is all about.
But saying that performance improvement successes of aftermarket companies shows up a need for higher factory performance is a stretch at best.
Is the new SVT flawed because it "only" produces 400hp? Should they put a blower, or throw a 427 motor in the new Corvette to make it faster still?
More performance usually has it's cost, and reliability, drivability, economy, emissions, and price are all in balance against adding more power.
Just because it's possible to get more power doesn't make it the best choice.
It's unlikely that you can pull an extra 100HP out of a S2000 or an M3. At least without sacrificing reliability adversely, let alone maintaining emissions compliance.
Outside of full race cars, expensive exotic cars, and extreme aftermarket modded cars, there are so few other cars with the (stock) Viper's acceleration capabilities.
That's why it's not a problem.
I can see if you were complaining about a car that was relatively underpowered from the beginning not being improved upon over years.
But the Viper started out with 400HP, which even today is a lot of power from the factory, especially considering the ample torque. The power jumped to 450HP (actually about 470HP on average) with the GenII models, and now has 500HP+ for the new SRT10 model.
There are always people for whom "too much power" is not a valid term. And satisfying them (for a price)is generally what the aftermarket business is all about.
But saying that performance improvement successes of aftermarket companies shows up a need for higher factory performance is a stretch at best.
Is the new SVT flawed because it "only" produces 400hp? Should they put a blower, or throw a 427 motor in the new Corvette to make it faster still?
More performance usually has it's cost, and reliability, drivability, economy, emissions, and price are all in balance against adding more power.
Just because it's possible to get more power doesn't make it the best choice.
joe117
Enthusiast
I still don't see why EXCE is getting all this flame. He questioned some Viper qualities and some people jumped on him. He called them morons, sort of, and now people are on his case about that. His use of caps isn't worth more than a mention, if that.
My point is, he seems to be stirring up some worthwhile discussion. I don't think his posts are out of line in any way. Give the guy a break. If you don't like what he says, ignore him. What's all the fighting about?
My point is, he seems to be stirring up some worthwhile discussion. I don't think his posts are out of line in any way. Give the guy a break. If you don't like what he says, ignore him. What's all the fighting about?
There is actually some value to these posts, as they bring up the point of volume vs. price.
When ANY car company decides to manufacture their next models (whether they originated from a concept..or not), they have to look at how many they project will be purchased, how large the plant/s would have to be, and what price would allow them to "make their numbers work".
Maybach can have the techno-gizadry, and the engine technology available, as this car will sell for a much higher price point than we would EVER be willing to spend on our Snakes!
Additionally, even S class machines sell in much higher quantities, and at a much higher price.
WE, the Viper enthusiasts, are a niche market segment. We LOVE power, and we LOVE torque, yet we are not convinced that high horsepower and great handling (READ: Supercar performance) has to come at the price of a Modena, or SL55. That's where the Viper concept comes in! A Cobra style performer... bare bones .. yet unbeatable.
Through the years, Dodge has listened to our rather minor suggestions (like staying dry in the rain), neutral gear rattle elimination, more horsepower, ABS (more an issue of publishing better braking stats than owner complaints), and did I say... more horsepower, but has continued to keep the Viper philosophy of bare bones brute horsepower alive. "Tons" of equipment? I don't think so, but A/C & ABS have plenty of plus's and very few minus's. Airbags aren't a DC decision (unless you consider making the car DOT legal a decision).
Can a engine make more horsepower with less displacement? Sure, but why is that better? What we have is HUGE torque, right across the RPM range, with bulletproof reliability, without any power adders. Less moving parts, less problems!
When ANY car company decides to manufacture their next models (whether they originated from a concept..or not), they have to look at how many they project will be purchased, how large the plant/s would have to be, and what price would allow them to "make their numbers work".
Maybach can have the techno-gizadry, and the engine technology available, as this car will sell for a much higher price point than we would EVER be willing to spend on our Snakes!
Additionally, even S class machines sell in much higher quantities, and at a much higher price.
WE, the Viper enthusiasts, are a niche market segment. We LOVE power, and we LOVE torque, yet we are not convinced that high horsepower and great handling (READ: Supercar performance) has to come at the price of a Modena, or SL55. That's where the Viper concept comes in! A Cobra style performer... bare bones .. yet unbeatable.
