Can Gen III secede from the VCA?

[SRTJOE]

I think that wannabe executive "vipah", and mini me "Cwaig 201 KM"; should have there own forum so they can make each other feel good. They can call it the improvement movement aka the ***** movement.
Mini me can talk about how smart he is and how he knows it all, while wannabe executive can make those hard executive decisions about managing mini me as he has branched out into Canada. I can see wannabe executive sitting at his desk now, "DC can you here me now?, if I keep saying this it must come true. It must because I am so important, well at least that's what mini me tells me!"
Please do us all a favor and get lost! You're boring!
I'd hate to think of what your mothers, boyfriends, and/or girlfriends have to go through while putting up with both of your bothersome,intrusive and (for mini me) crappy attitudes.


This is for wannabe executive:

 

[vipah]

I think that wannabe executive "vipah", and mini me "Cwaig 201 KM"; should have there own forum so they can make each other feel good. They can call it the improvement movement aka the ***** movement.
Mini me can talk about how smart he is and how he knows it all, while wannabe executive can make those hard executive decisions about managing mini me as he has branched out into Canada. I can see wannabe executive sitting at his desk now, "DC can you here me now?, if I keep saying this it must come true. It must because I am so important, well at least that's what mini me tells me!"
Please do us all a favor and get lost! You're boring!
I'd hate to think of what your mothers, boyfriends, and/or girlfriends have to go through while putting up with both of your bothersome,intrusive and (for mini me) crappy attitudes.


This is for wannabe executive:

Joey, it would appear that you have some serious penis envy issues. You may want to seek professional help for your inferiority complex.

Best of luck on the treatment.

 

[NOMERCY]

[/QUOTE]Are you really going to try and argue that the SRT maintains the performance advantage over the competition the GTS did? That is the dumbest thing I have heard yet.

[/QUOTE]

The problem with that theory is as HP increases for the competition there is less and less room for Viper to dominate. When the Viper had 450hp there was nothing even close. Even when the SRT was introduced with 500 there was still a good 100hp advantage. Now there are several car that produce 500 hp, even a few sedans come close to that mark, so what does Dodge do? In order to keep the dominance then you need to make a 600+hp car, and I agree that with this motor that could be done fairly easily. The big problem is that Viper people generally shun the latest techno advances and performance gizmos IE traction control AH aids. The car as it sits is almost too strong for the street and more power w/out some assistance will make this thing very hard to control for the average guy. I know, I know this car is not for the average guy but many will still buy it ... Any more power without some assistance makes this Viper good for the track but useless on the street ... such a beast does exist you know. It is called the Competition Coupe and needs a proven racer to buy it and is limited to the track ... as it should be.

So then Dodge makes this 600hp monster but needs to add some traction control aids to make it useable for those non track types, (believe it or not most Viper drivers don't track their cars). The cost will also have to go up. Then you get the peanut gallery ******** because only girls need traction control and it's too expensive blah blah blah. Could the styling be more agressive? Absolutely. I like the SRT as it is, the coupe looks kind of funky but a more agressive looking Viper would be great. Performance wise ... the bar has been raised and it will be much more difficult to stay on top. Even then it will not be by much.

You want a hard corps Viper? Get a track license and buy a Comp Coupe or mod the crap out of your GTS because as the HP wars escalate the HP advantage that Viper has WILL shrink. Viper makes 600 hp stock then GM makes a forced induction Vette with 600hp and the list goes on. Big power can be made by anyone if they want it bad enough. When the GTS was introduced there was no HP war ... there is now and everyone is playing.

 

[SRTJOE]

I think that wannabe executive "vipah", and mini me "Cwaig 201 KM"; should have there own forum so they can make each other feel good. They can call it the improvement movement aka the ***** movement.
Mini me can talk about how smart he is and how he knows it all, while wannabe executive can make those hard executive decisions about managing mini me as he has branched out into Canada. I can see wannabe executive sitting at his desk now, "DC can you here me now?, if I keep saying this it must come true. It must because I am so important, well at least that's what mini me tells me!"
Please do us all a favor and get lost! You're boring!
I'd hate to think of what your mothers, boyfriends, and/or girlfriends have to go through while putting up with both of your bothersome,intrusive and (for mini me) crappy attitudes.


