708 cam vs ABS brakes

[hemihead]

I'm looking for a Gen II RT 10, I took your advise up'd my budget and now I've got a world of cars to choose from. At this point I 'm considereing a '99 (708 cam and big wheels) or an '01 / '02 (ABS). 99.9% of the time I just plan on crusing however I do want to try Viper Days and or go to the drag strip and have a little fun with it. I might get the bug and do more of it than I think. But I'm spending more that originally planned so I don't want to beat it up too hard.

My question is do you feel less torque or less of that hard pull in the cars without the 708 cam or is there little diffrence in acceleration. I realize they are both beasts and both cars will put a smile on my face it's just that I'm coming out a a string of 60's Mopar muscle cars usually will a slightly lumpy cam and I'd like to hear what you guys think.

 

[FE 065]

In spite of the fact that some people actually go to the trouble of installing a 708 cam in their '01/'02s, there's no convincing evidence that the '01/'02s are any slower at the drag strip than the 708 cammed Gen2s.

In fact I'm just about ready to hit the strip with my lightly modded '01 ACR. I think the results are going to prove very interesting..

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Just picked these up today!

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

The main difference b/t the 92-99 and 01-02 models are the forged internals of 92-99 vs. hyperneumatic (sp?) internals aka "creampuff" engine of the 01-02 (but they come with ABS). So, whats the odds you'll go with a supercharger, TT's, etc in the future? 00' Vipers do not have ABS, but have the creampuff engine. ABS may save your life, but if you plan on adding FI at some point, add the charge of upgrading your internals, or you risk possibly blowing the engine in a creampuff if you go with much more than 5lbs of boost

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

hypereutectic

The faster you go, the better you slow. ABS will save you for free, you can always pay to add HP later.

 

[hemihead]

That's well said Tom.

 

[Burntrubber]

If you are going to go Forced induction down the raod get the 99. Personally i chose the color combo I wanted! Blue and White!!!!!
If it had ABS then great, but the 96-99 engines can handle more hp...so it depends on your end goal.

 

[PDCjonny]

Tom, you manage to get along pretty well without ABS.
Believe it or not, it is possible to actually drive a car without ABS and live to tell about it despite what some here say. I've had my 98 four years, and pretty sure I'm still alive.

 

[OKViper]

Why not have the best of both worlds?

2002 Bumblebee with a Roe 6# - makes around 650/700 and has ABS...

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[2001-V10 Power Nut]

If you do Viper Days or some road coursing, you will really appreciate the ABS on the 01+ cars. The guys with the non ABS seem to slide around and lock up alot more, just my opinion. As you said either will put a large smile on your face, and either would be way more car than most people can handle.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

OK, I'll plug the 40mm brakes and say they will make a plowhorse into a quarterhorse; go from 0.8 G's to 1.0+ G's braking, legal for Viper Days. Anyone interested in the real-world data please PM me.

The reason for my comment is that I've driven a few newer cars with ABS (the Gen 3 Vipers during the VCA-PVO AX and my own '06 Charger) and I have to admit that if you can train yourself to use it fully, ABS is a huge asset. One "trick" with ABS is to keep pushing on the pedal harder, even when it starts to chatter. When you first feel it chatter, it may only be one wheel doing the ABS dance; you still have three more wheels that aren't being braked to their maximum. Hey, the PVO guys were two-footing it around the course (boy did the pads smell) so they were definitely using each tire to the maximum.

The previous comment is why (in my pipe dreams) I like ABS. Yes, the 40mm rears balance the brakes to stop in a straight line very well, but you'll never have four feet and four brake pedals to stop equally as well in a turn or bumps or wet (you get the idea.)

 

[RTTTTed]

The 97-99 have forged pistons (race quality) and the 00 and ups have hypertectic, which was originally billed as forged. They're not the same quality as race forged, but they're far superior to 'cast pistons'.

You didn't say if you do your own work yourself or not. The 708 cam is considered an upgrade to the newer profile camshaft. My '01 has Ross racing pistons (9-1) and a 708cam with 1.7 rockers and larger TBs. My last '60s muscle car was actually a 73 Prostreet Duster with a 500hp 440 and 250hp Nitrous. It may be as fast as my Viper, but only using Nitrous to 140mph, while not using the Viper's Nitrous. The Duster is mindboggling around corners and doesn't compare to the Duster at all. Since my Viper I've only taken the Duster out of the garage to a local Rodeo Parade. Decided to sell the Duster because the Viper has ruined me to all musclecars and now I've become a 'sportscar nut'. I still really like my Duster, but not enough to drive it any longer. I spent most of my life modifying 60s musclecars but now considered myself "upgraded" to a Viper. I think the stock Vipers (except 08s) don't have enough power, their exhaust ***** and any really good 60s musclecar can kick stock Viper ass at the dragstrip. Modified Vipers are KING though. If you do your own work you can add forged pistons, supercharger, cam yourself. It's a lot of work to do, but that's why Viper mods cost so much. Plus the reputable shops guarantee their work in case of a mishap. Otherwise, you should just buy a Viper with all the mods you want already done. I purchased my highly modified Viper with $50K upgrades for about an extra $5K above what I felt the stocker would have been worth. I've added another $7,000 to get it to what I consider the "perfect streetcar". The wheels that came on my Viper are worth more than that.

I think upgrading to a Viper is a good move.

