Bikes and Vipers on curvy roads ????

[RedEnuf93]

Pennsylvania, RT 339

I met 3 crotchrockets few weeks ago on 339 in Pennsylvania. Those who have been on this road knows it is extremely curvy with nice climbs and downhills. This is why so many bikes gather there to have fun.

I ended up there with my -93 Viper.

To make a story short, I had a great time with 3 bikes.
2 of them I was capable to eliminate easily within a mile or so. Obviously not that experienced drivers.

Last one was a good driver with metalpads on his knees. In every corner I ended up eating massive amounts of sparks flying in air. Very cool looking. He laid the bike as horizontally as I have ever seen. Our speeds were between 50-100 mph. There was no way I could have takes him on that narrow road, but he was not able to shake me off either. Road is about 4-5 miles long, it was a a blast!
We all gave thumbs up and departed. He was shaking his head too....

My question is, have you ever raced bikes on a extremely curvy road?

Did I just meet some incompetent drivers (well, at least the 2 were...) or is Viper actually good enough to keep the pace with bikes?
I have to admit that I was driving at the limits of flying off the road.

I am not interrested who's better, it was just a whole lot of fun, I think the bike guys enjoyed it as much as I did!

Lauri

 

[ChoiceViper]

Great post Red! A fast car can corner WAY better than a C-rocket.
Four wheel traction sticks.
Remember F1 cars typically lap any given track almost twice as fast as the F1 bikes......... Just food for thought.

I've had my ass handed to me by some fast cars. WRX's, Porsches, Vipers and Z06's. I'm no GP racer for sure, but I've been riding for fifteen years or so.
Here's the current ride. I know! I know! Not brand new and state of the art but still fast.

 

[plumcrazy]

Ive run with a few bikes here in north jersey on some fun winding roads and have always kept up with them and sometimes they keep up with me too. it is a blast

 

[ZX12]

Great post Red! A fast car can corner WAY better than a C-rocket.
Four wheel traction sticks.
Remember F1 cars typically lap any given track almost twice as fast as the F1 bikes......... Just food for thought.

I've had my ass handed to me by some fast cars. WRX's, Porsches, Vipers and Z06's. I'm no GP racer for sure, but I've been riding for fifteen years or so.
Here's the current ride. I know! I know! Not brand new and state of the art but still fast.

I wouldn't say a car corners 'way' better than a superbike, especially if the bike is ridden by a seasoned racer. Remember that article last year, where a stock GSXR 1000 was run against a stock Z06 at Willow Springs? The bike dominated over the car, beating it by 8 seconds per lap. The car and bike were both driven by a person who has raced both cars and bikes. They calculated that the bike was pulling slightly more g's around the track that day than the car was (they used telemetry to confirm times).

Now on an autocross, with extremely tight turns, a car could have an advantage, due to the cars stability. Formula 1 cars do lap faster than F1 bikes, but not twice as fast. F1 cars do corner much better than F1 bikes, but remember that F1 cars have ground effects and sit right at the ground, and can pull over 3 g's in turns. Something you really don't see on the street. Superbikes barely pull over 1 g; anything more is due to sticky tire technology. F1 bikes can hit over 210 mph, so they're not slow. At Willow, the fastest car (an Indy car) lapped 1:06, while a superbike has gone 1:19. A stock GSXR 1000 can go 1:25. Stock Z06's go around 1:35.

On the street however, bikes can be at a disadvantage since most riders will not push their bikes to the limit; they leave quite a bit of a 'safety margin' since bikes are much more unforgiving and the consequences for messing up are much more severe. So you usually will not see bikes pushed to their limits on the street (cornering wise) unless they are very experienced and know the road really well.

 

[Torquemonster]

My experience racing along in my car against bikes is this:

The fast bikes will be much better under brakes and out of a turn for obvious reasons, but the turn in on any decent car on tightish turns is much better, and the tighter the turn the bigger the advantage to the car.

Therefore on a real twisty road even a 2 litre Ricer will swallow a rider up unless the straights between are long enough for the bike to get too far ahead.

I remember racing a 600 sports bike along a narrow twisty gorge road - the guy was ******* his bike for all it was worth, pulled me on every straight, but I nearly ran him over into every turn because he had to slow down much more than I did to get around on the 2nd gear corners. It was a blast with him and I see-sawing the whole way. He'd pull me on the straights and I'd get him on all the tight turns, and hold him on the faster turns.

In a Viper I'd imagine the advantage would be significant given a road bike will never see anything close to 1g except on fast sweepers where it can dig in.. but on the tight turns they just won't lean enough to generate the g-forces. The Viper will just climb right over them in second gear corners.

There may be one exception - and I've not come across it while driving hard - and that is a well set up motorcross bike on ROAD tires!!! Those babies could potentially be very good on tighter roads as they will lean WAY more than a road bike can. Anyone riden one of these trick setups?

 

[gthomas]

We used to go to the 'loops' here in Jax, Fl., and the 250's would consistently beat larger displacement bikes, due to getting 'lower'.

