More Fiat talk about Dinosaur Engines

Art 138 · Jun 24, 2009

This appeared today in Bloombergmarkets.com.....

"Rinolfi doesn’t expect Fiat technology will be applied to Chrysler’s biggest engines, including 6-liter ones, which he said are destined to disappear “the way the dinosaurs did.”

Fiat Retrofits Chrysler Engine, Shelves â€˜Dinosaursâ€™ to Save Gas - Bloomberg.com

Kevan · Jun 24, 2009

Maybe I'm bad with regards to how multi-billion dollar business work, but why would you buy a company then immediately run out and kill it?

I'm convinced there's some type of Randolph-Mortimer-style bet going on between auto maker CEOs: "Who can make the worst possible decision and still keep their G5?"

At least that's how I as a consumer, car aficionado, and small business owner sees it.

InjectTheVenom · Jun 25, 2009

Kevan, you couldn't have said it any better. I'm quite lucky that my boss still has that "better do things right to the best of my abilities or not at all" attitude, which nowadays is apparently regarded as old fashioned because people just got fed up with constantly getting yelled at for no good reason?

Tom F&L GoR · Jun 25, 2009

I believe multi-billion dollar businesses refer to this as "milking the cash cow", but don't feed it. In this specific case, I would assume Viper continues until the next level of emissions certifications comes up.

Chuck 98 RT/10 · Jun 25, 2009

Tom said:
In this specific case, I would assume Viper continues until the next level of emissions certifications comes up.

For reasons like that as well as all the nanny crap I see the kit car market on the verge serious growth. Especially if the restrictions on the number of turnkey cars a kit car manufacturer is lifted a bit.

Chuck 98 RT/10 · Jun 25, 2009

Art 138 said:
"Rinolfi doesn’t expect Fiat technology will be applied to Chrysler’s biggest engines, including 6-liter ones, which he said are destined to disappear “the way the dinosaurs did.”

The same thing was said in the 70s. 13 years after Pontiac rolled out the last 400 Dodge showed up with 488cid. GM bumped up to 427. Ferrari and Lambo both increased their CID.

They still haven't found a replacement for displacement.

Chuck 98 RT/10 · Jun 25, 2009

Kevan said:
I'm convinced there's some type of Randolph-Mortimer-style bet going on between auto maker CEOs: "Who can make the worst possible decision and still keep their G5?"

LOL Amazing how many horrible decisions are made at executive levels. I wish I had friends with the power to put me in those positions, cause I don't see how else they got there.

Kevan · Jun 25, 2009

The more I think about it, the more a competency/sanity/reality test for incoming CEOs seems to be in order.

"Do you know who Chuck Berry is?"
"Yes. Nice guy with blonde hair, about 35. We were on the board of directors together at Bank of EcksWhyZee."
"You fail. NEXT!"

"How much is a loaf of regular wheat bread?"
"Well, that depends. See when my staff does my grocery shoppin....."
"Stop. We're done here. NEXT!"

"Which is heavier: a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks?"
I think we'd all be surprised at how many times the interviewer has to say "NEXT!" with that one.

ViperTony · Jun 25, 2009

Being Italian, 110%, I can say this based on my lifetime of experience dealing with Italians...every time someone at Fiat opens their mouth you can bet that they will say something to piss us off. A bunch of passionate folk no doubt...just watch the arm movement when they speak. If they're flailing their arms when they make these statements then they really mean it. If they're not flailing their arms then they're pushing our buttons and 'challenging' us to prove the V6 is not going the way of the dinosaur. i.e. make it more efficient. I expect a lot of arguing from FIAT. Anyone ever see Italian Parliament lose it during a session?

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xd/...er&d=5F50726CDD91A62F9E601DAAC7503028&k=2&v=1

Imagine if we could take that passion and channel it in a positive manner toward the Viper?

InjectTheVenom · Jun 25, 2009

ViperTony said:
Being Italian, 110%, I can say this based on my lifetime of experience dealing with Italians...every time someone at Fiat opens their mouth you can bet that they will say something to piss us off. A bunch of passionate folk no doubt...just watch the arm movement when they speak. If they're flailing their arms when they make these statements then they really mean it. If they're not flailing their arms then they're pushing our buttons and 'challenging' us to prove the V6 is not going the way of the dinosaur. i.e. make it more efficient. I expect a lot of arguing from FIAT. Anyone ever see Italian Parliament lose it during a session?
http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xd/...er&d=5F50726CDD91A62F9E601DAAC7503028&k=2&v=1

Imagine if we could take that passion and channel it in a positive manner toward the Viper?

Simple answer to the last bit of your post: have them know that their nextdoor neighbour once helped with at least part of development on the Viper, and they should be all over the car.
All that needs to happen is for Ferrari to recognise how important Viper is in their ongoing competition with Lambo (if I were a marketer I would instantly recognise the direct competition for the Gallardo that also has a V10) and we should be good for at least a while, if there are any car guys in Ferrari management that is.

Warfang · Jun 25, 2009

Chrysler was purchased for it's distribution channel in the US so Fiat can re-enter the US market. Simple as that. Don't think they care about the cars we want. Their loss.