This is for wannabe executive:

Joey, it would appear that you have some serious penis envy issues. You may want to seek professional help for your inferiority complex.

Best of luck on the treatment.

Sorry wannabe executive I didn't line them up like you. Here you go simpleton.

 

[V10 ICBM]

Vipah: re your comments:
"Hey, per the SRT Owner's rules you can not be critical of a car you do not own. Since you don't own a C6 Z06 you must retract this post, otherwise you are simply a hypocrite"

"Do you have trouble with Reading and Comprehension?

"Are you really going to try and argue that the SRT maintains the performance advantage over the competition the GTS did? That is the dumbest thing I have heard yet. "

Vipah - nothing personal, but I was responding to your post stating that the competition (stock I assume) basically anhilates the GTS and SRT-10. I repectfully disagree.

I agree that the SRT-10 was born at a time when there is a serious horsepower war - it is a different time and the competition is attempting to step up to the plate. Competition is good.

And I agree that DC has to make a choice of there is market for a 600hp car at 3000lbs at a vastly increased price - say $110USD.

As for performance advantage - it is no longer the same as it was say in 1997. BUT, while I do not drive an C6 Z06 - I can tell you from actual personal experience driving AGAINST the C5 - that the C5 car is flawed as a high performance car - as I outlined above, it has issues that you will never hear from someone who drives to the restaurant. You will also never hear complaints from the owners who do actually drive their car hard (4 hours wide open). you may hear from those who just sold their car. For example, where i drive, there were (I say "were" for emphasis) 2 Z06 oweners/drivers - one drove paxton super charged C5 and the other a stroked Z06 - both were sold after 18 moths - one guy bought a GT3 (at my insistance) and will be happy with it - the car is that good.
The other sold after 3 engine rebuilds - he is thinking about a GT3 or Comp coupe (if the new SRT-10 coupe was avail who knows if they may have gone for that).

The point is, after they sold their cars, they gushed about the issues I outlined. From a performance perspective, The stroked Z06 could pull on me at about 110 but I was even with the supercharged Z06. Also, nether would do more than 25 minutes on because of heat - and I already mention the 3 engine rebuilds ).

So my morla of my story is, yes some may have power and handling on paper - BUT bring them to the performance party (the track not the restaurant or armchair) and let see if they can do the do like a GTS or SRT can - if they can, I will be the first to give them my money.

Right now, at the price of an SRT-10, my alternative choice is an GT3 - only because I have seen what they can do reliably.

If you have personal experience, I 'd be more than happy to discuss. Your comments are welcome.

 

[vipah]

V10ICBM,

It seems that you agree that the SRT isn't on top like the GTS was in its day. Thanks for clarifying.

I want DC to build that 600hp Viper (they already have several 600hp Mercedes)as you suggest. There is a market.

Thanks for agreeing.

 

[vipah]

I think that wannabe executive "vipah", and mini me "Cwaig 201 KM"; should have there own forum so they can make each other feel good. They can call it the improvement movement aka the ***** movement.
Mini me can talk about how smart he is and how he knows it all, while wannabe executive can make those hard executive decisions about managing mini me as he has branched out into Canada. I can see wannabe executive sitting at his desk now, "DC can you here me now?, if I keep saying this it must come true. It must because I am so important, well at least that's what mini me tells me!"
Please do us all a favor and get lost! You're boring!
I'd hate to think of what your mothers, boyfriends, and/or girlfriends have to go through while putting up with both of your bothersome,intrusive and (for mini me) crappy attitudes.


This is for wannabe executive:

Joey, it would appear that you have some serious penis envy issues. You may want to seek professional help for your inferiority complex.

Best of luck on the treatment.

Sorry wannabe executive I didn't line them up like you. Here you go simpleton.

That is one serious inferiority complex. Back away from the computer and call for some help, FAST!!