Through the years, Dodge has listened to our rather minor suggestions (like staying dry in the rain), neutral gear rattle elimination, more horsepower, ABS (more an issue of publishing better braking stats than owner complaints), and did I say... more horsepower, but has continued to keep the Viper philosophy of bare bones brute horsepower alive. "Tons" of equipment? I don't think so, but A/C & ABS have plenty of plus's and very few minus's. Airbags aren't a DC decision (unless you consider making the car DOT legal a decision).
Can a engine make more horsepower with less displacement? Sure, but why is that better? What we have is HUGE torque, right across the RPM range, with bulletproof reliability, without any power adders. Less moving parts, less problems!
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joe117:
I still don't see why EXCE is getting all this flame. He questioned some Viper qualities and some people jumped on him. He called them morons, sort of, and now people are on his case about that. His use of caps isn't worth more than a mention, if that.
My point is, he seems to be stirring up some worthwhile discussion. I don't think his posts are out of line in any way. Give the guy a break. If you don't like what he says, ignore him. What's all the fighting about?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
NO he's not, he continually posts this crap. The Viper isn't about hp/liter, extravagant option packages, butt massagers or having a SRT-10KOMPRESSOR.
He clearly does not GET what the Viper is about, he'd call Lutz, Gale, Iaccoca and Shelby morons. He whines and cries continually about lost value. BOO HOO! It's his attitude that gets him flamed and then he comes back with his attempted braggart post about the maybach with it's insane h.p. But I ask him this, how much does it weigh? Is he aware of how much h.p. those huge CAT mining dumptrucks have? If he had 1/10th a brain he's realize that it's all relative, as it's HP/weight, not hp/liter.
www.getaclue.com
I still don't see why EXCE is getting all this flame. He questioned some Viper qualities and some people jumped on him. He called them morons, sort of, and now people are on his case about that. His use of caps isn't worth more than a mention, if that.
My point is, he seems to be stirring up some worthwhile discussion. I don't think his posts are out of line in any way. Give the guy a break. If you don't like what he says, ignore him. What's all the fighting about?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
NO he's not, he continually posts this crap. The Viper isn't about hp/liter, extravagant option packages, butt massagers or having a SRT-10KOMPRESSOR.
He clearly does not GET what the Viper is about, he'd call Lutz, Gale, Iaccoca and Shelby morons. He whines and cries continually about lost value. BOO HOO! It's his attitude that gets him flamed and then he comes back with his attempted braggart post about the maybach with it's insane h.p. But I ask him this, how much does it weigh? Is he aware of how much h.p. those huge CAT mining dumptrucks have? If he had 1/10th a brain he's realize that it's all relative, as it's HP/weight, not hp/liter.
www.getaclue.com
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
MOST OF YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT!!
THE VIPER IS GREAT!!
IT IS A ROCKET AND A BLAST TO DRIVE!
BUT!!!!!
VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER CAR HAS SEEN MAJOR DEVELOPMENT AND UPGRADES IN PERFORMANCE BY THE MANUFACTURER OVER TIME AS A STANDARD PRACTICE .
THE VIPER HAS SEEN VERY LITTLE AS FAR AS INCREASED PERFORMANCE SINCE IT WAS FIRST PRODUCDED OVER 10 YEARS AGO. A 12% INCREASE IN 10 YEARS (1992-2002) IS NOTHING..
IT IS AN AGREED UPON FACT THAT WITH VERY LITTLE $$$ AND EFFORT DC COULD HAVE EASILY INCREASED THE VIPER ENGINES OUTPUT BY WELL OVER 100+HP AND ADDED MORE TORQUE AND STILL BE EMISSION LEGAL.THE TUNERS DO IT WITH NO PROBLEM!(HEADS,CAM,ROCKERS)
WHEN I POINTED THIS OUT IN THE PAST THE RESPONSE WAS THAT "NO RESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY WILL EVER PRODUCE A CAR WITH OVER 500HP FOR THE STREET" WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE!
ALSO THE OTHER CARS ALL SEEM TO HAVE A BIG BROTHER FOR THOSE WITH THE $$!
