An SVS Story - pix

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

It never happened here because everytime he tried to give an update you guys deleted it. How is it that macedo scared you so bad??? Did you ever monitor any of the ending that happened and was spelled out on the viperalley website??? Did you hear of how macedo's wife was defaming Underground Racing (Kevin the owner) and got caught red handed??? Did you read about everything that was documented by Underground that was wrong with his car??? Did you see any of the pictures showing the duct tape holding his fuel system together?? Probably no to all of my questions because you guys tucked your head and ran rather than stand behind one of your members. You want both sides ask macedo to give his side and answer the questions about the spark plugs not being long enough. Btw, you didn't ask Kenny to "stand down" you told him he would be banned if he brought it up. You wanted two sides or a "resolution" but won't let him post the results doesn't make sense to me. Regardless, this thread is not about Kenny or macedo, it just looks like a double standard to me.

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It DID happen here, over and over and over. Do a search. And nothing got deleted except perhaps the last two posts he made after he was asked to stop, and he was only threatened with banning because he did not stop when asked. And he was asked to stop PRIOR to the discovery of the items you mention, not after. And all this was a web site committee decision, not one moderator alone. And we also had MANY, many complaints regarding the "spamming" of the board: He repeatedly made insulting posts and replies in unrelated topics just to draw attention to his situation. The current SVS situation consists of almost exclusively documented facts backed up by disinterested (non-competing) third parties. The Macedo situation was presented more as a personal vendetta and documented well after the fact by a direct competitor of Macedo. Spamming the boards with spiteful, personal posts was yet another direct rule violation.

These are two quite different cases. The MAJOR difference is that Macedo formally disputed the posts, that's his right under the rule below. I might add that in this case the facts seem much more indisputable. And as I'm sure we all recall (And yes we did read everything here and I read everything on the Alley also) it was very hard right up to the end to determine what had gone wrong with Kennys car. There were no smoking guns till the end. And are they smoking guns if they are presented by another tuner? I dunno. That will be up to the court if they go there as they have stated. But at the time we asked Kenny to stop it seemed pretty clear he could not "SUBSTANTIATE" what had happened at the time we had the conversation with him. And as to being scared it would have been much easier to just ignore it then to actually follow the rules as they are laid out.
And as to your comment in your other post that the mods. did not respond to PM's that simply is not true at all.

"Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out."

 

[2MANYTOYS]

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It DID happen here, over and over and over. Do a search. And nothing got deleted except perhaps the last two posts he made after he was asked to stop, and he was only threatened with banning because he did not stop when asked. And he was asked to stop PRIOR to the discovery of the items you mention, not after. And all this was a web site committee decision, not one moderator alone. And we also had MANY, many complaints regarding the "spamming" of the board: He repeatedly made insulting posts and replies in unrelated topics just to draw attention to his situation. The current SVS situation consists of almost exclusively documented facts backed up by disinterested (non-competing) third parties. The Macedo situation was presented more as a personal vendetta and documented well after the fact by a direct competitor of Macedo. Spamming the boards with spiteful, personal posts was yet another direct rule violation.
These are two quite different cases. The MAJOR difference is that Macedo formally disputed the posts, that's his right under the rule below. I might add that in this case the facts seem much more indisputable. And as I'm sure we all recall (And yes we did read everything here and I read everything on the Alley also) it was very hard right up to the end to determine what had gone wrong with Kennys car. There were no smoking guns till the end. And are they smoking guns if they are presented by another tuner? I dunno. That will be up to the court if they go there as they have stated. But at the time we asked Kenny to stop it seemed pretty clear he could not "SUBSTANTIATE" what had happened at the time we had the conversation with him. And as to being scared it would have been much easier to just ignore it then to actually follow the rules as they are laid out.
And as to your comment in your other post that the mods. did not respond to PM's that simply is not true at all.

"Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out."

That's funny April 7th, 2007 I sent KCOBEAN a "MOD" a pm and got no response. Bottom line it doesn't matter what you and I think nothing will change what happened. It wasn't my car but personally I think you guys handled it wrong. You say you had MANY member complaints about the posts, but more than likely they were from Macedo's buddies here on the board trying to silence a ********** customer. It doesn't matter though you guys are going to do whatever you want anyway. I just hate seeing members here, regardless of who they are get taken by unethical tuners.

