Congratulations Whiners!

gtsviper

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Congratulations to all you Whiners out there. You whined loud enough to make the cover of this week's AutoWeek. I'm sure Dodge and DC will appreciate all the positive press and will be looking for opportunities to reward the owners for their support. For all you whiners who think volume and frequency will result in the changes you want, keep up the good work. If PVO is reading this, remember that the naysayers don't speak for everyone.
Signed, the Silent Majority?
 

DEVILDOG

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Have not gotten mine yet, however, can't wait now! When DC gets concerned enough to reply to the seatbelt issue ( see RT/10 & GTS board ) and the two safety recalls on the steering rack and diff mounting then I'll worry about what I can do for them in promoting the SRT-10. DC it's still not too late to take care of your original customer base!
NO FLAME INTENDED....JUST OBSERVATION
smile.gif
 

King GTS

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gtsviper:
Congratulations to all you Whiners out there. You whined loud enough to make the cover of this week's AutoWeek. I'm sure Dodge and DC will appreciate all the positive press and will be looking for opportunities to reward the owners for their support. For all you whiners who think volume and frequency will result in the changes you want, keep up the good work. If PVO is reading this, remember that the naysayers don't speak for everyone.
Signed, the Silent Majority?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I DON'T SUBSCRIBE TO AUTO WEEK. CAN YOU PLEASE LET ME IN ON WHAT'S GOING ON? I'm dying over here now!
 

MES

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So what does AutoWeek have to say? You don't make the cover of AutoWeek from a few whiners on a Viper board, you make the cover of AutoWeek by millions of whiners everywhere.

signed the loud whining MAJORITY

a flame was intended... this was not just an observation
laugh.gif
 

King GTS

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig 201 MPH:
someone scan the cover and the story PLEASE

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Details: A true convertible with a manual folding top, the new Viper’s composite body panels hang from a steel spaceframe.
It’s the most iconic American car of its era, arguably the only car made in Detroit since the dark days of the 1970s that’s worth veneration. But it’s been more than 10 years since the first production model was hatched, and the Viper is now the oldest product in the Mopar lineup. If it were any other car, a complete redesign would be long overdue.

The Viper is myth in aluminum, composite and steel. We’ve heard the tale of its genesis so many times the story has become folklore akin to that of the Pontiac GTO or even the Shelby Cobra. Ask yourself what Bob Lutz would be doing today if this car had never come to be.
2003 DODGE VIPER PHOTO GALLERY

Consider this: Would the Germans have so grossly overpaid for Chrysler if the “merger of equals” hadn’t given them access to a fleet of Vipers? Perhaps, but who could blame them if this was indeed their underlying motive? Certainly the car itself does not promote rational behavior.


Viper owners describe themselves as members of a cult. It is not uncommon for one of them to own two or more of these V10-powered beasts, and at the very least the true Viper enthusiast is a serial purchaser. An early roadster begets a coupe, which leads to a later roadster. Repeated attendance at track days demands a purpose-built race car, and thus the garage gets infested with snakes.

So there is no shortage of enthusiasm for the 14,000 Vipers built over the past decade, for their style, for their performance. We fight over who gets the car when one comes through our office, and people at gas stations still ask for a ride. But the laws of the car business say the Viper needs to be redesigned. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” does not apply.


The chassis employs unequal-length upper and lower aluminum A-arms, coil-over shocks and a rear antiroll bar. Weight is 3357 pounds with a 50/50 distribution.

Thus, welcome the new Viper. It is too late to do anything about it, save ordering a 2002 GTS Final Edition, for Viper as we’ve known it is history. The new car will debut as a 2003 model, dubbed “SRT-10,” a convertible with dramatically different lines and a manual fold-down top. Cars will be delivered starting this fall, with current Viper owners lucky enough to have placed their orders scooping up the first model year’s production; the new Viper is clearly not received like New Coke.

But despite this sales success, a maelstrom has been brewing among its enthusiasts since Dodge first showed the car at the 2001 Detroit auto show. The eye of the storm: The new car just doesn’t look right.

