Windshield Wipers Sword-fight

Discussion in 'RT/10 and GTS Discussions' started by Vpr898, Jun 24, 2018.

What needs replacing?

  1. Driver's side motor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Passenger's side motor

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Wiper control module

    1 vote(s)
    50.0%
  4. Car's owner (please no)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    I have read through this forum, other online resources, and the vehicle's service manual...only to be completely unsure of how to proceed and which part(s) to replace. I have embedded a link below of a video of my particular issue as it unfolds. Any assistance would be appreciated, even if it makes me look stupid. Thank you all



    (1996 GTS Coupe)
     
  2. KyViper

    KyViper Viper Owner

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    Try video again with the windshield wetted down. To me looks like 22 year old wiper motors and blades running on a dry windshield. Which by the way may also scratch a tough to find and replace windshield.
    Ky
     
  3. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    Fair, and I shall. But those are brand new blades, and the very same happens in the wet
     
  4. AviP

    AviP Viper Owner

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    Did you remove the wiper arms or just the wiper blades? Because it's obvious that there is some adjustment needed. I have a huge writeup in the service manual on this but it's better to narrow it down if possible.

    Also, do the blades touch each other in the parked position? Here's some wiper arm basics in the parked position:
    - The driver wiper blade is over the passenger wiper blade.
    - The passenger wiper blade at the blade pivot point is 7/8" over the black cowl trim.
    - The driver wiper blade at the blade pivot point is 1-9/16' over the black cowl trim.
    - The passenger wiper blade should not touch the cowl trim while going to the park position.
    - The driver wiper blade should not touch the passenger wiper blade while going to the park position.

    Finally, torque at the wiper arm might be a factor too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  5. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    I followed that exactly, I have the same manual. Parked blades are properly spaced from the cowl and from each other. And the torque is to spec.

    Anything else you see?
     
  6. AviP

    AviP Viper Owner

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    Glad you have the manual. Have you done the 3 tests in the manual for the Wiper Motor, Switch and Wiring?

    Here's my train of thought.
    - The driver motor seems fine on outward stroke and stop.
    - The passenger motor seems to stutter on both the outward stroke and stop.
    - The controller is fine since it is trying to do the best based on its inputs.
    - Assuming the above to be true, it's either a bad power connection or a bad syn signal at the passenger motor.

    Check for connectivity and corrosion all over but specifically at 2 places:
    - terminal 5 (passenger motor) to terminal 19 (controller) for the syn signal
    - terminal 7 (passenger motor) to terminal 5 (controller) for the power signal

    Make sure you have a good battery. Unfortunately, that's all I can deduce at this point. Let us know how it goes.
     
    ViperJeff likes this.
  7. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    Thanks, Avi

    I have not had the chance to check connections yet, but I did run two back-to-back tests with the windshield wet (as requested). Those videos are below.


     
  8. AviP

    AviP Viper Owner

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    The passenger wiper seems to stutter in both videos while the driver wiper barely stutters in the first. I'm still calling out the passenger motor as it definitely stutters in all 3 videos.
     
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy Enthusiast Staff Member

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    You think its the motors that are bad or just need adjusting?
     
  10. ViperJohn

    ViperJohn VCA Member - Northeast

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    You may have a bad wiper control module or one of motors is going bad causing them to get out of sync. I know the fronts on Gen 2 are both minivan rear wiper motors from the same model era.
     
  11. androbud

    androbud Viper Owner

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    I had the same issue years ago. If I remember correctly, one side has a positon sensor and when the blades meet your sensor isn't working correctly. I know I was able to Frankenstein a setup back together much cheaper than buying a new unit but it's been so long ago I can't remember how. I think the motor is the same for both sides but the mounting bracket is different. This issue is a pain to deal with and you REALLY need a service manual so that you're going down the right path.
     
  12. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    My memory of issues posted on the forum was that if there appears to be a problem with one of the motors, then it is usually caused by a problem in the other one.
     
  13. Lalmeida617

    Lalmeida617 Enthusiast

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    I am not a viper owner yet however this seams to be a major issue with them. Of the 3 I looked at with under 30k on them 2 have had this issue. I have done a lot of research on this problem. So here goes.
    It is one of these issues.

    Most likely cause is the Passenger side motor. This motor has the brain in it.