 

[big-n-italian]

svs.... you gonna respond?

i have a hunch there is a storm brewing.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

That's funny April 7th, 2007 I sent KCOBEAN a "MOD" a pm and got no response. Bottom line it doesn't matter what you and I think nothing will change what happened. It wasn't my car but personally I think you guys handled it wrong. You say you had MANY member complaints about the posts, but more than likely they were from Macedo's buddies here on the board trying to silence a ********** customer. It doesn't matter though you guys are going to do whatever you want anyway. I just hate seeing members here, regardless of who they are get taken by unethical tuners.

We hate that as much as you do, and we are just as vulnerable, we own Vipers also. As to handling it wrong in your opinion...We handled it the only way we could. BY THE RULES. With a unanimous vote by 5 guys. As to the number of complaints I can assure you Macedo has never had that many customers or buddies in his whole career. The volume of complaints was astonishing. And give us a little credit for knowing who people are around here, we would not have been swayed by the obvious shills.
And in case you did not know we DO act against tuners when we can compile enough evidence. There is a MAJOR tuner banned here for years, although he continues to post and advertise on the Alley.
And we have a few more we have been chatting about due to the level of complaints we see. We're not sitting on our hands around here.

 

[CitySnake]

That's funny April 7th, 2007 I sent KCOBEAN a "MOD" a pm and got no response. Bottom line it doesn't matter what you and I think nothing will change what happened. It wasn't my car but personally I think you guys handled it wrong. You say you had MANY member complaints about the posts, but more than likely they were from Macedo's buddies here on the board trying to silence a ********** customer. It doesn't matter though you guys are going to do whatever you want anyway. I just hate seeing members here, regardless of who they are get taken by unethical tuners.

What I think you are taking for granted is the great difficulty in finding and maintaining the precise "middle of the road". It's difficult now; several months of silence after the forum firestorm. At the immediate time these kind of issues are stirring, it is virtually impossible to find the precise compromise line to walk as moderators seeking reason and balance. I can't and would not attempt to speak for Lee (or any other mods), but as a moderator on both the Alley and here, what CAN irk me is your suggestion (whether it be outright or implied) that while mistakes MAY have been made, that those mistakes may have been by design. NO, we don't "do whatever we want anyway"! Moderator decisions are well considered among several seriously concerned and well intentioned Viper owners and VCA members. The ONLY intent is to be fair to all parties involved.

Everyone has the complete right to disagree with those decisions made. However, to suggest there's ANYTHING other than good, reasonable and fair intent involved in those decisions is, at best, intensely inappropriate.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

What I think you are taking for granted is the great difficulty in finding and maintaining the precise "middle of the road". It's difficult now; several months of silence after the forum firestorm. At the immediate time these kind of issues are stirring, it is virtually impossible to find the precise compromise line to walk as moderators seeking reason and balance. I can't and would not attempt to speak for Lee (or any other mods), but as a moderator on both the Alley and here, what CAN irk me is your suggestion (whether it be outright or implied) that while mistakes MAY have been made, that those mistakes may have been by design. NO, we don't "do whatever we want anyway"! Moderator decisions are well considered among several seriously concerned and well intentioned Viper owners and VCA members. The ONLY intent is to be fair to all parties involved.

Everyone has the complete right to disagree with those decisions made. However, to suggest there's ANYTHING other than good, reasonable and fair intent involved in those decisions is, at best, intensely inappropriate.

Where did I suggest that the mistakes made were by design?????????? Your reading in to this to much. And yes I DO believe the MODS handled that situation wrong. That's my opinion you have yours, and yes you guys do "do whatever you want" as you said you get together vote and do what you want. So what's the big deal???? And truthfully, CITY I'm not concerned with IRKING you! I am however, concerned about a fellow viper owner who got took for more than $28,000 and then paid again to get his car fixed. After you saw how everything played out on the Alley, you should have revoted here and allowed Kenny to post the pictures and document the problems that Underground found and fixed on the car. Are you willing to say that they aren't a viable independent source capable of handling such a feat? I know that one of you mods don't like Underground, so is that why when some of the problems they were finding were looked at as noncredible. Had it been Heffner or DLM would it have made a difference? Sure makes me and others wonder. Come to think about it, it irks me that YOU think I was implying something. Those here that know me, know I tell it straight whether good or bad. Again, have your meeting, vote and handle this however you want. I'm tired of arguing about it. I hope Drumrboy gets his problem with svs resolved.

 

[RTTTTed]

Knowing what we know about Macedo and his "magic dyno" that seems to always run on the high side and never be able to be duplicated, I posit to you the same inquiry that I did on the Alley:

Have you ever personally dyno'd your car? Or are you just going on the numbers that the previous owner/tuner told you?