“It’s not love at first sight,” admits Adel Elsayed, New Jersey Viper Club president and owner of four Vipers, with whom we spoke during a lapping session that he’d organized at Pocono Raceway. “When people saw the Viper concept in 1989, everybody said, ‘I want this car.’ The same [was true] with the coupe when it came out in ’96. The new Viper, a lot of people look at it and say, ‘Yeah, maybe.’ It does not leave that first impression.”

What could?

Osamu Shikado, the 47-year-old design manager of DaimlerChrysler’s Advance Packaging Studio, penned the new car. Shikado spent 14 years at Toyota in Japan before coming to Chrysler in 1994. Among his design credits are the 1983 Toyota Corolla, the 1990 Toyota Camry, the 1998 Chrysler Chronos concept and the 1999 Chrysler Citadel concept. To be fair to Shikado, his Viper is stunning. It’s aggressive and has all the muscular cues of the original. But it’s different and the Viper community has much invested in the original car. Letting it go will not be easy.

Joseph Houss is the national vice president of the Viper Club of America. He gushes when asked what he thinks of the new Viper: “I love the new style. I like change. I like different. This is the most exciting thing that’s happened to the Viper community. When they built this car, they listened to what the Viper owners wanted.”

Houss cites engineering leaps, things like the 7 percent improvement in the aerodynamics of the new convertible over the outgoing roadster. He talks about the motor, a stroker version of the current V10 with preliminary output of 500 hp at 5600 rpm and 500 lb-ft of torque at 4600 rpm. Other Viper owners are pleased the new car weighs less, due in part to a cast magnesium instrument panel support, aluminum shocks, carbon fiber fender supports, a conventional hood and fender design and the use of run-flat tires.


A revised V10 displaces 505 cubes and will make at least 500 hp and 500 lb-ft of torque; it’s mated to the carryover six-speed manual.

But Houss acknowledges the styling is controversial: “There are a good percentage of people who would have rather seen an existing coupe, maybe a little lower, a little more aerodynamic, but not a complete change. What may be the reason some people are frowning on the new body style is that everybody took it for granted that the new car would still look essentially the same.”

The 2003 Viper is no J Mays-style re-scale. Compared to the 2002 model, the new car is nine inches wider—and looks it. While the wheelbase is stretched 2.6 inches, the overall length shrinks by an inch, making the car seem more square. Without the roadster’s sport bar or the coupe’s roof, the convertible looks flat and chiseled and not nearly as curvaceous as the car it replaces.

“Is the current shape ****?” Houss asks. “Absolutely. Is it the sexiest shape that’s come out of Detroit in a long time? Probably. But how long can you go on without trying something new?” We tried out the new Viper, in pre-production guise, on a few laps of an autocross course. The 2003 Viper delivers more of everything.

More power—thanks to 505 cubic inches and a new intake manifold. More grip—from Michelin 275/35ZR-18 fronts and 345/30ZR-19 rears, a viscous limited-slip differential and ground effects that run from the rear of the engine back to the rear fascia. And more brakes—a Brembo system with dual-opposing piston, fixed front and rear calipers with 14-inch rotors. Team Viper claims the new car will go 0 to 60 mph in less than four seconds, 0 to 100 in less than 10 and do 0 to 100 to 0 in less than 13.2.

The car is also more of a delight to the senses: It doesn’t stink like fiberglass, the driver’s footwell carries a dead pedal and is less cramped, the convertible body style dramatically improves visibility and the roar of the side exhaust pipes is back. Other notable creature comforts include a new climate control system that actually works, seatbelts that pull from the outside shoulder and a 500-watt sound system that’s audible with the top down at 100 mph.

If you’re thinking the Viper has had some rough edges polished, you’re on the right track. For those who worry that a kinder, gentler Viper and its concessions to better functionality betray the spirit of the original, know the new Viper is still crude and drastic—no array of microprocessors inject rational behavior into driving beyond antilock braking.