VETTE- C-5, C-6
PORSCHE - GT-1,GT-2
FERRARI- ENZO
MUSTANG- SALEEN,COBRA,+
JAG-XKR
MERCEDES-SL55,SL600,AMG
THE VIPER IS GREAT!!
IT IS A ROCKET AND A BLAST TO DRIVE!
BUT!!!!!
VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER CAR HAS SEEN MAJOR DEVELOPMENT AND UPGRADES IN PERFORMANCE BY THE MANUFACTURER OVER TIME AS A STANDARD PRACTICE .
THE VIPER HAS SEEN VERY LITTLE AS FAR AS INCREASED PERFORMANCE SINCE IT WAS FIRST PRODUCDED OVER 10 YEARS AGO. A 12% INCREASE IN 10 YEARS (1992-2002) IS NOTHING..
IT IS AN AGREED UPON FACT THAT WITH VERY LITTLE $$$ AND EFFORT DC COULD HAVE EASILY INCREASED THE VIPER ENGINES OUTPUT BY WELL OVER 100+HP AND ADDED MORE TORQUE AND STILL BE EMISSION LEGAL.THE TUNERS DO IT WITH NO PROBLEM!(HEADS,CAM,ROCKERS)
WHEN I POINTED THIS OUT IN THE PAST THE RESPONSE WAS THAT "NO RESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY WILL EVER PRODUCE A CAR WITH OVER 500HP FOR THE STREET" WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE!
ALSO THE OTHER CARS ALL SEEM TO HAVE A BIG BROTHER FOR THOSE WITH THE $$!
VETTE- C-5, C-6
PORSCHE - GT-1,GT-2
FERRARI- ENZO
MUSTANG- SALEEN,COBRA,+
JAG-XKR
MERCEDES-SL55,SL600,AMG
monnieh
Viper Owner
EXECMALIBU shut up.
Sell your Viper to someone who deserves it (that is if you even really own a Viper)
Now take your Peter Puffer ***bait self down to your local Chevey dealer and go buy you a Malibu Barbie Corvette. That clearly would fit your personality.
Sell your Viper to someone who deserves it (that is if you even really own a Viper)
Now take your Peter Puffer ***bait self down to your local Chevey dealer and go buy you a Malibu Barbie Corvette. That clearly would fit your personality.
Snakester
Enthusiast
The SL55 is a luxury car, and Mercedes has been following the HP wars and added superchargers to most of their car line to boost the power. But it's also a 4500lb portly beast, that I don't expect to be fearing anytime soon.
HP/L is a point of specifications, and has very little importance in the REAL world. Japanese and European cars differentiate themselves by building hi-tech drivetrains into smaller cars. They usually have smaller roads to drive on, and gas costs MUCH more than it does here, so they have to make their cars more efficient and smaller.
Most cars that are designed for high HP like the Honda S2000 severely lack torque, and accelerate poorly unless they are thrashed. If that brings some sort of boasting priviledge, I don't want it.
List all of the cars that get to 60MPH in 4 seconds or less, and the 1/4 mile in 12 or less. OK, how many of them are available in the U.S. through dealers for less money than the Viper?
None.
An the only car that comes close in performance (for even less money) is the Z06 Corvette, which also has a simple OHV, lower HP/L rating.
Adding superchargers and engine complexity can greatly reduce reliability (as well as increasing cost). The new SVT Cobra, and high HP BMW E46 M3 are good examples of this.
The new SRT-10 Viper added some refinement, and enhanced the overall performance of the Viper. Which is important.
And just adding HP is not necessarily always an improvement.
In C&D's supertuner comparison, many tuners added significant mods (blowers/turbos/etc..) which increase the power, but on street tires the actual improvement in performance is not as great as the numbers would indicate, because getting over 400HP to the ground is not a simple task.
The design of the Viper having a big, understressed motor is NOT a flaw, but a choice. It suits most owners well, and you can always tweak your own Viper to make more power if it suits you. And for much less than the higher HP/L European exotics cost.
-Dean.
HP/L is a point of specifications, and has very little importance in the REAL world. Japanese and European cars differentiate themselves by building hi-tech drivetrains into smaller cars. They usually have smaller roads to drive on, and gas costs MUCH more than it does here, so they have to make their cars more efficient and smaller.
Most cars that are designed for high HP like the Honda S2000 severely lack torque, and accelerate poorly unless they are thrashed. If that brings some sort of boasting priviledge, I don't want it.