I only ask because if you're making over 700 rwhp on a stock head/cam car with a Roe then you officially have one of the strongest Roe blower cars on the entire planet.

And who exactly went 10.4 @ 139 on street tires? If it was you, do you have the time slip? Or was this something that you were told by the previous owner/tuner? Because a 10.4 on street tires would put that car right on par with some of the 1000+ rwhp twin turbo cars.

I was mildly inclined to call BS on your dyno numbers and quarter mile times before, but now that I know it was a Macedo car, I am even more inclined to do so.

If I said 10.4 I apologize, it was 10.5.

Yes it's a Sapphire car. If you raced Tony or Dave at the V10 Nats they would have been running 11.5 with drag radials (also won at that ET), of course if you go faster than 11.5 without a roll bar you lose. The car has No roll bar and that makes it difficult to get "fastest times" in this car, street tires or slicks. This isn't the first 'fast car' I've owned and having BUILT many many Prostreet cars and even a full chassis car myself I can tell BS from the truth.

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This Street car went 9's without Nitrous. Ugly as sin, but fast. I did all the engine and chassis work.

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This car went 10.4 in Street trim (insurance, treaded tires, alt, etc.) without Nitrous as well. I also did all the engine and chassis work on this car. Now it's going 6's at Mission Raceway. I didn't build the Brodex Blown motor that now sits in the engine compartment however.

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The Pro Streeter I now have in my garage. 10's with Nitrous. I also did all the work on it.

I ran a race/customizing shop for 10 years so I guess my opinion is Professional. My Viper is only the second car I've ever owned that had work done by anyone but me. His work is Top Quality. I've already collected 2 trophies (Viper rally & HQ car show) which is pretty good for only entering two events during the 3 months I drove the car. I left the Macedo decals on the car because the man is GOOD. Larry rebuilt the engine after it failed at 10,000mi. Now it has 29,000mi. on it and still perfect.

Ted

 

[SVS Turbo]

If I said 10.4 I apologize, it was 10.5.

Yes it's a Sapphire car. If you raced Tony or Dave at the V10 Nats they would have been running 11.5 with drag radials (also won at that ET), of course if you go faster than 11.5 without a roll bar you lose. The car has No roll bar and that makes it difficult to get "fastest times" in this car, street tires or slicks. This isn't the first 'fast car' I've owned and having BUILT many many Prostreet cars and even a full chassis car myself I can tell BS from the truth.

You must be registered for see images

This Street car went 9's without Nitrous. Ugly as sin, but fast. I did all the engine and chassis work.

You must be registered for see images

This car went 10.4 in Street trim (insurance, treaded tires, alt, etc.) without Nitrous as well. I also did all the engine and chassis work on this car. Now it's going 6's at Mission Raceway. I didn't build the Brodex Blown motor that now sits in the engine compartment however.

You must be registered for see images

The Pro Streeter I now have in my garage. 10's with Nitrous. I also did all the work on it.

I ran a race/customizing shop for 10 years so I guess my opinion is Professional. My Viper is only the second car I've ever owned that had work done by anyone but me. His work is Top Quality. I've already collected 2 trophies (Viper rally & HQ car show) which is pretty good for only entering two events during the 3 months I drove the car. I left the Macedo decals on the car because the man is GOOD. Larry rebuilt the engine after it failed at 10,000mi. Now it has 29,000mi. on it and still perfect.

Ted

Cool pics

May I ask what caused the failure of the engine at 10,000 miles?

 

[Marc Lublin]

Not to stir the *** here, but didn't SVS say they were going to respond yesterday?
What's the hold up?

 

[SnakeBitten]

Cool pics

May I ask what caused the failure of the engine at 10,000 miles?

Are you for real??Shouldnt this be the least of your worries???

 

[v10kingsnake]

SVS lost his shovel, when he finds it he will keep diggin his grave. Patient guys. The guys not bright enough to leave bad enough alone.

 

[SVS Turbo]

Not to stir the *** here, but didn't SVS say they were going to respond yesterday?
What's the hold up?

No, I said very soon.

Don't worry, this thread isn't going to go away

I want to be thorough

 

[GTSjbud]

I suspect that they, SVS, are still waiting for advice from their lawyer(s) before posting any comment(s). So in the mean time Jr. will chime in and try to change the subject.

 

[SVS Turbo]

Are you for real??Shouldnt this be the least of your worries???

Yes I'm for real.