There will always be a fringe element who wish for a more brutal car; however, the improvements to the Viper are welcome, not only for making it both literally and figuratively more accessible, but for the potential to improve its overall quality. Yes, the Viper has lost its clamshell nose in favor of a separate hood and fenders, but talk to any Viper owner who’s had to replace the front end—at the cost of a Ford Focus—and the logic behind the change becomes understandable. DaimlerChrysler claims the new hood and other aspects of the styling will also make it easier to build the car to a higher level of fit-and-finish.


A new intake manifold has a central dual-plenum design with shorter runners and a single throttle body. Side exhaust pipes are back, but the clamshell hood is history.

Yet still, the new Viper looks the betrayal of an icon. It represents the inevitable demise of a car that was an instant classic and hasn’t aged a bit since that auto show car of 1989. For some, no amount of refinement or additional power can make up for that. Larry Dixon is one of the members of the New Jersey Viper Club, someone who bought his Viper for the styling, first and foremost. He’s not interested in the new Viper, not at all.

“The car is still unique, but it’s not as good as it was, the styling anyway,” he says. “I don’t care for the square lines—it’s not as rounded as the old Viper was. It just doesn’t look as good. It looks like a Corvette.” Dixon understands the logic behind the redesign, but it’s an emotional thing, this love of cars. It’s the classic battle of the head and the heart.

“I see the new car as an evolution of the older one,” Elsayed says. “Some people will like it, some won’t. The new car has lines that are not representative of the original Viper, but it has other attributes like a bigger motor and more horsepower that Viper owners will appreciate. And I think the styling is going to grow on you.”

Houss also points out that the new car will “make sure there aren’t 10,000 Viper owners upset when the value of their cars goes down because the new body style is just so inspiring that everybody has to get rid of the old ones. We’ve got a lot of guys [in the Viper Club] who’d like to keep their current car and get a new Viper.” He can’t wait for the delivery of his 2003.

And despite Elsayed’s lukewarm reaction to the new design, he was among the many who have also placed an order for the new car. “I am a Viper fan,” he says, proving that a reputation 10 years in the making has a value at least as important as **** lines.

And whatever it looks like, the new car is still a Viper.




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Final GTS: Well, with the credentials of the designer, it's now wonder...LOL. And about what Joseph Houss said, sorry bud, but I seriously doubt there is enough people out there that want the SRT bad enough to cause a drop in the Vipers value that will last more than a month or two... as of recent, the supply of current Vipers is cut off, which means the people that want them, and like them, cant get them anymore. That will keep values high. I see the SRT is a stripped down cheapened up replacement with a few racing goodies thrown on it in order to hide the fact that is IS stripped down and cheapened up. The "bean Counters" are obviously running the show now...
 

GTS Dean

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The following excerpt came from this AutoWeek Story

Read on down to the part that starts: "If you like it, credit Osam Shikado, ..."

This is they guy who deserves the blame. He's quite obviously no Tom Gale. Frankly I didn't care much for the harsh, slashy look of the comp coupe when it came out. However, a pure-D racecar gets some slack for styling, IMO.

For those of you who are non-subscribers, check AutoWeek Online next week to see this week's stories. I still have 2-4 days to wait until I get my copy via packmule delivery. I often have wondered where some of the subject matter comes from on this board. Then several days later, my AW arrives and it's too late to jump in.
 

MES

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Osamu Shikado, the 47-year-old design manager of DaimlerChrysler?s Advance Packaging Studio, penned the new car. Shikado spent 14 years at Toyota in Japan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

B-I-N-G-O that's why the SRT/10 looks like a S2000 it was designed by a guy that worked for 14 yes, fourteen long years at a Japanese car maker. OMG what was Chrysler thinking? choosing a guy that designed econoboxes for 14 years to restyled a "muscle car" gee no wonder it don't look so muscular anymore
frown.gif
 

King GTS

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MES:

B-I-N-G-O that's why the SRT/10 looks like a S2000 it was designed by a guy that worked for 14 yes, fourteen long years at a Japanese car maker. OMG what was Chrysler thinking? choosing a guy that designed econoboxes for 14 years to restyled a "muscle car" gee no wonder it don't look so muscular anymore
frown.gif


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I CAN'T BELIVE THIS!!!!!!! I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!!
pissed.gif
pissed.gif


CAN YOU GUY'S BELIEVE THIS CRAP!!!!!! HOW DARE THEY!!!
 

