Got_Vnum
Viper Owner
I just had DC install their billet steering rack bushings to replace my worn out rubber ones - WOW - made a huge difference in turn-in response and feel. Great upgrade for the $$$.
Billet steering rack bushings - great upgrade
- Thread starter Got_Vnum
- Start date
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I've thought about getting these. I just haven't gotten around to it yet.
My snake is getting striped w/Vipair hood I'll try to post some after.
Link.
DC Performance: Proven Performance .
Got_Vnum
Viper Owner
I don't track my car, but I do some canyon cruising and the turn-in response is so much more immediate with these bushings. I think you would love these considering how much track time your Viper sees.
Black Moon
Enthusiast
They are simple on a Gen3 but I haven't done it yet thinking how tight my steering is now. Can someone that has them what benefit they have besides taking ALL the play out of the steering?
Thanks
Thanks
TCurtner
Enthusiast
You can take the play out of the steering, but you can't take the play out of the driver! 
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
What was the indication that made you think you should do this?
I have ~108K and these are the kinds of things that are on the bucket list.
TIA
2000_Black_RT10
Enthusiast
Personally I hate the thought of hard mounting anything on a street driven car. Components surely enjoy a better life with a bit of bushing compliance.
Race cars driven on a track, but be aware most race cars have a short life, hard joints transfer far too much energy or shock into the component, yet this is a situation in which performance outweighs longterm durability.
Yet.. somebody will say it's all been tested... ya.... ya... but it's usually from those who haven't been involved with or who have never worked at an OEM and has been exposed to extensive durability testing.
Good luck,
Mike
Race cars driven on a track, but be aware most race cars have a short life, hard joints transfer far too much energy or shock into the component, yet this is a situation in which performance outweighs longterm durability.
Yet.. somebody will say it's all been tested... ya.... ya... but it's usually from those who haven't been involved with or who have never worked at an OEM and has been exposed to extensive durability testing.
Good luck,
Mike
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Mike, in the case of steering rack bushings, are not the tires enough of an energy absorber? I figured it is the sidewall roll stiffness that provides a little compliance.
Black Moon
Enthusiast
So do they make it too tight or too responsive? Mine is already tight and I thought about these but would like some feedback from those who have them. Feedback please......
2000_Black_RT10
Enthusiast
You caught my rant Tom, apology, but to explain more; it's not about a side load case. As you know the tie rod is offset from the king pin axis / kunckle. Typically the most abrupt hit to a rack bushing would be a combined braking and *** hole scenerio. As in designing control arms for OEMs, strength requirements can be around 20 kN (converts to approx. 4500 lb force) at the tire / wheel spindle, so that moment around the kin pin in this load case is fed directly to the tie rod and which goes into the rack. Race cars don't deal with many load cases that a street car would, which concerns me when folks thinks a racing component is compatible with street use. This load if not absorbed by the rack bushing, it is then transferred into the control arm bushings, and control arms have broken at the bushing due to these types of load cases and a stiff rack bushing will definitely cause a negative impact to the strength of a control arm. Changing one part / bushing can impact an entire system. Component fatigue is something that happens over time, and once a parts breaks, it can be a serious safety issue. Many of these aftermarket companies do not test the entire system as OEMs have, as they spend years on validating vehicles and individual components. I guarantee this would never pass OEM testing, and if the manufacturer decided to have a bushing with a selected bushing rate, this decision was based on many factors and it's something not to be dismissed or replaced with a solid bushing due to safety without their approval.
Cheers, it's Friday, also time to cheer myself up eh'.....
Mike
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Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
True. Components being the kidneys and tooth fillings of wannabees who want to appear to be driving a sports without really driving a sports car.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Understood, thanks. Come spring time I'll inspect with a crow bar and see if the bushings have become "more compliant" than designed.
2000_Black_RT10
Enthusiast
I have to emphasize that changing to solid mounts anywhere in a suspension system such as solid mounts on the rack will transmit more force to the control arm (and other components) for example in a braking and *** hole load case.