I'm not worrying. I asked a simple question

 

[SVS Turbo]

I suspect that they, SVS, are still waiting for advice from their lawyer(s) before posting any comment(s). So in the mean time Jr. will chime in and try to change the subject.

You suspect alot don't you?

Man you're sure full of ridicule

Why do you think I'm spending my time on here at 8:30 pm Friday night?

Oh yeah, and your statement is completely innacurate

 

[PDCjonny]

The court finds the defendant guilty as charged.

 

[steponz]

Unhappy Macedo customer here....

My car will never go there ever again....

Now I am working on story number 2....

Joe

 

[GTSnake]

Hey guys, be very careful about what you say about SVS. You may find yourself on the receiving end of a lawsuit for slander or something...

 

[RTTTTed]

The engine failed because of a faulty rocker arm (oil hole not drilled). Not sure who was responsible, but I understand it was fixed as warranty.

Ted

 

[CROM]

I'm not going to say anything negative about SVS's reputation. I have no direct experience with SVS. I have no direct experience with Macedo either. I know there are a lot of stupid people with money to blow on this forum and little knowledge about the cars they own. BUT...... I personally will not purchase something from a shop/builder that comes on to a public forum and acts this way towards a customer regardless of their innocence. If I as a customer feel like I was crapped on, then I deserve a valid excuse/explanation. Give a valid explanation with PROOF, otherwise shut up and do your AMERICAN duty and GET IT RIGHT. It should NEVER get to this level, EVER. If you as a builder/shop owner come on to a public forum and play these immature games you probably deserve what is coming to you. The Viper community is not a large one and God help you if you piss off a majority of the individuals from this board and the Alley.

Does Chuck Tator need to give all these business owners a little lesson on Customer Service????

 

[big-n-italian]

If I as a customer feel like I was crapped on, then I deserve a valid excuse/explanation. Give a valid explanation with PROOF, otherwise shut up and do your AMERICAN duty and GET IT RIGHT. It should NEVER get to this level, EVER.

stop making sense RIGHT NOW mister! what the heck is wrong with you?

 

[Larry Macedo]

deleted******

 

[CROM]

stop making sense RIGHT NOW mister! what the heck is wrong with you?

Places crack pipe on desk....goes to bed....

 

[kcobean]

That's funny April 7th, 2007 I sent KCOBEAN a "MOD" a pm and got no response. Bottom line it doesn't matter what you and I think nothing will change what happened. It wasn't my car but personally I think you guys handled it wrong. You say you had MANY member complaints about the posts, but more than likely they were from Macedo's buddies here on the board trying to silence a ********** customer. It doesn't matter though you guys are going to do whatever you want anyway. I just hate seeing members here, regardless of who they are get taken by unethical tuners.

Brian,
I won't go as far as to repost the PM you sent me, but I will just say that little in it implied that you expected a response. It was, as is the majority of your message thus far in this thread, "You guys ****, Kenny got screwed and you should let him tell his story." That's ok, you're entitled to your opinion and obviously nobody here is going to change it.

But let's look at the facts: In the Kenny vs. Macedo thread, Macedo disputed the accuracy of the information presented. BY POLICY (and I capitalize that because it's important to note that we're not making up the rules as we go, we're enforcing the policies as they exist), when a dispute is raised, the thread gets removed at the very least until a solution is reached either between the tuner and the customer, or between those two parties and a judge. In most cases, that solution involves some agreement about disclosure to the rest of the community. Far as I know, that still hasn't happened in Kenny's case. Do you know otherwise?

The posts of Kenny's that were deleted were few and as a result of Kenny hijacking other peoples threads for the purpose of perpetuating the drama of his issue into other people's Viper experience despite some very polite requests from us not to do so. Again, a clear action of enforcing the site's policies on our part, not heavy handed "on the fly" administration.

In THIS thread, facts have been presented that have NOT been refuted by SVS, in fact SVS has asked that the thread not be deleted so that both sides may be told.

I fail to see how you can think that this forum has any part of anyone "getting taken by an unethical tuner." We have the difficult - no, impossible - job of supporting the sponsors that provide much of the revenue that runs this site while at the same time allowing the open (if potentially frivolous and/or blatantly incorrect) exchange of information between members. No matter what we do, we're the bad guys to one party or another, so we're left with trying to strike a balance. As an example, we could have just deleted all your posts in this thread as inflammatory towards the staff and Macedo and off topic to the conversation about SVS. Instead, this thread has gone pages about a situation that IS ultimately off topic. I'm not saying that makes us above reproach, we are human after all, but you certainly are capable of seeing the difficult dilemma we face...there is no such thing as 'staying neutral', when even doing nothing implies taking a side.

