An SVS Story - pix
- Thread starter DrumrBoy
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big-n-italian
Enthusiast
You think Dr. Seuss wrote Green Eggs and Ham off the cuff? It takes time to write classic works of fiction. He will post his response as soon as the masterpiece is completed.
i think this is one of the funniest things i have ever read on these boards!
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Hey - what happened to Larry's response to John mistakenly labeled as Joe? I was waiting w/ popcorn on that one...
Jerome Sparich
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From Board Policies
9. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.
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Any mods care to address this?
I make a little post on an off topic section asking if anyone would like to go to an X-mas party and it gets deleted. Yet in this thread there is so much second and third hand bs flying around it is not even funny.
I understand that my post "was against board policy", but I don't understand how this is not being looked at for a rules infraction???
So what is it, who did I piss off that I had to be "moderated"?
9. Negative statements about vendors, customers, or others must be first hand, and substantiated. Furthermore, we reserve the right to hold negative posts until substantiated, and to give the parties reasonable time to work it out.
**************************
Any mods care to address this?
I make a little post on an off topic section asking if anyone would like to go to an X-mas party and it gets deleted. Yet in this thread there is so much second and third hand bs flying around it is not even funny.
I understand that my post "was against board policy", but I don't understand how this is not being looked at for a rules infraction???
So what is it, who did I piss off that I had to be "moderated"?
G
grcforce327
Guest
That Sam I am, That I sam I am,
I do not like that Sam I am,
I do not like Green Eggs and Ham!
My daughter reads it to me every night...
Tony,maybe this will help you say it "correctly"!!!
YouTube - Dr. Seuss' Green Eggs and Ham
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
back on topic: Here is a picture w/ a lifter front and back. Notice the notch on one side...
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
some of these graphs are hard for me to read from your post so if anyone needs better looking pics go here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/583085-whazzup-hp-dyno-sheet-pic.html
Also I think its fair we see the FULL dyno sheet (with rpm) from the top pic dated 6/21/03 and bottom pic. dated 7/29/06 the one with the better a/f tuning.
Can you please show a complete list of EVERYTHING you've had done to the car since you left SVS. What is the COMPLETE list without selectively cropping?
Jr, I can post the whole pic (though many of 'em are in my gallery already if you want to look there)
The cropping was an unintentional side effect of plopping the original scans into Powerpoint (so I could draw the lines and type stuff on 'em) and then saving as jpgs. It also had an unfortunate effect of reducing resolution.
Are you suggesting the flat spot occurs at 6000 or something?
Here's one that should show you where things went flat:
....and since you asked, here's a shot of the flywheel that I forgot to add in the original
The cropping was an unintentional side effect of plopping the original scans into Powerpoint (so I could draw the lines and type stuff on 'em) and then saving as jpgs. It also had an unfortunate effect of reducing resolution.
Are you suggesting the flat spot occurs at 6000 or something?
Here's one that should show you where things went flat:
....and since you asked, here's a shot of the flywheel that I forgot to add in the original
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Jr, I can post the whole pic (though many of 'em are in my gallery already if you want to look there)
The cropping was an unintentional side effect of plopping the original scans into Powerpoint (so I could draw the lines and type stuff on 'em) and then saving as jpgs. It also had an unfortunate effect of reducing resolution.
Are you suggesting the flat spot occurs at 6000 or something?
Here's one that should show you where things went flat:
I didn't need to see this dyno sheet. It's in full view on this thread that you started in 05:
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/583085-whazzup-hp-dyno-sheet-pic.html
I specifically asked for the ones I requested that are dated 6/21/03 and 7/29/06 to be in full view of all information of the entire sheet. Neither of these needed to be cropped or have anything drawn upon them. All they need is to be scanned and scaled. They could have been kept with all info in plain view. It's more appropriate that they're posted in this thread for all to see. If we were in a legal court and you brought me a dyno sheet that you were making claims about and only showed half the information that was obviously cropped out then you would be requested to show the rest of the sheet. What would you call it? If we're going to have a full and thorough investigation then we need to see ALL THE DATA.
Can you take care of that for us please?