King GTS

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PER AUTO WEEK, AND I QUOTE!!!!


"The new top was done in conjunction with Dura, the same company that did the top on the Prowler. It stows under a solid rear decklid that clamshells backward for access. The top is manual, and therefore lightweight, and fastens onto the windshield header with one clamp in the middle. <u>WHEN THE TOP IS UP IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A JAG CONVERTIBLE. WHEN IT'S STOWED, FROM THE REAR THREE-QUARTER VIEW, IT LOOKS LIKE A STRETCHED HONDA S2000. FROM A SHARPER REAR THREE-QUARTER VIEW, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A CORVETTE L88....</u>


I never thought I'd EVER say this. EVER! But with these on the road, I might just be ashamed to even be in my current Viper!!! Why would I ever want to support such a Company! WOW! And I thought I loved the Viper more than ANYBODY! I just don't know anymore.
 

Joseph Houss

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Mr Lesser, I believe you read my quote wrong:

"Houss also points out that the new car will “make sure there aren’t 10,000 Viper owners upset when the value of their cars goes down because the new body style is just so inspiring that everybody has to get rid of the old ones. We’ve got a lot of guys [in the Viper Club] who’d like to keep their current car and get a new Viper.” He can’t wait for the delivery of his 2003."

Clearly, I was saying that the change will allow current generation owners NOT to witness depreciation.

Yours Truly,
Bud
 

Joseph Houss

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Some additional comments,

This editorial was compiled during our NJ region Pocono event by none other than Mr Sabatini himself, a highly regarded writer/editor on Autoweek's staff. He was respectful and interested in all that he requested comments from.

My personal impression was that when he entered the track he was NOT necessarily a fan of the newer generation car, but I believe, through the enthusiasm of our attendees at the event, he learned quite a bit about our "Viper Nation", and he was very proud of the hat he was wearing suggesting his support for "grass roots" racing.

Definitely a car guy!
 

shifter

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If the board was drowned by the 'silent majority' not being so silent, then I'll bet the story would have been different. Autoweek likely would have still called it a stretched S2000, but added "to the delight of the current VCA members". I guess only the pessimists are the vocal ones??? Whiners forum, but no supporters forum? We should start one and see how many different pro SRT posts it gets.

Seems whiner's opinions are popular ones. Just hope it has some effect at DCX - yeah right. Sales and the media are their only motivators, not the current VCA. Anyone have any statistics on new owners vs repeat buyers?
 

Viper Specialty

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Mr. Houss- Sorry about that, I interpreted what you stated incorrectly. The statement is not very clear and depending on how you read it it can be taken as a serious or a sarcastic statement.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Final GTS:

The 2003 Viper is no J Mays-style re-scale. Compared to the 2002 model, the new car is nine inches wider—and looks it. While the wheelbase is stretched 2.6 inches, the overall length shrinks by an inch, making the car seem more square.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where are they getting these dimensions from?! 9 inches wider?! I thought that was discounted a while ago? And I thought the car was a couple inches longer, not shorter?!
 

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They report that the SRT is 9 INCHES WIDER than the GenII, is that true?

"WHEN THE TOP IS UP IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A JAG CONVERTIBLE. WHEN IT'S STOWED, FROM THE REAR THREE-QUARTER VIEW, IT LOOKS LIKE A STRETCHED HONDA S2000. FROM A SHARPER REAR THREE-QUARTER VIEW, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A CORVETTE L88...."