 

[NOMERCY]

But those 600hp MBs weigh a ton and have all of the techno goodies. They also handle like pigs ... Viper drivers want a raw race car experience and with that much power and very little weight the car becomes nearly useless on the street for most drivers.

The ONLY way to stay near the top of the HP wars as a car owner, (it sounds like that is important to you), is to buy what you like and modify the crap out of it. Not many cars will take a Stroked TT Viper ... no matter what generation it is. It's called OVERKILL

If you are one of those stock vs. stock people then you will never win as STOCK is just not good enough any more. If you race your car, street or track, the guys you are running won't be stock. Like it or not ...

If you just want the title of KING OF THE HILL and never plan to race anyone then you need to be prepared to buy the next hot thing as soon as it comes out ... and bring your check book, this is going to be expensive.

 

[V10 ICBM]

Vipah - I do agree with you one issue - the Z06 is a threat - again on paper.

But, if GM is true to its past (a little wrinkle is Lutz), then the Z06 could be disappointing. But if it is reliable, see my last point below:

Also, since we are discussing next generation Vipers, I am not even sure 600hp is enough of a differnce today in the market - given we have F350 diesels and cummins 3500HD putting out 1000ft/lbs chipped. It really is hp inflation.

One key point that was raised by someone else earlier, we have a traction crisis. Street tires have reached their max for street use - so, manufacturers are forced to use traction and stability mangement.

So, then the question is, how much electronics do want to drive the car for you to have bragging rights of fastest or bestest car?

Generally, I think most were attracted to the no frills aspects of the Viper - YOU drive the car, not GM, not porsche, not DC, not mercedes. My hand controls the streering, the brakes, and the lead foot.

So, I say this, be careful what ask for...you might get it.
And then a chip will be doing you driving for you --and we will never drive the same again. In fact, your 99 GTS and the SRT will represent the best of a breed - and by the way, when you kick someone's *** in their Z06, remember, they weren't driving, Lutz was.

 

[Hirohawa]

So basically moded cars are unreliable. Great insight. Are you saying that Corvettes are the only unreliable modified cars? You drove against two moded Corvettes and based on this all Corvettes are unreliable? Driving against the C5 Has shown you it is flawed? - couldn't be the drivers could it? What happened to your first hand account of your fictional 2005 Z06?

Expalin to me how you are doing 4 hours wide open running in a street car? Does "wide open" mean you are going 30mph? How many laps are you running in these four hour stretches? How fast are you going. How many quarters does it take to play again? I can't think of a single stock car that can be driven for four hours straight on a real track without it getting toasted form the abuse (brakes, tires, etc.).

I drive my Z06 120 miles to Buttonwillow track for five 25 minute sessions hitting 130 on the back straight and then drive it home on the same stock street tires. Are you talking about trailered cars with slicks that are dedicated track cars?

As for performance advantage - it is no longer the same as it was say in 1997. BUT, while I do not drive an C6 Z06 - I can tell you from actual personal experience driving AGAINST the C5 - that the C5 car is flawed as a high performance car - as I outlined above, it has issues that you will never hear from someone who drives to the restaurant. You will also never hear complaints from the owners who do actually drive their car hard (4 hours wide open). you may hear from those who just sold their car. For example, where i drive, there were (I say "were" for emphasis) 2 Z06 oweners/drivers - one drove paxton super charged C5 and the other a stroked Z06 - both were sold after 18 moths - one guy bought a GT3 (at my insistance) and will be happy with it - the car is that good.
The other sold after 3 engine rebuilds - he is thinking about a GT3 or Comp coupe (if the new SRT-10 coupe was avail who knows if they may have gone for that).

The point is, after they sold their cars, they gushed about the issues I outlined. From a performance perspective, The stroked Z06 could pull on me at about 110 but I was even with the supercharged Z06. Also, nether would do more than 25 minutes on because of heat - and I already mention the 3 engine rebuilds ).