If you have receipts for ALL WORK COMPLETED AFTER YOUR VIPER LEFT SVS that would be great. If not just itemize everything for all to see. If there's anything else from Fields or Finishline that you might have cropped out then I would like that presented also.
You need to be specific It has been 4 years.
Y2K5SRT
Enthusiast
Actually, your Christmas party thread was deleted as it VERY clearly violated this rule:
12. Event posts to the forums by non-VCA Members will be subject to deletion. If you wish to announce an event, please contact the regional president for that area and coordinate it accordingly. Event posts are allowed only by paid VCA members/officers and should be posted in the appropriate regional forum where the event is to take place.
As for this thread, it falls within the guidelines 100%:
- It is first hand (the thread starter)
- It is substantiated (documented)
- Neither of the TWO affected parties have asked for it to be removed until it is resolved - both the original poster and SVS are apparently content to have it aired in the court of public opinion.
So a friendly warning: Any other tuner (non-SVS) or site policy mention that follows this one will be subject to immediate deletion. We welcome your feedback on policies and you are encouraged to post it here: http://forums.viperclub.org/posting-policies/
Thank you for your understanding.
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Marc Lublin
Enthusiast
Oh, I see, I was supposed to read that too!
I have to say, your response was pretty lame. There was a detailed account of problems resulting from you company and over a week later you come back with, I need more information?
JR, just post your side of what happened here. I believe that is what everyone is looking for.
I have to say, your response was pretty lame. There was a detailed account of problems resulting from you company and over a week later you come back with, I need more information?
JR, just post your side of what happened here. I believe that is what everyone is looking for.
v10kingsnake
Viper Owner
insert the sound of hearing a pin drop...
Pitt Formula Racer
Enthusiast
..or a large male cow taking a dump on the computer.
GTSjbud
Viper Owner
They're consulting Dr. Seuss for a good story. Ron Jr quote: "Also I think its fair we see the FULL dyno sheet (with rpm) from the top pic dated 6/21/03 and bottom pic. dated 7/29/06 the one with the better a/f tuning"
Why is this more important than addresing why SVS installs lifters and clutches incorrectly, takes 30 hours to swap half shafts and doesn't bother to install other things billed until the customer complains?
Methinks you ought to respond to the real issues rather than ask for complete copies of dyno sheets. The amount of hours one spends (or bills for) installing half shafts doesn't really show up on a dyno sheet, does it?
You claim that these jpgs didn't need to be written on. Wrong again....I whited out phone numbers and other stuff I had written on them in the margin because I didn't want to drag my business phone messages into this!
Ron Jr. quote: "f we were in a legal court and you brought me a dyno sheet that you were making claims about and only showed half the information that was obviously cropped out then you would be requested to show the rest of the sheet"
Its really really difficult to show information that was cropped out. I wish I knew that trick. I'll assume you meant only showed half the information "that wasn't cropped out". So here're the two dyno sheets you asked about in their full glory....though I don't think they help you explain the lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things.
One last thing, in one of your more recent posts that had nothing to do with lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things you asked for :
Ron Jr. quote: "receipts for ALL WORK COMPLETED AFTER YOUR VIPER LEFT SVS "
I find it slightly insulting that you'd want to see receipts for floor mats and touch up paint rather than address the real issues. For your benefit I'll repeat them again: lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things
Please tell your legal staff to hurry up, we're all tiring of this crap.
Why is this more important than addresing why SVS installs lifters and clutches incorrectly, takes 30 hours to swap half shafts and doesn't bother to install other things billed until the customer complains?
Methinks you ought to respond to the real issues rather than ask for complete copies of dyno sheets. The amount of hours one spends (or bills for) installing half shafts doesn't really show up on a dyno sheet, does it?
You claim that these jpgs didn't need to be written on. Wrong again....I whited out phone numbers and other stuff I had written on them in the margin because I didn't want to drag my business phone messages into this!