Wow, I don't mean any disrespect to any of those fine cars, but this commentary really bothers me. I can picture myself filling up at a gas-n-sip & some guy asking, "hey, is that the new honda or jag?"
Talk about changing the image. I'd have to say that considering the credentials of the designer (really surprises me, and explains a lot) and the first real comments of the press here, that DC is targeting a WAY different crowd with this car. Funny, for the first time I feel a wave of pessimism that I may not be in that "new crowd". Then what? I need a drink, is it lunch time yet.

Dave.
 

Joseph Houss

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Would you please stop calling me Mr Houss, it's making me feel way too old!!!!

Yours truly,
Joe!!!!!
 

MES

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"Houss also points out that the new car will ?make sure there aren?t 10,000 Viper owners upset when the value of their cars goes down because the new body style is just so inspiring that everybody has to get rid of the old ones. We?ve got a lot of guys [in the Viper Club] who?d like to keep their current car and get a new Viper.? He can?t wait for the delivery of his 2003."

Clearly, I was saying that the change will allow current generation owners NOT to witness depreciation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So your saying we should be thankful the new Viper looks not-so-good because that will keep the value of the older cars high, because not as many people will trade them in for the new model? What kind of logic is that? Hmmm lets see maybe the new Corvette can be designed to look like a GEO Metro that way current Vette owners will be so repulsed by the new Vette that they will not trade their old car away, makes no sense
confused.gif
 

Joseph Houss

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MES,

Give me a break! You'll notice I didn't insinuate (nor do I think) that the new car isn't great looking! What I said was the difference is so dramatic that there will be many that might want to keep both or might opt for holding on to their "classic" Viper.

I believe Lutz was the one that said you have to have the guts to build a car that is extreme enough to have both those that love and those that hate a style.
 

onerareviper

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Joe,

Your absolutely right about quoting Lutz 'loving or hating' styling. Problem is, most people think the new 2003 model styling is so-so. Most people don't HATE or LOVE the styling, IMHO. I think most people are between 4-8 on the scale of (1 outta 10). Sure, many people think it doesn't look as good as the Gen II, but most agree it is at least decent looking. On the other hand, I haven't heard many post like, "WOW. I JUST SAW THE NEW 2003 VIPER AND MY JAW DROPPED WIDE OPEN....". This was a common reaction with the Gen I and Gen II. I saw people druel at car shows... Hate to say it, but the GT40 created that type of reaction in Detroit this year. People stood and stared at the car for 15+ minutes. Trust me, no one was doing this at the SRT10. Most people looked it over once or twice, and kept walking. That is at least what I noticed.

I do feel the Comp. Coupe got the same reaction as the Gen I and Gen II. I know I was drueling. That is one bad MF'er. I believe it would of stole the thunder from the GT40 if it was displayed at Detroit this year. Now give us a street legal version ASAP!!!!! I THINK THIS WOULD MAKE 99% OF THE VIPER NATION VERY, VERY HAPPY!!!!

Thanks for reading my .02....
 

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This article actually got my blood boiling and made me steaming mad as I read that some egg-head who designed a COROLLA and a CAMRY was designing the replacement to my iconic supercar. A corolla is nothing more than a piece of $h1? that screams "I have no taste!". How could DC hire such a character to design the VIPER of all things? This explains the foolishly bland new looks and the copycat styling. I agree with Trey in that I am now somewhat ashamed of even my current viper with that new abomination driving around in a few months. Makes me reconsider my Viper. Maybe I should sell it and get a Cobra Replica. All I have to say is that we have been reduced to a honda/jag/corvette/stratus/camaro.....whatever....its just junk. I bought my Viper after they had released pictures of the replacement. I was immediately sure that I wouldnt regret my decision when the new car came out. I knew the Gen II looked 1000000% better. But i never thought the new viper would make me ashamed. DC you made a BIG MISTAKE with this car.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph Houss:
Would you please stop calling me Mr Houss, it's making me feel way too old!!!!

Yours truly,
Joe!!!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, how about we call you "Old Joe" ?

...just kidding....
 

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I wonder if Dodge had decided to release the Comp Coup in
street form if alot of this would not be happening....