List all of the cars that get to 60MPH in 4 seconds or less, and the 1/4 mile in 12 or less. OK, how many of them are available in the U.S. through dealers for less money than the Viper?
None.
An the only car that comes close in performance (for even less money) is the Z06 Corvette, which also has a simple OHV, lower HP/L rating.
Adding superchargers and engine complexity can greatly reduce reliability (as well as increasing cost). The new SVT Cobra, and high HP BMW E46 M3 are good examples of this.
The new SRT-10 Viper added some refinement, and enhanced the overall performance of the Viper. Which is important.
And just adding HP is not necessarily always an improvement.
In C&D's supertuner comparison, many tuners added significant mods (blowers/turbos/etc..) which increase the power, but on street tires the actual improvement in performance is not as great as the numbers would indicate, because getting over 400HP to the ground is not a simple task.
The design of the Viper having a big, understressed motor is NOT a flaw, but a choice. It suits most owners well, and you can always tweak your own Viper to make more power if it suits you. And for much less than the higher HP/L European exotics cost.
-Dean.
Craig 201 MPH
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EXECMALIBU:
MOST OF YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT!!
THE VIPER IS GREAT!!
IT IS A ROCKET AND A BLAST TO DRIVE!
BUT!!!!!
VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER CAR HAS SEEN MAJOR DEVELOPMENT AND UPGRADES IN PERFORMANCE BY THE MANUFACTURER OVER TIME AS A STANDARD PRACTICE .
THE VIPER HAS SEEN VERY LITTLE AS FAR AS INCREASED PERFORMANCE SINCE IT WAS FIRST PRODUCDED OVER 10 YEARS AGO. A 12% INCREASE IN 10 YEARS (1992-2002) IS NOTHING..
IT IS AN AGREED UPON FACT THAT WITH VERY LITTLE $$$ AND EFFORT DC COULD HAVE EASILY INCREASED THE VIPER ENGINES OUTPUT BY WELL OVER 100+HP AND ADDED MORE TORQUE AND STILL BE EMISSION LEGAL.THE TUNERS DO IT WITH NO PROBLEM!(HEADS,CAM,ROCKERS)
WHEN I POINTED THIS OUT IN THE PAST THE RESPONSE WAS THAT "NO RESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY WILL EVER PRODUCE A CAR WITH OVER 500HP FOR THE STREET" WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE!
ALSO THE OTHER CARS ALL SEEM TO HAVE A BIG BROTHER FOR THOSE WITH THE $$!
VETTE- C-5, C-6
PORSCHE - GT-1,GT-2
FERRARI- ENZO
MUSTANG- SALEEN,COBRA,+
JAG-XKR
MERCEDES-SL55,SL600,AMG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh dear god, were you that kid in class that had to stay in during recess to have explained how 2+2 works?
Please just sell your car and go buy a superexotic for 250K that will break down every 50 miles because it produces 100 more horses but is not faster than a Viper. Better yet, why not just send your car to a tuner? Some people don't want to spend 100K+ for a 650 h.p. viper, having as an option wouldn't be economic, why do you think there isn't anymore 2-door neons.
For the $$ you cannot beat a Viper. More power=more stress on the engine which = less lifetime of the engine. It's a pretty simple concept, but I figure I might as well point that out so hopefully we can be on the same page.
Tomorrow's lesson: saying goodbye to velcro, lets learn how to tie shoes!
MOST OF YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT!!
THE VIPER IS GREAT!!
IT IS A ROCKET AND A BLAST TO DRIVE!
BUT!!!!!
VIRTUALLY EVERY OTHER CAR HAS SEEN MAJOR DEVELOPMENT AND UPGRADES IN PERFORMANCE BY THE MANUFACTURER OVER TIME AS A STANDARD PRACTICE .
THE VIPER HAS SEEN VERY LITTLE AS FAR AS INCREASED PERFORMANCE SINCE IT WAS FIRST PRODUCDED OVER 10 YEARS AGO. A 12% INCREASE IN 10 YEARS (1992-2002) IS NOTHING..
