What is the advatage to the water to air cooled vz the air cooled S/C??

[Qualitywires.com]

I am looking at the Paxton set up and would like to know what is the difference of water to air cooled vs the aircooled intercoolers? Is there an advatage over one?

Also,

Who do you think will have more upgradable HP on their system?

Roe vs Paxton set up?

Thanks.

 

[KingSnake97]

AB, I,m looking to do the same and have done a little home work. This is what I got. In air to air systems, the charge air at the supercharger discharge is ducted to a heat exchanger (IC) assembly, it is cooled and then continued on to the engine inlet. the (IC) must be placed where the outside air passes throught it. Air to air systems have little significant thermal transition. This means that the relatively low mass of the (IC) system heats and cools almost instatly and the system relies on its effectiveness for any benefits.

And on the other hand.

Air to water system the air at the supercharger discharge is ducted to a heat exchanger assembly, cooled and then continues to the engine inlet very much like air to air. however, the air to water heat exchanger assembly does not need direct exposer to outside air and it can be much smaller to save space. hope this helps a little. not for sure about any big hp diffrence. from what I can tell its all about space and size in the engine compartment. notice on the heffner and DLM vehicles the IC is large and up front between the bumper and radiator. I,m still doing some research so I'll let you know what I find out.

Turan

 

[KingSnake97]

And one more thing ok maybe two more things...,
Per vortech the air to water has
Better charge cooling, reduced fricitional losses, the SC does not have to work as hard, better street performance, and even better strip performance. and some systems allow the use of ice for a added charge cooling for drag racing.

 

[GaryA]

In my opinion, the air-to-air intercooler is much more practical for street applications. If you're mostly drag racing you can fill the water-to-air i/c between runs and get the most advantage of the cold air.

However, (and this is from experience) if you're running on the street, the ice will melt and the water will warm up very quickly rendering it pretty useless for cooling down the heat exchanger.

The air-to-air intercooler on my car (Heffner S/C) added nearly 200 rwhp!! I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it. We experimented with a water-to-air system and the results were good from an HP standpoint, but as I mentioned, the cool air was short lived.

The main advantage of a water-to-air i/c is size and the ability to cool the intake air much more than ambient (as is the case with air-to-air), but it is short lived as the water heats up quickly in the water-to-air i/c.

 

[Torquemonster]

Gary is right - the air to air is the most hassle free way to get consistent power.

With the water type - the water heats up and unless you plan on manually cooling it down each run - will not match the air to air intercooler for very long before it starts losing efficiency. You can always add a water sprayer over an air to air for additional cooling.

The super-cooled water types are really just for dyno queens or serious drag racing, one good street blast and the cold is gone.

Gale Banks used water to air on his record running Dodge pickup but he towed a TRAILER full of frozen goodies to the Salt Flats to keep the thing cool on its runs - not practical for a daily driver. If you want power on the street - air to air is the only way IMHO - and I've used both.

 

[Paxton-Rep]

Here is a quote from Paxton on the air-water advantage:

" Having Liquid on the cold side of the exchanger results in several very important advantages. First, water is over 9 times more conductive than air, so, the overall heat transfer coefficient is dramatically improved- many times per unit fin area over air-air. This affords a much more compact heat exchanger design. Secondly, the pressure loss on the air on the air passage side is greatly reduced by the reduciton in heat exchanger size and by the "open" fin area design. Compactness allows the cooler to be placed directly "in the run" from the supercharger to engine-little to no increase in ducting length occurs so ducting losses are absolutely mininmized meaning charge density is maximized. Having a reservoir of cool liquid on hand takes advantage of available thermal mass or storage of the coolant itself, i.e., the vast majority of boost/power deamands are typically short duration, resulting in very little overall temp. rise of the coolant itself. As the coolant is continuously circulated, cooled and stored "at the ready" at close to ambient temps.The charge cooler is always afforded Maximum cooling advantage"

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Gary and tourquemonster are both correct,for everyday street use there is no question air to air is the way to go and is why most centrifical units utilize this system.the most important thing to remember is the faster and harder you run a water to air the less efficiant it becomes.the oposite holds true for air to air,which wins my vote.

 

[Gerald]

go air to air, once the liquid heats up (and we all know how hot a viper gets!!!), you'll have a interheater!

Gerald

 

[1TONY1]

"First, water is over 9 times more conductive than air, so, the overall heat transfer coefficient is dramatically improved"

Very interesting above. I wouldn't discount a water to air with the water cooling system like the Paxton unit. But then again....what does Paxton know about s/c ????? I don't think a Heffner or DLM high boost and huge intercooler theory applies to the low boost Paxton. It's amazing how good I have seen some Vortech water to air systems perform....very small cooler too.

 

[Torquemonster]

Tony - it is true - for low to modest boost and lower level applications on the street they work fine. Air to air will simply make more power over a longer period of time. The point is the advantage held by the water to air is very short term, after which air to air will maintain better intercooling.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Paxton Rep,

If I were to put on a air to air intercooler on this kit, (besides the fabercating of the pipes) would it work? Or are you saying if I did that, I would have to get more boost in the system?

 

[utahviper]

WHat is considered low to modest boost?

 

[FE 065]

Air to air seems best, agreed. I thought my SCUBA class mentioned water takes heat out 4x faster than air, not 9x...

 

[Paxton-Rep]

"what does Paxton know about s/c ????? "

I do not understand this question, are you questioning Paxton's ability? If so, there is a lot to learn. One of the down falls to an air to air is that they are big and bulky, consuming big area's of space. Now Paxton will use a air-air, or an air-water depending on the application. One thing to keep in mind with an air-air is that you have to run the proper tubing, the tubing takes volume's of air (boost) to fill, then you have the large core's of the intercooler, all this will equate to a loss of boost, meaning the blower or turbo, whatever the application is will need to speed up. Both application's have there advantages, and dis-advantages depending on your application, you can benefit from both!

 

[1TONY1]

"what does Paxton know about s/c ????? "

I do not understand this question, are you questioning Paxton's ability?

Hey rep, If you read my post again......it actually means Paxton does know their $hit......just said in a backwards way.

 

[DChan415]

I've been trying to find out for a while now if I can buy the Paxton S/C kit with out the intercooler and intake piping. So can I?

 

[SVS Turbo]

We use a front mounted radiator type intercooler in the fascia. That radiator intercooler sends cooled liquid (by means of a high quality pump) to the intercooler after the Supercharger.

For short runs, street driving, low boost, high boost it is always being cooled from the front mounted radiator intercooler. You could call it a first stage cooling being sent to a second stage cooling.

Once the water gets hot? it gets cooled again in the front. We have had the best success with air to water.

Maybe everyone forgot about the ability to mount a extra cooling radiator in the front?

SVS

 

[Russ M]

Water to Air works well, but it does so only in short bursts of speed. Once the liquid gets hot, even with the radiator in the front the air temps get too hot.

Air to air is the only truly streetable form of intercooling. Good air charge is 10-15 degrees above ambient.

But if it is for track use 1/4 mile or 1 mile bursts then Air to water is much better. Good air charge is 30-40F with lots of ice in the mix.