Calling oil/gas expert Tom.....

[dave6666]

I used to just go the the store and get the oil in the jug based on what the front label says. Now I'll have to start asking the Wal-Mart automotive department service specialist for complicated specifications on the products I'm choosing.



Thanks Tom.

I know too much now.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Now I'll have to start asking the Wal-Mart automotive department service specialist for complicated specifications on the products I'm choosing.

Please, I'm teary eyed. The reason Texaco sponsored race cars was to entice the store buyers, not you and me. I think more was spent on flying the buyers to the race weekend and hospitality as was on the teams themselves. So all they will know is who the driver is and what the ad budget is, not what's in the bottle...

 

[Mopar Boy]

Man Tom, I wish I had your knowledge or at least understood half of what you are typing!

 

[Mopar Boy]

Was thinking again.

Tom, why is it that we change our oil even if it does not have more than 1000 miles on it? For example:

Change oil. Drive the Viper in the fall. Did not get more than 1K miles on the oil, sits over the winter in garage (does not get below 50 deg), then come spring I change the oil.

Why? Is the oil not still good? What is this time period thingy the oil needs to be changed in? The oil is not dirty. Not broken down chemically (synthetic). Motor has not run so it is not like the motor has heat cycled many times to create condensation in the oil and not had time to evaporate the moisture.

Why?

Why?

Why?

 

[Madduc]

As for seasonal oil changes, it's better to change it BEFORE you store it. The combustion by-products can leave acids in the oil. So you don't want those acids attacking the bearings and other components over the storage period. Fresh oil prevents this from happening. Sure Tom will chime in and explain it better.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Was thinking again.

Tom, why is it that we change our oil even if it does not have more than 1000 miles on it? For example:

Change oil. Drive the Viper in the fall. Did not get more than 1K miles on the oil, sits over the winter in garage (does not get below 50 deg), then come spring I change the oil.

Why? Is the oil not still good? What is this time period thingy the oil needs to be changed in? The oil is not dirty. Not broken down chemically (synthetic). Motor has not run so it is not like the motor has heat cycled many times to create condensation in the oil and not had time to evaporate the moisture.

Why?

Why?

Why?

Answer: because you listen to TV ads and do things the way they always have been done... But now you're asking the right questions.

In the days of API SF oil and carburetors, frequent oil changes were needed to have the engine survive. Remember when an engine that went 100,000 miles was really, really good? The oil was marginal and the fuel dilution was high.

API SG was a major upgrade (and arguably the change from SG to SM is small compared to SF to SG improvement.) Also, fuel injection (and the electronic controls that came with it) has certainly made the oil's life better. How many black or blue belching cars do you see these days?

And, who pays for oil? Consumers! The car companies see frequent oil changes as free insurance - their warranty and durability perception get the benefit, while they pay nothing! Frequent oil changes also take the risk away from using mediocre oils; change it frequently enough and it doesn't matter what oil you use. Similar technology engines in Europe have 15,000 mile oil change recommendations because the process of selling a used car insists on dealer oil change records, so you have to use the OEM recommended oil. Dumb and untrustworthy Americans change oil with the cheapest stuff and if you have a leased car, maybe you don't ever change it. So the system in Europe has led to better and somewhat expensive oils, while the system in the US has led to commodity oils.

Back to your question. 1000 mile oil drains are silly and unnecessary. Even today's cheapo oils are better than API SF oils and 3000 mile drains are a no-brainer. Synthetic oil does not last longer in the use you are describing, it only survives high temperatures better. Protective additives (dispersants, emulsifiers, anti-corrosion, anti-oxidants) keep the oil from the damage caused by soot, dust, water, acids, and blowby that enter the oil. You get more additives in "Euro" oils because of the used car resale process and also because half the passenger fleet in Europe is diesel; an oil needs more additives to keep a diesel clean than a gasoline engine. So an oil with ACEA performance in addition to the API service are better. You've heard me many times about diesel oils; they have the highest amount of additives.