Ron Jr. quote: "f we were in a legal court and you brought me a dyno sheet that you were making claims about and only showed half the information that was obviously cropped out then you would be requested to show the rest of the sheet"
Its really really difficult to show information that was cropped out. I wish I knew that trick. I'll assume you meant only showed half the information "that wasn't cropped out". So here're the two dyno sheets you asked about in their full glory....though I don't think they help you explain the lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things.
One last thing, in one of your more recent posts that had nothing to do with lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things you asked for :
Ron Jr. quote: "receipts for ALL WORK COMPLETED AFTER YOUR VIPER LEFT SVS "
I find it slightly insulting that you'd want to see receipts for floor mats and touch up paint rather than address the real issues. For your benefit I'll repeat them again: lifters, clutch, shifter, half-shafts, bad bad cam and other assorted bad things
Please tell your legal staff to hurry up, we're all tiring of this crap.
S
SUN RA KAT
Guest
Sorry to hear of your nightmare DrumrBoy, but contratulations in posting your story to alert other Viper owners of your experience. I think if the tuner disputes the evidence that you have posted, then they can post their side of the story and both sides can be viewed in public. This would prevent tuners from disputing the evidence just to hush up the incident while they continue to rip off more unsuspecting customers and also protect the tuners from customers making false statements against them in public.
To paraphrase Viper Scot -
I've had some bad experiences over the years of getting ripped off by tuners/ mechanics (Viper-related I hasten to add) and it's the worst feeling knowing that you've trusted someone with your car, parted with some hard cash and not got what you wanted (or, indeed, the car's come back in worse shape than when it went to the shop). And especially frustrating when they won't accept responsibility after the event and you've got to spend even more $$$ to get things straightened out...
To paraphrase Viper Scot -
I've had some bad experiences over the years of getting ripped off by tuners/ mechanics (Viper-related I hasten to add) and it's the worst feeling knowing that you've trusted someone with your car, parted with some hard cash and not got what you wanted (or, indeed, the car's come back in worse shape than when it went to the shop). And especially frustrating when they won't accept responsibility after the event and you've got to spend even more $$$ to get things straightened out...
1MEANSNAKE
Enthusiast
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I would never take my Viper or other vehicles to SVS! I'm sorry you had to go through that nightmare, but you should at least feel better knowing that you have helped many others from going down that path. I've seen first hand some of the twisted crap that UGR had to fix from SVS and it's not pretty! Some of it is actually amazing. It's nice having a shop like UGR that you can rely on and stands behind their work 100% and then some. I even had Kevin call me to see how my car is after a few months of having it back. Take heed everyone, take heed!
big-n-italian
Enthusiast
viperDoug
Enthusiast
Is there ever going to be a response from this guy? I always thought there were two sides to a story....but apparently not in this case.
IEATVETS
Enthusiast
I have met Jr. before and seems like a stand up guy but by him not responding sure casts some shadows on his character. Come on Jr., please respond!
kcobean
Enthusiast
Guys, please be patient. SVS is assembling documentation and has committed to a response in this thread.
On that note, I'd like to remind everyone that while this thread is what it is, the rules of the forums still apply. No personal attacks, comments must be toward the subject at hand, etc. Please don't keep us poor mods busy deleting posts that violate the rules. We're old and tired and work in the snow 26 hours a day.
Thanks very much!
On that note, I'd like to remind everyone that while this thread is what it is, the rules of the forums still apply. No personal attacks, comments must be toward the subject at hand, etc. Please don't keep us poor mods busy deleting posts that violate the rules. We're old and tired and work in the snow 26 hours a day.
Thanks very much!
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
I think all tuners have made a mistake or two in the past - most of the time mistakes are picked up before the car leaves the shop and the customer never even knows. But when a customer is the one to find a problem - that is when they discover who they are dealing with.
I know that Jason Heffner, Doug Levin, Kevin from UGR and there's bound to be others - have gone beyond the call of duty to make a customer happy - and in fact would not let a car out of their sight until they were happy with the way it went. Sometimes this has cost them hard cash to get it right - to their own satisfaction - because they care about what people think about them AND are prepared to stand behind their work with their money not their mouth.
To take a 520rwhp car and pay five figures for it to be rebuilt and make 100rwhp less then be told "be happy" - and be fitted with a cam smaller than stock... I really do not think I need to hear the other side. I've been around this game a long time and have seen every type. Eventually customers know competence from incompetence.