Dodge did screw this pooch... There are more GTS Coup fans
than there will ever be SRT-10 convertable fans. What did
Dodge expect....

So I'm a coup fan and they want me to buy the convertable???
Catch on DODGE... where's my Comp Coup?? That is the car
that could have had a chance at updating the existing Viper...

There's no way that the SRT-10 is any way represented to be
an update to my GTS. Sorry....

My thoughts at this point are... Dodge has just added a third
car to the Viper ranks... we now have a convertable, roadster
and GTS Coup.

As to declining values of the existing Vipers. Nearly everyone
I talk to about Vipers and cars in general do not even realize
that this is the last year for the roadster and GTS. When I'm
out and about I get many many people tell me how they are going
to purchase a Viper one of these days. Well they may buy one
but most likely it will be a discontinued used one. A used one
that will become harder and harder for me to replace when the
time comes. The values may dip for a short while. When all the
existing cars are no longer in the dealers show room, then we
will see about the values.
 

MichaelP

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Joe, your quote was easily understood, and I did not sense any sarcasm in it.

I am not suprised it was designed by a Japanese designer. I am rather pleased it looks so much different it just makes the Gen I and Gen II cars that much more shocking.

Same thing happened when Corvette changed their design. But they changed it to sell more and appeal to the masses. Well as was said before I don't think the masses can afford it and MOST of the current Viper owners don't want it instead of the car they now have.

WHINE WHINE WHINE&gt;

Oh yea so if the silent majority is SO silent then how the hell do you know what they think ???
 
OP
OP
G

gtsviper

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"Oh yea so if the silent majority is SO silent then how the hell do you know what they think ???"


Good point! I would imagine the whiners have as much interest in my opinion as the silent majority does theirs! The forum used to be a place to get information and provide technical ideas about the Vipers. Now it seems more of a soapbox and place for people to post pictures of their kid's (hopefully thier kid's) toys and slam DC. What a waste of bandwidth!
 

Mike Brunton

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dixter:
Dodge did screw this pooch... There are more GTS Coup fans
than there will ever be SRT-10 convertable fans. What did
Dodge expect....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that is your opinion, and based on what data? I agree that "the masses" love the GTS, based on the reaction I got driving it around, but lets face it, "the masses" ain't gonna be forking over $80k to buy this car. I got tons of thumbs up from kids, young males, but never really had many folks in their 40's and 50's give too much attention; and guess what the target market for Vipers is? It's not kids and young males. I would be willing to be that DC has done a LOT of market research on the SRT and is confident that it will appeal more to their intended market than the GTS does. What you don't seem to get is that the current Viper market is apparently NOT the SRT market. Dodge screwed the pooch in YOUR EYES, but guess what - your eyes are NOT the ones DC is vying for.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
There's no way that the SRT-10 is any way represented to be
an update to my GTS. Sorry....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Not sure what you mean - they can represent it however they want. Fact is that the SRT is the next generation Viper. GenI and GenII are the older models, SRT is the newer one. Are you making some sort of point that the SRT is so offensive to you that you refuse to consider it part of the Viper family? Seems like kind of a closed-minded attitude to me. If the SRT is so bad, is not a Viper, etc, etc, etc, then aren't you happy that you own a piece of history that is destined to go up in value? Or aren't you confident of that?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
My thoughts at this point are... Dodge has just added a third
car to the Viper ranks... we now have a convertable, roadster
and GTS Coup.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Uhh, thats what they have said all along... that this was the "3rd chapter" in the book of Viper, not the continuation of Chapter 1 or Chapter 2.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As to declining values of the existing Vipers. Nearly everyone
I talk to about Vipers and cars in general do not even realize
that this is the last year for the roadster and GTS. When I'm
out and about I get many many people tell me how they are going
to purchase a Viper one of these days. Well they may buy one
but most likely it will be a discontinued used one. A used one
that will become harder and harder for me to replace when the
time comes. The values may dip for a short while. When all the
existing cars are no longer in the dealers show room, then we
will see about the values.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All these people that are "gonna get a Viper some day" - how many actually do vs. how many are dreaming? If everyone that was "gonna buy a Viper" was seriously going to get one, sales would be through the roof from where they were in '92 - but that ain't happening. More likely, everyone just says that. Maybe everyone DOES want a Viper, well, they ain't buying them very much in '02, so I guess if DC wants to attract the folks with the $$'s to buy the car, they need to change something.