 

[madman]

I second V10_ICBM. Yesterday I was coming from VCA dinner and met a 911Turbo (or maybe GT3, that thing had spoilers all over). It was wet/dry. He spotted me and started to show up. I gave him a par on a short not so wet not so straight stretch. Then at lights he lined to turn while I was to go straight. He was waving at me from the window begging me to go with him and I just passed since I knew I could easily get wasted while he would be smiling with all 'tronics' he had in his car.

The point is that nowadays the cars are so fast that one can't use their full potential. Then it comes down to a thrill and I must say that I am able to go faster through certain spots with my wife's 04 M3cvt but I have tons more fun with Viper. It's like with my little s2k - I don't have to be the fastest kid on the block if I am having more fun in canyons doing 60Mph then tronics cars doing 90Mph.

 

[Jeff Torrey]

I think we are at a very critical point in the future of "Viper". Changes have to be made, cars are not moving. Dodge has to make upgrades with the Coupe to keep the car on top. The plant is shut down, workers were laid off. If the new Coupe doesn't hit its mark the company/car may die off. Things are pretty volatile right now, owners are nervous...people are shouting. We all hope someone is listening.

The division between owners isn't as wide as it may seem. It just means more to some people than others...or some people express themselves differently than others.

(Alice- If the Viperclub is not what you think it should/could be, I invite you to run for office.)

 

[V10 ICBM]

Hirohawa wrote:
"So basically moded cars are unreliable. Great insight. Are you saying that Corvettes are the only unreliable modified cars? You drove against two moded Corvettes and based on this all Corvettes are unreliable? Driving against the C5 Has shown you it is flawed? - couldn't be the drivers could it? What happened to your first hand account of your fictional 2005 Z06?

"Expalin to me how you are doing 4 hours wide open running in a street car? Does "wide open" mean you are going 30mph? How many laps are you running in these four hour stretches? How fast are you going. How many quarters does it take to play again? I can't think of a single stock car that can be driven for four hours straight on a real track without it getting toasted form the abuse (brakes, tires, etc.).

"I drive my Z06 120 miles to Buttonwillow track for five 25 minute sessions hitting 130 on the back straight and then drive it home on the same stock street tires. Are you talking about trailered cars with slicks that are dedicated track cars?


Hirohawa - let me clarify - most decent cars can hold together for 25 minute sessions - just not enough time for your Z06 red tranny light to go off - 25 minutes is OK for most cars.

Second - yes - these guys had already smoked their stock engines and also wanted more power. The guy with the paxton needed the power for the back straight to be competitive.

Third - if you doubt me - join a full track session - ie unlimited track time - keep tanking and filling up - I think you just drive to the pits a little early because your computer will tell you to do so or smoke your tranny due to heat issue i outlined in a pprior post in this thread.

Fourth - The drivers are very very good - if you know times at the various tracks, they claim 1:38-1:40 at Mosport. That should help you ascertain the issue.

Fifth - I am not saying the Z06 is a bad car - it isn't. It just does not hold up under serious track abuse - your viper will - but it will be far harder for you drive fast than your Z06. FYI - the stability control can never be turned off.

Sixth - I drive to and from the track on street tires. Then drive about 450 km at the track. I have friend with his 2002 ACR, he does 4.5 hours drive there, 450km at the track, and 4.5 hour drive back home the same day without a problem.

Seven - less and less C5 Z06 (stock and modified) come out anymore - enough said.

Eight - The new Z06 might lick these problems.

Nine -Each lap takes me between 1:41 and 1:42. I just about hit redline in 4th on back straight before entering turn 8 - that in my world is 220 km/hr - I think if I had more balls I could enter hotter - but I see heaven at that point. I enter Turn 8 at no faster than 140km.
I go through 4-4.5 tanks in one day.
You should try open lapping - I think you might like it.

If you research top speeds at Mosport - they are well known - So in direct answer to your question - yes, yes, a bone stock GTS can do this - more reliably than a dedicated track car that is trailered. You should be nicer to your Viper reputation ...it has earned it.

It is one solid hunk of machinery.