Here is an example of a Viper control arm failure with the OEM bushings from one of the members that I evaluated, pics below. It is a reminder that the under extreme / extraordinary cases, even stock bushings for the suspension system can result in a failure, even a worse case if the bushings are worn out. It is an ethical responsibility as a design engineer to communicate this for safety, in such that I have worked in design engineering for Chrysler, Ford and now GM.
I may have known a bit more about this past case; in which the Ford GT was encountering control arm failure issues and had to replace the cast aluminum control arms with billet aluminum control arms. See this link for a hint, in the Reliability section, second paragraph:
Ford GT - Wikicars
I would think that the Dodge Viper cast control arm is ok with the stock bushings (in good shape), but there are extreme cases such as accidents hitting stuff, etc., that can cause failure. Yet, changing to a solid bushing anywhere in the suspension system that was not tested or validated by the OEM is extremely dangerous unknowingly increasing the risk of failure, especially for street usage which typical race cars do not encounter. In other words, if an aftermarket component works for the race track doesn't necessarily mean it is ok for the street! Engineering cars for the street is far more complicated than designing parts for the track in many aspects.
Best regards,
Mike
Here is an example of a Viper control arm failure with the OEM bushings from one of the members that I evaluated, pics below. It is a reminder that the under extreme / extraordinary cases, even stock bushings for the suspension system can result in a failure, even a worse case if the bushings are worn out. It is an ethical responsibility as a design engineer to communicate this for safety, in such that I have worked in design engineering for Chrysler, Ford and now GM.
I may have known a bit more about this past case; in which the Ford GT was encountering control arm failure issues and had to replace the cast aluminum control arms with billet aluminum control arms. See this link for a hint, in the Reliability section, second paragraph:
Ford GT - Wikicars
I would think that the Dodge Viper cast control arm is ok with the stock bushings (in good shape), but there are extreme cases such as accidents hitting stuff, etc., that can cause failure. Yet, changing to a solid bushing anywhere in the suspension system that was not tested or validated by the OEM is extremely dangerous unknowingly increasing the risk of failure, especially for street usage which typical race cars do not encounter. In other words, if an aftermarket component works for the race track doesn't necessarily mean it is ok for the street! Engineering cars for the street is far more complicated than designing parts for the track in many aspects.
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Best regards,
Mike
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What was the extreme/extraordinary case that led to this control arm failure?
2000_Black_RT10
Enthusiast
Hello Tony - Unfortunately the owner of this Viper bought it used and was not aware of the prior history, it had approximately 4500 miles on the ODO. He changed to a bigger brake setup and drove down the road after the install, hit the brakes and the control arm finally broke. We are assuming that the control was previously fractured from some prior event (one half of the fracture was dirty), mind you the car had no evidence of previous damage elsewhere. Can you imagine if this happened on the highway, he was lucky.
There are several cases of the control arm failing amongst VCA posts and replies. It is merely a reminder that even with stock parts, even though they passed durability testing, there are situations that can cause failure. Changing the design of components with an aftermarket component is a scary thought in my world, the amount of testing at an OEM is incredible. For instance, I remember when there were problem with a car (can't say due to confidentiality) during pre-production design, a rear suspension steel link was failing / cracking due to cornering fatigue, and the resolution was to add a bushing that had a bit more of compliance, and that solved the problem prior to going into production.
It's tough to communicate my advice rather than sounding like a ranting idiot regarding aftermarket companies, but I do care about safety.
Cheers,
Mike
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Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
I don't know, Mike, you sound like me advising to use diesel oil (tried and tried and tried and true) instead of Princely Violet Oil or Yellow Stripe Oil or something else that has a "racing" heritage. 
It's good advice and live the test of time.
It's good advice and live the test of time.
NI-KA
Enthusiast
I am thinking of switching back simply because of street safety. I can afford to loose a little track-ability in order to be safe. As a compromise I would consider some type of poly bushings however I don't believe anyone makes them.
Oh by the way the old stock ones taken off of my 1997 were disenegrating.
Oh by the way the old stock ones taken off of my 1997 were disenegrating.
