AutoGuide on HP Situation Viper & Challenger Hellcat

[Grisoman]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/03/chrysler-hellcat-v8-unseat-viper-v10-hp.html

“We have a situation where, you know — we may have a situation — where the flagship car is not the most powerful car in our arsenal … how do we explain that to ourselves? So we have an internal horsepower race as well as an external one,” Ralph Gilles, CEO of SRT told Hot Rod

 

[Paul Hawker]

I guess, if you have a problem with too much horsepower, that is not all that bad of a problem to have.

Viper is a well balanced road racing car. Challenger will be a much heavier, more nose heavy street dominator. Do not believe all that many people will cross shop those cars.

I believe the Rolls Royce Phantom (part of BMW/Volkswagen) makes more torque than their corporate road racers. Maybe not really that big a problem after all.

 

[ACRBruce]

Not if Mopar offers a SC kit for the Viper and brings HP to 750+

 

[bluesrt]

Not if Mopar offers a SC kit for the Viper and brings HP to 750+

there ya go, srt would sell a bunch

 

[Boxer12]

Somehow the Viper needs a steroid shot! I think turbos but I know it will cost plenty and that's the issue..maybe Ferrari can supply the motor?

 

[Free2go]

Paleeeeez. The Challenger would need 150 more hp than the Viper just to keep up. Way too much lard. They'll probably sell a whooooole bunch of them though as every hardworking redneck in America will scramble to get one.

 

[HANKFAN]

If an aftermarket supercharger kit is brought to market the new Viper will not have anything to fear from the Hellcat!

 

[kdaviper]

Paleeeeez. The Challenger would need 150 more hp than the Viper just to keep up. Way too much lard. They'll probably sell a whooooole bunch of them though as every hardworking redneck in America will scramble to get one.

They'd better work hard too; price tag is rumored to be north of 70k for a hellcat Chally

 

[kdaviper]

Viper Scat Pack?
could be installed pre-dealership for those who order custom cars from the factory
could be available in stages
but would have to retain factory warranty somehow.

 

[EllowViper]

SRT Challengers are always hassling me out driving around. I'd like to be a fly on their dash when my 13 yrs old Viper smacks them back to reality.

 

[Free2go]

I've dusted many a Challenger in my little 370Z.

 

[1BADGTS]

If an aftermarket supercharger kit is brought to market the new Viper will not have anything to fear from the Hellcat!

Comparing an aftermaket supercharching kit with that of a factory application is like comparing a burger from McDonalds and a steak from Peter Lugars because both of them come fom a cow .An aftermarket blower kit in the 800 hp range is a disaster waiting to happen on a 100k car Over the past 20 years have seen numerious BLOWER kits tested in Viper apps Run heatsoaked on a hot day in boost its basically KABOOM AFTER A FEW RUNS .The fact app is totally diferent basically because the Rand D budget is 100 times that of something like a Paxton

 

[1BADGTS]

Ps SRT durability criteria for a factory engine is 72 hours straight run at yellow line on a dyno.In perspective your average bolt on blower kit wouldnt last within a mile of that timeframe

 

[Free2go]

So, the Challenger gets a factory tuned supercharger whilst the Viper struggles for survival. Nice.

 

[ViperSmith]

If you want to go brag to kids at the local high school about how much HP the car has, go buy a Challenger and save yourself a few bucks. Problem solved.

 

[kdaviper]

So, the Challenger gets a factory tuned supercharger whilst the Viper struggles for survival. Nice.

The only ones who have said the Viper is struggling are the media outlets, who are using the plant shutdown to get hits on their websites, and views on their Youtube accounts. SRT has orders for new Vipers, they don't want to build any more until some of the incompetent dealers get some of them off their lots.
Also, the Hellcat is first in line for the next generation of Hemi engines, they will base the new 5.7 and 6.4 off of revisions made to the Hellcat. Furthermore, the Hellcat can be used in more than just one vehicle and shares more parts with other engines than the Viper mill does.

 

[Free2go]

ViperSmith, say your cruising to the track and a new Z07 rolls up on you on the highway and throttles up. You wouldn't want to have an extra 150 hp on tap for that scenario? It ain't all about the track buddy.

 

[1BADGTS]

So, the Challenger gets a factory tuned supercharger whilst the Viper struggles for survival. Nice.

Its EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to have a single platform engine and make money .Going back to 2003 John Coletti told me he would have loved to have used a single platform motor in the FGT (truely set it apart )but it was not economically feasable .If the Viper shared an engline platform like the Vette and Mustang its an entiely different ballgame as 750 plus horsepower is easy for them to do with forced induction The money is there because the cost is assumulated over the entire model platform life .(How many cars and trucks are running around with the varient of the engine going in the new Vette Were in a senerio where SRT engineers have their hands tied because of their limited budget as the Rand D cost to produce more power in the Viper is just not feasable

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

FWIS, Team Viper had to spend a major part of their engine budget getting the V10 back into production and meeting the emission standards. The mods to increase power were very modest. There's more to be had. All it takes is money.