Hirohawa - next time you take you Z06 out, try going to open lapping event without sessions - ie "Open" - starts at 9am-lunch, 1:30-5pm - as much driving as you fit in.
Drive you car to get the maximum amount of laps in one day at your best pace. Do 4 tanks. I think you might like your Viper more after you experience it.

 

[DPViper]

Vipah - could you enlighten the rest of us as to the actual differences between a GTS and the SRT-10? Please exclude any reference to style - just performance numbers.
for example:

top speed
acceleration
quarter mile (t and speed)
lateral g
slalom

any track times at known tracks by same driver? eg Buttonwillow?

I think you will find that in the case of the SRT-10 - it is a better car than a GTS.....

Great question. Since no one chose to answer, I'll report what Motor Trend said:

0 to 60: SRT-10 3.9, GTS 4.0
1/4 mile: SRT-10 11.8 @ 123.6, GTS 12.2 @ 119
60 to 0: SRT-10 97 ft, GTS 129 ft

Even an executive can a trend.......

 

[vipah]

Vipah - could you enlighten the rest of us as to the actual differences between a GTS and the SRT-10? Please exclude any reference to style - just performance numbers.
for example:

top speed
acceleration
quarter mile (t and speed)
lateral g
slalom

any track times at known tracks by same driver? eg Buttonwillow?

I think you will find that in the case of the SRT-10 - it is a better car than a GTS.....

Great question. Since no one chose to answer, I'll report what Motor Trend said:

0 to 60: SRT-10 3.9, GTS 4.0
1/4 mile: SRT-10 11.8 @ 123.6, GTS 12.2 @ 119
60 to 0: SRT-10 97 ft, GTS 129 ft

Even an executive can a trend.......

I see you have comprehension issues as well. The discussion isn't GTS vs SRT you ******. Its about the performance margin the cars had when introduced. If you don't understand this please ask you mommy to explain it.

 

[SRT10]

QUOTE BY VIPAH

If you don't understand this please ask mommy to explain it.

OK!

Mommy, who is Vipah?

He is a STUPID very FAT TROLL!

Thank you Mommy!

You must be registered for see images

 

[vipah]

QUOTE BY VIPAH

If you don't understand this please ask mommy to explain it.

OK!

Mommy, who is Vipah?

He is a STUPID very FAT TROLL!

Thank you Mommy!

You must be registered for see images

It seems that your mommy is a stupid as you. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. LMAO

 

[DPViper]

It seems that your mommy is a stupid as you. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. LMAO




[/QUOTE]

Vipah: In many of your responses, you mention "mommy". Do you still live at home?

 

[vipah]

It seems that your mommy is a stupid as you. I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. LMAO

Vipah: In many of your responses, you mention "mommy". Do you still live at home?

[/QUOTE]

Actually I am mentioning your mommy. If your reading comprehension was better you would have understood that. Now go ask your mommy to explain this to you.

I'm just trying to help you out and figured you at least knew who your mommy was. Perhaps I am still using words too big for you to understand, but even my 3 year old neice knows who mommy is. Too bad you don't.

 

[mit]

NoMercy,

You have valid points that I had not considered previously. There are drivability issues with 600 horsepower and no traction control. It may not be feasible for DC to give the Viper a 100 horsepower advantage over everyone else given that the competition is now at 500 horsepower as opposed to 350 in 1996. 450 raw horsepower is a lot different than 600 raw horsepower. When I say raw I mean no electronics to keep it on the ground.

I am not sure where that puts the future of the Viper though.

Mit

 

[NOMERCY]

Thanks!

My position is simple ... Viper has always been about raw power. There is veeery little technology in these cars and simple brute power can only go so far.

 

[DPViper]

[/QUOTE]

Actually I am mentioning your mommy. If your reading comprehension was better you would have understood that. Now go ask your mommy to explain this to you.

I'm just trying to help you out and figured you at least knew who your mommy was. Perhaps I am still using words too big for you to understand, but even my 3 year old neice knows who mommy is. Too bad you don't.




[/QUOTE]

Very nice....