The current Mobil 0W-40 (not promoting, just an example) has Euro ACEA claims, diesel claims, API claims, and so should be good for 5000-7000 mile drains. I use mineral diesel engine oils and don't start thinking of a change until 5000 miles. For engines that are not used frequently, maybe you should go by gallons of fuel used. Change your oil every 400 gallons. The seasonal oil change started because of single grade oils; now with multigrade you use the same oil year-round. I wouldn't bother anymore to change before winter, and the additives will take care of anything that is in the oil already.

I think the Viper community is a bunch of gear heads and can recognize the technology improvement in engines over the last 20 years. You have to apply that to the oil also.

 

[Mopar Boy]

Ohh! Thanks Tom! Nice and detailed!

So, two questions then. What if it taken me 10 years to burn 400 gallons?

Question 2. For my daily driver Cummins Ram I use 15W40 non synthetic. Is that the same that could be used in a Viper or does it need to be synthetic diesel oil? This is just out of curiosity as I have 4 cases of 0w40 Mobil 1 in the garage, but still wondering.

And while we are on the diesel oil subject, on the project truck I am building (Dually Ram 5.9 Cummins, twin turbo, 600+ hp/ 1800 ft/lb, 24 speed stick ) I have 15W40 Amsoil Synthetic. I am also making use of their bypass (dual filter) filter set up. Question is, how often would the oil need to be changed under heavy load conditions? I see many ads that say 20, 30, even 40K miles but is that considered wise? For what the cost of an oil change is compared to a wrecked motor.....

Thanks again Sir!

 

[Madduc]

Thanks for the lesson on not needing to change the oil before storage Tom. One less hassle come fall.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Ohh! Thanks Tom! Nice and detailed!

So, two questions then. What if it taken me 10 years to burn 400 gallons?

Question 2. For my daily driver Cummins Ram I use 15W40 non synthetic. Is that the same that could be used in a Viper or does it need to be synthetic diesel oil? This is just out of curiosity as I have 4 cases of 0w40 Mobil 1 in the garage, but still wondering.

And while we are on the diesel oil subject, on the project truck I am building (Dually Ram 5.9 Cummins, twin turbo, 600+ hp/ 1800 ft/lb, 24 speed stick ) I have 15W40 Amsoil Synthetic. I am also making use of their bypass (dual filter) filter set up. Question is, how often would the oil need to be changed under heavy load conditions? I see many ads that say 20, 30, even 40K miles but is that considered wise? For what the cost of an oil change is compared to a wrecked motor.....

Thanks again Sir!

First, thank you for calling my long rambling on "detailed"!

Ans.1 Then you should loan your car to Jay Leno's garage and have someone drive it more often. Just kidding... sort of. I'd go 3-4 years and change.

Ans.2 That is what I use. Any name brand 15W40 mineral diesel you can find at Walmart. Dodge has a specification for Viper use which seems to dictate a synthetic, although I cannot find what the test requirements are. Somehow I think only oils that want to claim "Viper" even bother to conduct it. Diesel oils are tested to a far, far greater extent and considering the severity in the real world (80% load all day or 100% load 80% of the day) I think a diesel oil is good enough. The 0W40 oil you have will also be very good. I wouldn't run out to buy diesel oil if that were in the garage.

A bypass filter gets out the soot that is starting to agglomerate (make big soot balls from little soot particles) and other large particles. This is abrasive material and should be removed. However, if the oil is doing its job, the dispersants are keeping the soot particles from agglomerating anyway. (Think of the dish detergent TV ad where the black liquid drop falls into the petri dish and disperses into many smaller dots.) Technically some of these bypass filters are so large that changing them is partly an oil change and that alone accounts for a big part of the extended drain benefit. Also, if the regular filter does not trap the material, then you could argue the material is too small to have much impact. Finally, you said "project" truck so you are off the beaten path. I would start at the normal Cummins recommendation, send the used oil for %soot and viscosity, and extended the drain to keep soot under 2%-3% and viscosity within grade. Send a PM to GTSDean, I think he has a fleet and can tell you better what an acceptable soot level in the field should be. I am biased by the API certification tests, which are supposed to predict oil performance over the lifetime of the engine, and these tests have 6% and up soot.

 

[Mopar Boy]

Tom! You are the man!

Thank you again for the detailed (I preffer detailed! ) answer!

I did do a oil analysis for the truck. I will see if I can upload it!