InjectTheVenom · Jun 25, 2009

That would mean that there really are only beancounters in car manufacturer management these days

Ulysses · Jun 25, 2009

Fiat did not buy Chrysler. Fiat did not purchase Chrysler. It was a cashless exchange. Fiat took a 35% stake in Chrysler in exchange for Fiat's fuel-efficiency technology.

Mopar Boy · Jun 25, 2009

Warfang said:
Chrysler was purchased for it's distribution channel in the US so Fiat can re-enter the US market. Simple as that. Don't think they care about the cars we want. Their loss.

Bingo. That is all it is about. Fiat wanted to enter the US market again for many years. They just found a way to do it and if any Chrysler Corp vehicles happen to make them money in the process, then that is a bonus.

Part that bugs me is you cannot not make type of choices unless you have studied the target market. Fiat does not know if a Hemi is needed, wanted, or otherwise by the American consumer. And at the end of the day, it does not matter if the consumer NEEDS a V8 car, it is a matter of thats what they WANT to buy!! Does anyone NEED a Ferrari?? No! They WANT one. I would think Fiat would understand that. It is called capitalism. If they want it, build it or loose the customer.

Sorry. Got a little wound up.

Chuck 98 RT/10 · Jun 25, 2009

Mopar Boy said:
And at the end of the day, it does not matter if the consumer NEEDS a V8 car, it is a matter of thats what they WANT to buy!! Does anyone NEED a Ferrari?? No! They WANT one. I would think Fiat would understand that. It is called capitalism. If they want it, build it or loose the customer.

I hear you. But our government is taking away the cars we want and forcing us to get the cars they want. They are a bigger enemy to auto enthusiasts then Fiat is to Dodge.

Mopar Boy · Jun 25, 2009

Well I guess now that they own a manufacturer it should be really easy to enforce what product is made!

Kevan · Jun 25, 2009

Mopar Boy said:
Well I guess now that they own a manufacturer it should be really easy to enforce what product is made!

...and if they make decisions like what they're saying in public, drive the company right into the ground (again).
Pun FULLY intended.

InjectTheVenom · Jun 26, 2009

*nebbermind....

Tom F&L GoR · Jun 26, 2009

Ummm... what country/company do Ferrari, Lambo, R8, Porsche, M3, etc come from? To make a "good" argument we should understand what we want- is it an 8L V10? Low(er) tech? Low volume?

Just throwing it out there.

Vipuronr · Jun 26, 2009

From a pure business perspective, having spent my whole career in Fortune 100 corporations, Fiat took the 35% stake in Chrysler to get a foothold in the U.S. market (as said above).

They are looking to Chrysler to be the platform for them to launch their smaller "European style" cars...small size, good on gas. I do not think they had or have any interest in a limited production, high end sports car.

That said, I do not think they are referring to the Viper when they are referring to larger displacement engines. The Viper is a niche market car and I don't think they would garner much benefit from killing it. I think they are referring to the Hemi engine and some of Chrysler's larger non-Hemi motors....all poor gas mileage engines.

Just my opinion.

InjectTheVenom · Jun 26, 2009

*please delete this, I'm a careless idiot.

InjectTheVenom · Jun 26, 2009

*Same as the above

Vipuronr · Jun 26, 2009

Yes, all valid points.

True, the Ferrari is certainly not going to win any mpg competitions, but then Ferrari is an icon in the auto industry and history. People who buy Ferrari's are kind of in a class by themselves....mpg is not and never has been a discussion point when discussing this car.

However, and this is a big however, Ferrari is even working on high mpg alternatives....Hybrid Ferrari...yes, rumors have it there will be an F450 model:

We know that Ferrari is working on turbochargers and all-wheel-drive hybrids, and the hybrid portion of that equation could show up as soon as this year's Los Angeles Auto Show. If so, Autocar supposes the car in question will be the new Ferrari F450. As Jaguar has reportedly planned with the XE, Ferrari could show off a hybrid F450 first in order to make an even bigger splash.

With that, have you ever heard of Chrysler even working on a hybrid Hemi prior to their "demise." No, not publically at least...and, only after the bankruptcy did we hear or see their high mpg electric "mini Viper"....was that out of despiration?

Can you envision a hybrid Viper? Hard to imagine that the Viper fits into this category....but, one would think for the survival of the marque, possibly a mini-viper would be a welcome addition to the Viper line....power coupled with good mpg and low emission.

Just conceptualizing. :eater:

Peter

Kevan · Jun 26, 2009

Vipuronr said:
I think they are referring to the Hemi engine and some of Chrysler's larger non-Hemi motors....all poor gas mileage engines

Except that the 5.7L HEMI with MDS gets better MPG than it's Ford and Chevy counterparts. I think it's tied (or very close) to Nissan and Toyota's pseudo-V8's.

Aside from minivans, the name "HEMI" is the only thing keeping Chrysler alive at this point.
To end it would be the end of the company (and the end of their 35% investment).
It's that simple.

Tough to **** your espresso-rides when you don't have any dealerships, or a brand name for that matter.

BTW- the "mini Viper" was announced/shown off well before any bankruptcy grumblings.

More Fiat talk about Dinosaur Engines

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

Similar threads

Forum statistics

Share this page