This matter could have easily been forgiven and never made public - had SVS manned up and said "sorry - we messed up, how can we make it right?" and if they could not - offer compensation.
**** ups cost real cash - tough **** - cough it up or go away. That is why some businesses make it and others are always dogged by rumours and never get real traction.
and Jr - we've not had any beef - and I respect your latest record (232mph) - and suspect your dad needs to bugger off if he thinks he can treat customers like he did concreting, but as spokesperson you have to shoulder responsibility or put your dad in his place - but do spare us some BS green eggs and ham novel about how unfair this story is on SVS.
BS - you have been documented and exposed here and everyone can see your dangly bits. Maybe you have improved 200% since then - gee lets hope so - but there can be no win win here. hence silence may be golden unless you are willing to dig deep into your pockets to do the only thing that could be done here - and that is compensate a customer that did not get what they reasonably paid for.
anyone think I'm being unreasonable here?
engines are not magic folk - you build em with good parts and competence then tune em - and guess what - they GO. Imagine buying a $20k 650hp motor from John Kaase and finding it only made 400hp and he said - "gee - bugger, oh well - be happy."
END OF STORY
I know that Jason Heffner, Doug Levin, Kevin from UGR and there's bound to be others - have gone beyond the call of duty to make a customer happy - and in fact would not let a car out of their sight until they were happy with the way it went. Sometimes this has cost them hard cash to get it right - to their own satisfaction - because they care about what people think about them AND are prepared to stand behind their work with their money not their mouth.
To take a 520rwhp car and pay five figures for it to be rebuilt and make 100rwhp less then be told "be happy" - and be fitted with a cam smaller than stock... I really do not think I need to hear the other side. I've been around this game a long time and have seen every type. Eventually customers know competence from incompetence.
This matter could have easily been forgiven and never made public - had SVS manned up and said "sorry - we messed up, how can we make it right?" and if they could not - offer compensation.
**** ups cost real cash - tough **** - cough it up or go away. That is why some businesses make it and others are always dogged by rumours and never get real traction.
and Jr - we've not had any beef - and I respect your latest record (232mph) - and suspect your dad needs to bugger off if he thinks he can treat customers like he did concreting, but as spokesperson you have to shoulder responsibility or put your dad in his place - but do spare us some BS green eggs and ham novel about how unfair this story is on SVS.
BS - you have been documented and exposed here and everyone can see your dangly bits. Maybe you have improved 200% since then - gee lets hope so - but there can be no win win here. hence silence may be golden unless you are willing to dig deep into your pockets to do the only thing that could be done here - and that is compensate a customer that did not get what they reasonably paid for.
anyone think I'm being unreasonable here?
engines are not magic folk - you build em with good parts and competence then tune em - and guess what - they GO. Imagine buying a $20k 650hp motor from John Kaase and finding it only made 400hp and he said - "gee - bugger, oh well - be happy."
END OF STORY
viperDoug
Enthusiast
I agree 100%. I run my own business and I have had to dig into my pockets to compensate for a mistake that one of my employees or myself have made and almost always the customer never even knows. It's not "good business" to me....it's business.
ViperJay
Viper Owner
the sound of silence is deafening. i will take that as the svs response. methinks that he is looking for loopholes or a nice lawyerly runaround to spin the outcome in his favor. bottom line is a long pause with no favorable outcome = drummer is screwed. even a handholding would suffice while the reply is being written. svs, dont bother at this point. my mind and others is probably already made up with the lack of information on your part. i know if i am under the impression that im being taken advantage of (weather i am or not), the no response or delayed response is what burns me up more than anything else. this is not a legal court and i cant understand why you are formulating a response as if your being sued. damage to you is already done at this point and your business will suffer for it. its a shame you just didnt come out and express your opinion right away and avoid speculation and then deal with the facts as they come out. trust is a very tough thing to build, even more so after you have the opportunity to rebuild that trust and fail on that opportunity. i cannot and will never do business with you. this thread is done for me.
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