 

[SingleMalt]

Nice Ohlins!!!

[/QUOTE]

 

[RedEnuf93]

Thanks Guys.

It was lots of fun, I was unsure about the outcome. Actually I thought I was going to get a beating, big time...
At the end of the road, he did a sort of a braking??, where he lifted the rear wheel WAY UP in the air. I stopped and said, sorry, but I just cannot do THAT!!!!
He laughed.

Lauri

 

[RedEnuf93]

ZX-12,

One of my guys I work with has the same bike you do, a R-1.
That is one mean bike... I dont care how old it is..

His bike looks very different though.
He has flipped it over 3 times, broke both wheels and all faring, exhaust, nuts and bolts. It is nowdays covered with blue "hairy stuff". He got tired of fixing it, so he glued some sort of crap on it you make teddybears of..

Last week he asked to borrow my Viper for a date..
I said, I have only one question: "Am I going to get it back with or without the "fur" ?"

He laughed.(and did not get the Viper)

Lauri

 

[FrankBarba]

Lauri,

You need to come down to Summit Point this weekend for a Hight Performance Drivers School. I'll lend you a helmet.
As much fun as you had. You will have more.

 

[dansauto]

Rear wheel lifts are called "stoppies" I got a cool video of a couple of guys doing these during bike week this year in Myrtle Beach. One guy in the rear could not stop in time and slid (on his front tire) into the guys in front. No one got hurt, but it was funny as h3ll!

 

[RedEnuf93]

Frank,
I would like to go out and have fun on the track. I did some track time at Texas motor speedway (inside track) and at Motor Ranch, It was a blast!

I will definately do that next year, my friend wants to see the Viper-Ferrari Challenge. This might be a good time to go there too? Before that, I would like to come to the track first and see what I need. New agressive pads (instead of the "street" EBC Greens), since they are just about worthless on track. I may have to do some other changes. This is where a small orientation might do miracles?

Unfortunately I cannot come this weekend... Bummer...

I am meeting Dan (from above at Dansauto) on Sunday. He will tow my wifes Expedition to Gillett and get it fixed in his bodyshop. My wife was testing the scratch resistancy of Ford paint on a steel pole. Expedition lost....

Frank, I'll be watching the posts. If it is not too much trouble, keep me in mind when you get more track info regarding next year. I am definately interrested.

Dan, I dont think I can do the "stoppies" with my EBC greens???? (but I dont have to clean the wheels!)

Thanks, Lauri

 

[FrankBarba]

Come on down Saturday as my guest. Its only a few hours from lancaster. Sit back & watch.

 

[RedEnuf93]

Frank,
I would like to thank you on behalf of me and Tom.
It was very interresting to see Viper, Porsches, BMW's, Hondas and even a -67 Mustang on the Summit Point Raceway.
We had great time, I wish I could have driven my car at the track, but after seeing the condition of most of the cars, I might stick with the curvy roads of 125 and 339...

This was the forst time I saw a VIper at the track, it was amazing how smooth the car ran and handled. What a great race car to be almost 8 years old!

Thanks Frank for the invitation and hospitality, definately worth the trip from Lancaster.

Lauri

 

[FrankBarba]

Lauri,
thanks for comming down. What a beautiful day. My car is very well sorted out. Took along time to get there and now she is ready to be turned over to someone else. What a great car for someone who is ready to make the grade from novice to racer. Why is the car forsale? I can't tell you yet but come November 14 if car is not sold car will be put to bed for sometime.

The race on Saturday saw full course yellows lots of cars off track and the Reptile Racing Viper taking First Place honors and 5th overall. Sundays race same results. First in class & 7th overall. NASA is lots of fun and the Trophy Girls are great also.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Some Bikes came upon our event this past weekend. We had 18 Vipers, the hottest of the bikes passed all as we were running in "spirited mode", but not all out.

At least until the bike passed the front car.... and pulled then pulled a wheelie. Well, the lead SRT-10 was driven by some one who know the road like the back of his hand, and did not take to such a stunt very well. He then ran with the bike for about two miles. In the corners he was all over the bike, in the straights, it was a draw. Then he realized the rest of us were "somewhere" behind, and slowed 'till we caught up.

We all pulled into a gas station at the end of the "curvies" and chatted, all the bikes stopped and they mentioned they were impressed. Except for the bikes passing in places that could have got them killed, it was interesting.

 

[Yves]

This is my observation :
Viper indeed is faster and more stable MID corner.
The drive out of the corner is way faster on an R1, by a wide margin. As a result, the bike makes way more speed on the straights.

A couple of weeks ago Jon B took me for a ride at Portland International Raceway. We can call him an experienced driver. At the end of the long straight he topped out his ACR at 120 mph. When I used to race there I hit the brakes of my R1 at 165 mph.
The Vipers were running 1 minute 20s around the track. I used to lap at 1.12s.

Maybe on a track which is nothing but a succession of tight corners, yes. If not, dream on.

 

[DChan415]

The bikes faster... hands down. No contest. Which one would you push harder though? Thats a different story.