Water/**** ?'s

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I just got my Viper home that I bought from the Classifieds. It has a W/M kit on it (no sure the brand) and was told that I could use Windshield washer fluid in it. The windshield washer fluid I have says "Alcohol Exempt" on the box but in the poison info on the jug it claims that it contains Methyl Alcohol. Can anyone tell me if this is safe to run? The brand is "Laurentide -40, 4 seasons".

Also the jug for the W/M was empty and the switch was turned on and I know that the pump ran some under boost (there's a light that indicates when it is on). Is this a problem? I have it shut off now but want to know if the pump may have been damaged.

Thanks.
 

plumcrazy

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IMO, you should cal the guy who tuned the car for WM. im not a fan of the stuff personally.

is your car boosted ? what are the mods ? does it need WM ?
 
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Yes it has a Roe setup on it. I want to run the WM and was told buy the previous owner that the first owner ran Windshield wash in it. He ran **** because he was in California and the right kind is hard to find. Here is a link to the classified ad.

Supercharged Viper GTS on HREs - ViperClub Classifieds

I have done some reading today and it seems that if it is colored blue that it is the correct stuff. This is the color of what I have.
 

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Yep, that's the stuff. It has 50% by weight.
Generally the blue is always going to work, but its best to check the label for this when purchasing.

I wouldn't worry about the pump as much as the tune on the car. If you are tuned for w/m and its not working, you can do some damage from running lean. Luckily you are a 98 and should have forged pistons so you have a safety barrier, but detonation will kill any engine. The pump only runs for a few seconds per pass, so it should be fine if you only ran it without fluid a couple times.
 

plumcrazy

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i dont know if there is an altitude change from where you are to where it was tuned but id look into the tune to be safe. at that power level, the roes seem to be fine with no WM and very little issues. just confirm the tune
 
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Yep, that's the stuff. It has 50% by weight.
Generally the blue is always going to work, but its best to check the label for this when purchasing.

I wouldn't worry about the pump as much as the tune on the car. If you are tuned for w/m and its not working, you can do some damage from running lean. Luckily you are a 98 and should have forged pistons so you have a safety barrier, but detonation will kill any engine. The pump only runs for a few seconds per pass, so it should be fine if you only ran it without fluid a couple times.

The car runs 11-1 without the **** and 10-1 with it. I was told by the seller that the tune currently in the car is safe both with and without the ****.

How do you know that it is safe? Just for future reference. Is there an easy way to tell if certain washer fluid will work? Other than the color. Where did you get the percent **** from? So this would be the equivilant of a 50/50 mix? I only ask in case I ran out and had to buy some on the road and wwould want to make sure it is safe.
i dont know if there is an altitude change from where you are to where it was tuned but id look into the tune to be safe. at that power level, the roes seem to be fine with no WM and very little issues. just confirm the tune

I am about 700 feet above sea level. My problem is that I have no idea of where the closet tuner would be. I'm not comfortable with anyone around me. I live on the Maine border for reference.
 

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You can use it for now, but I would highly recommend the VP methanol mixed with water. It is the only methanol that apparently has been formulated and tested not to harm the internal workings of your engine. This is not something you need to concern yourself in the short term. But in the long term personally I would rather be safe than sorry.
 
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You can use it for now, but I would highly recommend the VP methanol mixed with water. It is the only methanol that apparently has been formulated and tested not to harm the internal workings of your engine. This is not something you need to concern yourself in the short term. But in the long term personally I would rather be safe than sorry.


This concerns me as well. Mainly because there is such a difference of opinions on the subject. It would be real convenient if I could use the washer fluid and not have to worry about it. If I were to mix my own what is it that I buy, methanol?
 

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This concerns me as well. Mainly because there is such a difference of opinions on the subject. It would be real convenient if I could use the washer fluid and not have to worry about it. If I were to mix my own what is it that I buy, methanol?

Yes you can buy Methanol from VP in 5 gallon cans. You can also sometimes find it at a local drag strip. I mix it 50/50 with distilled water.
 
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I'm curious to see what other people have to say about burning washer fluid instead of mixing methanol with water.
 