I think we've about flogged this particular Equine to death. Let's keep this thread on topic and save the discussion about Kenny's car for a more appropriate time, should that time come.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

Brian,
I won't go as far as to repost the PM you sent me, but I will just say that little in it implied that you expected a response. It was, as is the majority of your message thus far in this thread, "You guys ****, Kenny got screwed and you should let him tell his story." That's ok, you're entitled to your opinion and obviously nobody here is going to change it.

But let's look at the facts: In the Kenny vs. Macedo thread, Macedo disputed the accuracy of the information presented. BY POLICY (and I capitalize that because it's important to note that we're not making up the rules as we go, we're enforcing the policies as they exist), when a dispute is raised, the thread gets removed at the very least until a solution is reached either between the tuner and the customer, or between those two parties and a judge. In most cases, that solution involves some agreement about disclosure to the rest of the community. Far as I know, that still hasn't happened in Kenny's case. Do you know otherwise?

The posts of Kenny's that were deleted were few and as a result of Kenny hijacking other peoples threads for the purpose of perpetuating the drama of his issue into other people's Viper experience despite some very polite requests from us not to do so. Again, a clear action of enforcing the site's policies on our part, not heavy handed "on the fly" administration.

In THIS thread, facts have been presented that have NOT been refuted by SVS, in fact SVS has asked that the thread not be deleted so that both sides may be told.

I fail to see how you can think that this forum has any part of anyone "getting taken by an unethical tuner." We have the difficult, no impossible job of supporting the sponsors that provide much of the revenue that runs this site while at the same time allowing the open (if potentially frivolous and/or blatantly incorrect) exchange of information between members. No matter what we do, we're the bad guys to one party or another, so we're left with trying to strike a balance. As an example, we could have just deleted all your posts in this thread as inflammatory towards the staff and Macedo and off topic to the conversation about SVS. Instead, this thread has gone pages about a situation that IS ultimately off topic. I'm not saying that makes us above reproach, we are human after all, but you certainly are capable of seeing the difficult dilemma we face...there is no such thing as 'staying neutral', when even doing nothing implies taking a side.

I think we've about flogged this particular Equine to death. Let's keep this thread on topic and save the discussion about Kenny's car for a more appropriate time, should that time come.

Kcobean where did I say you guys ****? Because I disagree with the way it was handled doesn't mean that. Because I have a differing opinion than you, Larry, Simms, I'm being inflammatory? Ok, whatever. I understand you guys have a tough job, if that's the rule then that's fine I will abide by it. It's just that when a member is told to be quite because a supporting vendor (someone who pays for advertising or sponsorship here) wants them quiet looks bad on the whole system. So they found a loop hole. I didn't agree with Kenny going on different threads and beating it in the ground either but felt that maybe he should have been told to stick to his topic on one thread at least that way he and Larry both could have gave their sides. Regardless, what was done was done none of us can change any of that. This was not meant to be a Kenny vs. Larry thing I just didn't understand why Kenny was hushed and now we have another similiar situation with SVS. Sorry if I offended you mods but I strongly disagreed with how that situation went down. On the bright side though I wasn't deleted for disagreeing with you. That is def a step in the right direction.

 

[Marc Lublin]

No, I said very soon.

Don't worry, this thread isn't going to go away

I want to be thorough

Where is it that you said "very soon"?

 

[v10kingsnake]

Where is it that you said "very soon"?

You think Dr. Seuss wrote Green Eggs and Ham off the cuff? It takes time to write classic works of fiction. He will post his response as soon as the masterpiece is completed.

 

[PhilC]

Has anyone else noticed that SVS has never placed an ad on this site. Jr sure uses it to post his self promoting threads in order to lure more unsuspecting customers. How do you think they afford to build their cars? My guess is that they use a porton of what they steal from customers.

Do what should be done with garbage, throw them out.

 

[GTSjbud]

You suspect alot don't you?

Man you're sure full of ridicule

Why do you think I'm spending my time on here at 8:30 pm Friday night?

Oh yeah, and your statement is completely innacurate

I'm sorry

 

[GTSjbud]

You think Dr. Seuss wrote Green Eggs and Ham off the cuff? It takes time to write classic works of fiction. He will post his response as soon as the masterpiece is completed.

That absolutely cracks me up