IT IS AN AGREED UPON FACT THAT WITH VERY LITTLE $$$ AND EFFORT DC COULD HAVE EASILY INCREASED THE VIPER ENGINES OUTPUT BY WELL OVER 100+HP AND ADDED MORE TORQUE AND STILL BE EMISSION LEGAL.THE TUNERS DO IT WITH NO PROBLEM!(HEADS,CAM,ROCKERS)
WHEN I POINTED THIS OUT IN THE PAST THE RESPONSE WAS THAT "NO RESPONSIBLE CAR COMPANY WILL EVER PRODUCE A CAR WITH OVER 500HP FOR THE STREET" WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE!
ALSO THE OTHER CARS ALL SEEM TO HAVE A BIG BROTHER FOR THOSE WITH THE $$!
VETTE- C-5, C-6
PORSCHE - GT-1,GT-2
FERRARI- ENZO
MUSTANG- SALEEN,COBRA,+
JAG-XKR
MERCEDES-SL55,SL600,AMG
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh dear god, were you that kid in class that had to stay in during recess to have explained how 2+2 works?
Please just sell your car and go buy a superexotic for 250K that will break down every 50 miles because it produces 100 more horses but is not faster than a Viper. Better yet, why not just send your car to a tuner? Some people don't want to spend 100K+ for a 650 h.p. viper, having as an option wouldn't be economic, why do you think there isn't anymore 2-door neons.
For the $$ you cannot beat a Viper. More power=more stress on the engine which = less lifetime of the engine. It's a pretty simple concept, but I figure I might as well point that out so hopefully we can be on the same page.
Tomorrow's lesson: saying goodbye to velcro, lets learn how to tie shoes!
George Murray
Enthusiast
I didn't know power windows were high-tech.
Cool...my 76 Gran Fury cop car is high-tech. I'm cancelling my Maybach order forthwith.
Cool...my 76 Gran Fury cop car is high-tech. I'm cancelling my Maybach order forthwith.
George Murray
Enthusiast
You tell 'em, Bob W.
Hey EXEC "FILM PRODUCER":
Your secretary said ****** called...they really dig the latest altar boy outfit you wear in your latest production.
Hey EXEC "FILM PRODUCER":
Your secretary said ****** called...they really dig the latest altar boy outfit you wear in your latest production.
EXECMALIBU
Enthusiast
EXCUUUUUUSE ME!
THE ORIGINAL VIPER DESIGN TEAM WANTED THE CAR VERY BASIC AND INTENTIONALLY ELIMINATED THE DOOR GLASS AND ALL MECHANISMS. THEY SUPPLIED RIDICULUS CLOTH SIDE CURTAINS LIKE THE ONES FOR MY 1957 PORSCHE SPEEDSTER.
EVEN MY 1965 COBRA HAD PLASTIC SLIDE OPENING SIDE CURTAINS! THE VIPER SEEMED ULTRA LOW TECH TO ME!
WHAT TERM WOULD YOU USE TO DESCRIBE THE COMPLETE REDESIGN OF THE ENTIRE DOOR FROM BEING TOTALLY EMPTY WITH CLOTH SIDE CURTAINS TO POWER WINDOWS WITH ELECTRIC DOOR HANDLES?
IS KEYLESS REMOTE ENTRY CONSIDERED HIGH TECH? OR SPEED DETECTING SELF LOCKING DOORS?
THE ORIGINAL VIPER DESIGN TEAM WANTED THE CAR VERY BASIC AND INTENTIONALLY ELIMINATED THE DOOR GLASS AND ALL MECHANISMS. THEY SUPPLIED RIDICULUS CLOTH SIDE CURTAINS LIKE THE ONES FOR MY 1957 PORSCHE SPEEDSTER.
EVEN MY 1965 COBRA HAD PLASTIC SLIDE OPENING SIDE CURTAINS! THE VIPER SEEMED ULTRA LOW TECH TO ME!
WHAT TERM WOULD YOU USE TO DESCRIBE THE COMPLETE REDESIGN OF THE ENTIRE DOOR FROM BEING TOTALLY EMPTY WITH CLOTH SIDE CURTAINS TO POWER WINDOWS WITH ELECTRIC DOOR HANDLES?
IS KEYLESS REMOTE ENTRY CONSIDERED HIGH TECH? OR SPEED DETECTING SELF LOCKING DOORS?
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