I get the impression that most people think that ABS is faster/shorter stopping than non-ABS? The tests I read showed non ABS always stopped about 8' shorter than ABS and if things have changed nowadays I'd like to see some charts. Other than rainy or icy roads I think it takes ABS an extra 8' to stop from 60mph. ABS is great for control issues in that the wheels don't skid and therefor steering is available and the car stops in a straight line instead of sideways. I personally have no preference and have owned both. Either the ABS or non-ABS I think 14" lighweight brake kit with 13" cross-drilled/slotted rear brakes is as good as it gets. My 09 GTS also had a rear caliper 40mm caliper piston upgrade which I recommend. The 01 ABS comes factory with the larger rear caliper pistons and doesn't need that upgrade.

You've picked an excellent time to purchase a Viper and I'd like to congratulate you in advance of your purchasing a Viper.

This is just MY opinion and you can take it for what it's worth.

Ted

 

[Red Snake]

.....or you can do what I did. I bought a 97 with forged internals, Roe S/C making about 725 at the flywheel and it has SRT brakes and drilled/slotted rotors installed.

 

[TexasPettey]

The upgrade on the cam shaft is far and away easier and cheaper than upgrading to ABS. My guess is that a cam shaft upgrade, to 708 or better, would be less than $500 on a Gen2. Unless you are going to add some serious forced induction, I'd suggest the newer/ABS. The forged pistons won't do you any good until you add sizable boost. For street and mild track events, ABS is a nice safety item. It really helps you learn the cars limits when braking without a lot of risk.

If you are going to get serious about track events, look for a '97/'98/'99 that has had a number of upgrades to it. You won't have ABS, but you will have a better track car for the $.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

ABS is overrated. After you lay a hundred or so flatspots you'll feel the same way.

 

[plumcrazy]

brakes are over rated. but seriously it really depends on your HONEST plans in the future for mods.

if any slight hint of S/C, TT or nitrous....go for the 99.

 

[RTTTTed]

And ... the >99 Vipers are more collectable than the 00-02s.

Ted

 

[hemihead]

Currently I don't plan on doing any forced induction mods, but you never know once the bug bites me.

As far as desireabilityI was surprised to see in the Maurice's book The Viper Buyer's Guide that a '99 was a three star versus the '01 and '02 four stars. I know i look at a '99 as a very desirable year.

 

[RTTTTed]

Being a 'book' means that it probably considers 'ease of modifications' as a bad thing. Some of the earlier Gen 2s had welding and recal issues as well. Before you purchase a Viper, spend the money and get it inspected. Bigger, lighweight brakes are worth more money to you ... if they're done properly. You can check yearly recalls at Dodges webpage. Enter the serial # and make sure that all required recalls have been done to the car before purchase. My 2001 had NO recalls, lot of mods and no issues. My car is also a very limited production Deep Sapphire Blue (pearle blue).

Ted

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

I bought an 02 because i wanted a yellow RT/10..
But now i am doing 708 cam,heads and a roe.....

Cam and heads are fairly easy to fit but adding ABS is not......

 

[Matthew Howell 97 GTS]

After you flat spot a pair of front tires from just driving around town and having to do a panic stop, you will know the value of ABS. The 708 cam is over-rated and the neutral gear rattle is sometimes annoying. I believe there might even be other improvements such as the window and window seals that had been improved in the 01-02.

I added ABS to my 97 and it is the best mod I have made. I'll never be without it again.

 

[Bugeater]

I added ABS to my 97 and it is the best mod I have made. I'll never be without it again.

Who did the upgrade, yourself? I see you are in KC so maybe Woodhouse? Cost?

 

[FATHERFORD]

Who did the upgrade, yourself? I see you are in KC so maybe Woodhouse? Cost?

Ditto.. Would like to know myself

 

[FE 065]

After you flat spot a pair of front tires from just driving around town and having to do a panic stop, you will know the value of ABS. The 708 cam is over-rated and the neutral gear rattle is sometimes annoying. I believe there might even be other improvements such as the window and window seals that had been improved in the 01-02.

I added ABS to my 97 and it is the best mod I have made. I'll never be without it again.

Perfectly put.

 

[SquadX]

ABS does help with flatspots and if you plan on adding boost in upwards of 800hp, just rebuild the engine with a forge bottom. I believe the 96-99 can handle 800rwhp. I personally choose an 01 with abs, which has saved my front end a couple times. If you plan on making more the 800rwhp then you would need to build the engine up regardless. I would rather have a car which is built to handle more hp then I am making as compared to having a car making hp that is on the blink of the engines max handling capabilities.

 

[RTTTTed]

800rwhp is risky unless you spend $20,000+ and get billet maincaps, H beam rods and racing pistons. That's a of money to spend on a $40,000 car, not to mention the $10,-20,000 for the exhaust, Forced Induction kit, Nitrous, better brakes, wheels, suspesion upgrades, etc. Just buy a 1200rwhp with all accessories for $80,000 and save a lot of money ... if that's what you're looking for.

Another option would be to just buy a few Vipers, Ford GTs, etc.

Ted

 

[hemihead]

HA! You guys are killing me, I've up'd my budget twice, now I'm going to hold off on the three piece top and stripes that I wanted to add.

You guys are talking about 12 hp, and $20 k rebuilds! I'm pretty sutre you and me are in two diffirent leagues here.

 

[plumcrazy]

<< ------ 48K hard/fast miles with no flat spots

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<< ------ 48K hard/fast miles with no flat spots

<<------ 112,000 hard/fast miles with no ABS and no flat spots.

my tracker however...

 

[mad0953]

I would rather listen to the sound of my V10 with the lumpy 708 cam than know I had ABS in case I had to stop fast. I don't track mine though.

 

[Matthew Howell 97 GTS]

Valaya Racing I believe in California has been adding ABS. Last time I checked it was around $10,000. I am guessing that is for all new parts. I did my own with used parts off an 01-02 system.