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Not that tough guys...just takes some "Oh Yea" moments. For example. The auto center on base has four different kinds of washer fluid. Some yellow gunk that is only good for bugs and road grime. No methanol in it. SOme blue fluid that states not to be used in freezing conditions...aka no methanol in it. Some other identical blue stuff that is good to 10 degrees...so some methanol in it...and the stuff I get that is good to -40 degrees. That is the stuff with the most methanol in it. Moral of the sotry...read the lable and see to what temp it protects. You gotta get the stuff that protects in sub-freezing conditions at a minimum. Otherwise its just a poor man's Windex. I also keep fom pure methanol on hand as well just to be sure.
 

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The car runs 11-1 without the **** and 10-1 with it. I was told by the seller that the tune currently in the car is safe both with and without the ****.

How do you know that it is safe? Just for future reference. Is there an easy way to tell if certain washer fluid will work? Other than the color. Where did you get the percent **** from? So this would be the equivilant of a 50/50 mix? I only ask in case I ran out and had to buy some on the road and wwould want to make sure it is safe.


I am about 700 feet above sea level. My problem is that I have no idea of where the closet tuner would be. I'm not comfortable with anyone around me. I live on the Maine border for reference.

You need a WB to see what your AFRs are running at.

The MSD sheet you posted gave the % in the hazardous ingredients section.

Yes, there is some argument about whether or not to use washer fluid. Most of the cheap blue washer fluids are just water, methanol, a drop of glycerin, and blue dye. The glycerin and dye are the only things people have a problem with. The dye will color your intake blue, and the glycerin can gum up in your manifold and heads. But nobody has ever claimed washer fluid ruined their engine.
There is a small group that claims the mixture is inconsistent, but the % differences they are crying over is insignificant.

With that said, I mix my own. I buy a 5gal. container of 100% ****, 5gal. of distilled water, and a mix it all with a gallon of blue washer fluid.
Why mix in the washer fluid?
Because water and methanol are colorless and I use the blue to show that I have mixed it. Otherwise I might not know if its 100% **** or 50% ****. The blue is diluted so much in 10gal. that its very faint.
I can buy the **** for $30 for 5gal. and 5gal. of distilled water for under $5, and a gal. of washer fluid for about a $1. So for about $3/gal. I have my own 50/50 water/**** mixture.

However, I would not have a problem running straight blue washer fluid in a pinch.
 

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Comming from the turbo Buick world I have a good bit of experience with **** inj. Best thing to do is go to home depot and buy distilled alcohol. Its a bit more expensive than **** but will work much better than the washer fluid. The yellow bottle of heat is also an option as it is pure ****. Personally I would run 100% mix myself but others may disagree.
Here is some good reading for you.
Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech - TurboBuick.Com
 

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I also use VP Racing Methanol, having it come on when my blower hits 3 lbs. of boost. I use interchangeably their original M1 and their newer M5. I purposely had my engine tuned without it so that it wasn't dependent on the ****. If your pump can handle straight methanol, I would run that over a water mix, as it will deliver more power than water - BUT it has to be set up correctly (like everything) as too much straight methanol can result in backfires (possibly taking out your MAF or throttle body) or cause cylinder wash. Too much water/**** will simply quench the flame and bog the engine. I use about a gallon every 4 tanks of gas, and have been using it for years without problems.

Depending on the pump's design, it could get damaged if run dry for prolonged periods of time, but your pump might not come on if you're not getting into boost, and possibly only for seconds at a time, so it might never have overheated causing damage. It really depends how it was set up as part of your tune. You could always pull out the **** jet and visually see that it is operating.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. I just wanted to be sure it was alright to use washer fluid. I'm going to buy methanol and mix my own using Bottlefeds trick. I'll use the washer fluid in a jam.


I filled the bottle last night and it was leaking so I fixed it. It is the windsheild washer bottle. While doing that I noticed that the solenoid was unplugged. Is that why my windshield wash doesn't work? If I'm running washer fluid could I hook it back up? If I ran water/**** mix would it be alright to hook it up?
 

Viper Grenade

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How much w/m mixed is used during the buring of a full take of fuel?

For example: I burn 1 gal of w/m for 1 tank full of pump gas during sprited moutain driving.
 