    Then the drivers side motor.

    Then the timer which I think is in a false floor under the passenger footwell area.

    The timers usually don’t go bad.

    Tighten the nut holding the arm to the stud. Was it loose don’t go nuts a turn or so?

    Lastly it could be wiring related but these cars don’t see much bad weather but u never know.

    Some have been able to fix there bad motor. I think the magnet that senses the wipers position fall out. (But I am not 100% on this). There is a procedure in the repair manual which explains how to test for which motor is bad. I hope this helps.

    For now remove the passenger wiper arm from the post.
    At least u will be able to get buy with the drivers blade if u get stuck in the rain.

    Could u do me a favor and post a pic of how the wiper motors are mounted in the cowl area. I cannot find a pic of there location anywhere and are they easy to change or a project?

    This has prevented me from buying 2 Vipers a 94 and a sweet 96 Rt10 I am still searching!
    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  14. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    UPDATE:

    Over the weekend I disassembled the wiper system again and conducted the tests outlined in the service manual to evaluate the motors and the switch, all independently. I did not have and still do not have any suspicion that the wiring is at fault, and as that testing procedure involved leads I had not prepared, I skipped that test.

    The switch tested fine, no faults. I removed the control module and gave it a gross inspection; nothing caught my eye on the board. I also didn't really suspect the control module. I tested the motors individually, connected directly to a power source via test leads as described in the manual. The driver's side motor appeared and sounded robust and responsive, especially when compared to the operation of the passenger side motor. When tested, especially on the high speed terminal, the passenger side motor looked and sounded sluggish and responded poorly.

    Satisfied with my testing results thus far, I have ordered and await the delivery of a replacement OEM passenger side wiper motor. (MOPAR part number: 04643065)

    I don't have a photo handy, but to answer your question. The process of disassembling this area is easy. Expose wiper arm nut both sides, remove nut (13 mm I think) on both arms, remove arms, remove four philips screws securing cowl, remove cowl, remove motor covers, remove three 10 mm bolts each motor, remove motors. Not a difficult project.

    I will update this thread with my results.
     
  15. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    UPDATE:

    After service manual testing procedures (as outlined above), I concluded (apparently falsely) that the passenger side motor needed replacement. I purchased a new passenger side wiper motor and installed it.

    Sadly, I'm still getting interference between the wiper arms (I have adjusted the parking locations of the arms within and outside-of the guidelines in the service manual) and slow, stuttering operation of the passenger side wiper.

    I'm a bit at a loss; considering replacement of the control module.

     
  16. AviP

    AviP Viper Owner

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    That sucks! I'm at a loss as well but the only option left is the controller.
     
  17. AZTVR

    AZTVR Enthusiast

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    How do you know that the problem is not the driver's side motor? If you are now confident that the problem was not the passenger side motor, you could try swapping the new passenger side motor with the driver's side motor after swapping mounting hardware. Or you could just change out the controller, and if that doesn't work, then replace the driver's side motor.
     
  18. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    Good question, and I addressed that yesterday with another test. I did roughly what you suggested, using both the old and new passenger side motors in place of the driver's side motor. And regardless of the setup, the motor on the passenger side still stuttered at, apparently, the same spots as always. I don't have another controller, but I'm leaning towards replacing it if I can get my hands on one.

    Also found a small oil leak yesterday, from a quick glance I can only guess at the oil pressure sensor being the source. I've never had any such issues before, so now there's that.
     
  19. Lalmeida617

    Lalmeida617 Enthusiast

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    I don’t think you can use a passenger side motor in place of the drivers motor. They are different. Can u return the passenger side motor and get the drivers one?
     
  20. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    I don't intend to use a passenger side motor on the driver's side. I merely connected one there to gauge its behavior and that of the other passenger side motor without the factory driver's side motor in the circuit, in an effort to rule out fault lying with the factory driver's side motor. I believe I've now done that and have no intention of replacing the factory driver's side motor. The motor connected on the passenger side stutters no matter which one it is and no matter which motor is connected to the driver's side.

    And no, I can't return the motor. I fought a return policy and lost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  21. blownrunner

    blownrunner Enthusiast

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    need shorter wiper blades perhaps?
     
  22. Vpr898

    Vpr898 Viper Owner

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    Good thinking. But I'm using the correct size of wiper blades.
     

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