GM has also said that the Vett is not into competition with the Camaro and that you might see some interesting power comparisons there also.

Looks like both corps are trying to separate their muscle/pony cars from their sports cars.

 

[MoparMap]

I think the Viper has a hard enough time meeting emissions and noise standards as is. I can't see a supercharger making their job any easier. Also, I don't know about a lot of you, but my little 500-odd horsepower gen 3 has way more power than I can use on any public road anyway. When it breaks the tires loose going up an on-ramp at 80 mph it makes me rethink the idea of heads and a cam. It would just mean that I can now spin them at 100+, which I don't need to be doing.

 

[1BADGTS]

I think the Viper has a hard enough time meeting emissions and noise standards as is. I can't see a supercharger making their job any easier. Also, I don't know about a lot of you, but my little 500-odd horsepower gen 3 has way more power than I can use on any public road anyway. When it breaks the tires loose going up an on-ramp at 80 mph it makes me rethink the idea of heads and a cam. It would just mean that I can now spin them at 100+, which I don't need tlo be doing.

When used on an existing platform engine the blower makes the package MUCH MUCH more cost efficient Specifically if you look at the Cobra Mustang and Z06 Vette the blower is simply an extension of existing platform tech (The Rand D cost are assumulated over ever model using that motor platform ) .Emissions ,driveability are not really effected as the cam profiles are near stock .SRT can easily get more power out of the current Gen (It will not pass emissions or driveability but it will make more power LOL )If you look at the competition the only companys doing it NA are Lambo and Ferarri as the dollar cost to do it as astronomical In the new Z06 Chevy aband the NA for all the reasons listed above

 

[1BADGTS]

FWIS, Team Viper had to spend a major part of their engine budget getting the V10 back into production and meeting the emission standards. The mods to increase power were very modest. There's more to be had. All it takes is money.

GM has also said that the Vett is not into competition with the Camaro and that you might see some interesting power comparisons there also.
t
Looks like both corps are trying to separate their muscle/pony cars from their sports cars.[/QUOTE Well put hence the reason for GEN 5 being rated at 640 hp was no other than money (or lack of it in the RAND D BUDGET )We have single use low production motor platform. All in all its great to say the V10 is unique to the Viper but having something that unique is now becoming a 2 edge sword because theres no money coming in to go further .In perspectiveside (big power changes aside ) if SRT changes so much as an air filter on the thing it requires a complete EPA recert which is a fortune

 

[Free2go]

Hey, if they can't afford to change anything because of EPA hoops to jump through...unlock the PCM and let "the people" do it their damn self. BOOM (drops the mic)

 

[1BADGTS]

Hey, if they can't afford to change anything because of EPA hoops to jump through...unlock the PCM and let "the people" GETS do it their damn self. BOOM (drops the mic)

Unlocking the PCM is a no win senerio for Dodge .Should something happen between the warranty claims and neg publicity SRT cant win.A motor goes because a tuner messed with the air fuel and the customer FORGETS about the aftermarket work and throws it back to Dodge For the hundred owners of Gen 4 and 5s that would actually want to mod them its not worth it to SRT

 

[1BADGTS]

LOL i can hear the conversation now between the sevice manager and customer .What superchsrger, i dont know anything about a supercharger .The only thing i know is i paid 125k for this car theres a hole in a piston for no reason and Dodge will not warranty it .

 

[Free2go]

Dingdong said the bottom end is "bullet proof"....

 

[1BADGTS]

Dingdong said the bottom end is "bullet proof"....

For whatever reason if detonation occurs i can tell you first hand there is absolutely positively no such thing as bullet proof .You could take a GEN 5 bottom end and replace it with components rated to handle 2000 horsepower and if your fuel management is off (bolt on forced induction application ) it leans out and detonates one can often throw the engine out .

 

[1BADGTS]

PS the better components give it a higher threshold but when you have an engine engineered from the factory to be NAT ASPERATED and then modifyed with forced induction it can lead to problems.These problems are a definate reason Dodge doesnt want to unlock the PCM( I guess they figure that if someone wants to mod it that badly they will have to pay for the standalone sysyems like the AEM ECT )

 

[1BADGTS]

In 1992 i was running a Paxton (9 lbs boost )on one of my Vetts done by the Carroll Supercharging Company in NJ .The bottom end components were rated for 750 plus hp (forged crank,Crower Rods Manley Pistons .)The engine was making around 550 (no intercooler )and i literally put 5 shortblocks in it .On a hot day in boost (heatsoaked motor )i used to wind up with holes the size of dimes in the pistons

 

[Free2go]

Was it a good idea to run a Paxton at 9lbs of boost...in 1992...with no intercooler...on a hot ass day...with what was probably a crappy tune if any at all?