The thing that is MOST frustrating to me about this whole argument is that the folks that are so upset about how the SRT looks seem to completely ignore the economics of the situation. Jon McGuire said it very well, in that DC is looking to turn a profit from the SRT, hence the more mainstram (bland, ugly, S2000ish, call it whatever makes you happy) styling. Given that DC needs to turn a profit on this car, and given that the existing Viper isn't selling very well, what do you expect them to do? Make a car that WE all like, and have sales taper off again and them lose more money? What, as a favor to us out of the kindness of their heart? Please! They need to make $$'s on this car. That means that they changed the direction of the car AT THE LOSS OF SOME OF YOUR INTERST IN IT! Accept that and you will be happier. Did DC screw you? well, if you consider them changing the Viper to make $$'s rather than killing it "screwing" you, then yeah they screwed you. Whatcha going to do about it? Complain forever and say DC are idiots and the car is so ugly, and it will be a flop, and blah blah blah, or are you going to accept that it IS a Viper and there's nothing you can do about it, or are you going to sell your Viper out of disgust and leave the club forever, or are you going to not personally like the new Viper, but not complain forever?

You gotta do one of those things... the folks that like it are eventually going to tire of hearing how uuugggllllyyy it is and how DC is so sstttuuuuuuuuupid and how they are screeewwwwing all of us... waaah waaaah waaaaaaah.

At least some folks have interesting viewopoints that don't line up with mine... I just get sick of reading the comments from those that DON'T GET IT. IT's about $$'s.... got it?
 

Snakester

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I like the new SRT-10. There, I said it.
I prefer having a full convertible, and mechanically the SRT-10 is improved in many ways.

Sure, the current Vipers are more stylish, and outrageous looking, but if you set the upcoming SRT-10 next to the current C5 Corvette it would look positively wild.

It's just that the current Viper was not designed to be practical, it was designed to be over-the-top like the GT-40.

The redesign reminds me of the 240Z which looked great in it's original incarnation, but grew awkward as the 260Z, and then looked pretty good in 280ZX Turbo form, but then looked plain and chunky when the wedge/slab-like redesign came out, and then they got the style right again with the newer ('90-96) version.

Even though I think that the current design is much more classic/timeless than the SRT-10, I don't think that the new design will do anything but good for the current Vipers.

People who like the current Viper design better will keep their cars, and the fact that there are no more being built (and limited production over the years) will keep the resale value high.

And the SRT-10 will move the Viper ahead in performance over most of the current exotic cars. And the more practical (conventional) SRT-10 design will impress the less ******** buyers who found the current Vipers too outrageous for the street.

Many people wouldn't consider the original R/T10 because it was too crude with no A/C and soft windows, but when those amenities came out in the GTS Dodge opened a larger market.

I think that the SRT-10 will change the demographics of Viper owners, and then when the coupe version of the car comes out, the more rakish look will bring around many of the current GTS owners.

Personally, even though I like the current Viper design better, I can see myself owning an SRT-10 someday because I love convertible supercars.

-Dean.
 

Viper Specialty

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I have a suggestion that will solve ALL problems, and a comment as well.

First, my suggestion is this: Buy the Viper style that YOU like, and ONLY buy the car you like for it's STYLE. Performance can ALWAYS be added later. just send your Viper out to DLM or Lingenfelter or whatever, and any Viper can be made to outperform the other...its all based on your wallet. The only thing not easily changed is the cars STYLE, so go for that FIRST!!!

Comment: Newer is not ALWAYS Best. And BEST is in the eye of the beholder.

I have a Final on order, if I really wanted to, I could hold out on a SRT, but, thats not what *I* want.
 

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