99 R/T 10

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The car runs 11-1 without the **** and 10-1 with it. I was told by the seller that the tune currently in the car is safe both with and without the ****.

How do you know that it is safe? Just for future reference. Is there an easy way to tell if certain washer fluid will work? Other than the color. Where did you get the percent **** from? So this would be the equivilant of a 50/50 mix? I only ask in case I ran out and had to buy some on the road and wwould want to make sure it is safe.


I am about 700 feet above sea level. My problem is that I have no idea of where the closet tuner would be. I'm not comfortable with anyone around me. I live on the Maine border for reference.


Without the W/M, you running too rich, with the W/M you're running WAY too rich. You need to get the car re-tuned, there is 40-50 RWHP still to be had. Shoot for 11.8 without or about 11.5 with. Adding in a little timing can correct it and add the power :2tu:
 
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Without the W/M, you running too rich, with the W/M you're running WAY too rich. You need to get the car re-tuned, there is 40-50 RWHP still to be had. Shoot for 11.8 without or about 11.5 with. Adding in a little timing can correct it and add the power :2tu:



Is it possible to get the car tuned this way and make it safe to run with and without **** on the same tune? I don't want to be worried about the car if I run out of ****. I was told that this is the way it is tuned now, but if I can get some extra power out and still be safe that would be perfect.
 

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Is it possible to get the car tuned this way and make it safe to run with and without **** on the same tune? I don't want to be worried about the car if I run out of ****. I was told that this is the way it is tuned now, but if I can get some extra power out and still be safe that would be perfect.
Mike (99R/T10) is right on the money.
You are running way too rich, even on the w/m. Get it tuned for 11.8 off the w/m so you know you are safe (I have been told by some unnamed viper tuners you can tune up to 12.2afr on forged pistons). Then have the w/m come on with that tune and see where you're at. This way you are safe if the w/m stops working. Also have the tuner make sure the timing is safe off the w/m as well - 5° retartded from stock should be a good starting point.
This way you will have a safe all-around tune that you don't have to worry about the w/m working or not.

W/M is great on Roe cars because it adds the intercooling that is missing . Even though you don't need it to keep your car from blowing the motor, it does help make the car run better/cooler, and adds some extra safety to the tune.
 

BOTTLEFED

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...and if you get crazy like me, you can advance the timing to get max power on the w/m. You could probably see 640+rwhp out it with an edgy tune ;)
 

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Hey BOTTLEFED, if you're really crazy, why not 100% ****:D?
Water actually prevents detonation better than ****... and that's most important with cast pistons ;)

But really there are even more scientific reasons I like a mix better than pure ****.
Water also adds some oxygen (O2) and thus more air in the combustion chamber to compress, whereas **** only adds fuel to burn. I have plenty of fuel, along with the 50% **** that is being injected.
Water is better at quenching preigniton/detonation.
Water cools the air charge better because it absorbs more heat than ****.
This is why I like a 50/50 mix. 100% **** is for those that are lacking enough fuel injection ability, so must rely on the **** as an additional fuel source. I really doubt I would get anymore rwhp from tuning with 100% **** in my setup.
 

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Sean tole me WW -40 fluid is OK to use and what most cars are tuned for. My GTS/Roe car has a 2 gallon tank in the trunk.

My Paxton was tuned with 100% Methanol in the WW bottle. The ACR has a Snow injection system.

Problem with Alcohol is that it absorbs water easily. If you leave an open WW jug sitting around the water out of the atmosphere will be absorbed as well as Alcohol evaporating. The only way to be certain of the correct mixture is to use premium quality products and mis it yourself. Keeping in mind that the WW bottle in you car is vented and ope to atmosphere so you might want to park the car with minimal fluid in it and fill it with fresh evertime you bring the car out of storage.

Here in canada Alcohol isn't easy to procure (Gov regs) and it has Green Taxes on it. WW is easy to come by, although I did get charged $4.99 + 12% HST last week for 1 gallon of WW.

Ted
 

RTTTTed

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550rwhp means stock and 8# boost? My stocker with Roe 98 GTS made 600rwhp/644rwtq. It also had Roe w/m injection, RT Catback and Roe Hiflows.

Ted
 
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