Cracked My Can .... Oil Filter Can That is .... Pics

[ROCKET62]

OK, so there's been a lot of discussion lately regarding changing the oil, type of oil/filter, and frequency of change, so I figured I would crack open my oil filter to see what it's captured. I've got way too much time on my hand and I do have a taste for sardines after the way I peeled open the filter .

Specifics - just turned 10,000 miles on my 2005 SRT - 3rd oil change. About 3500 miles on Mobil 1 0-40 oil, Mopar Viper 5037836 AA filter, normal driving including 2 autocrosses, 1300 mile distance trip, and 1 or 2 high speed spirited runs (on a closed private track of course .) Significant mods - K&N filters, single blade throttle body, DC Perf reflash, 170 thermostat (oil and coolant temp rarely exceed 180), mopar street exhaust with 1 cat removed.

Not sure if I was expecting more stuff or less - so I'll let all of you experts (hopefully Tom will chime in) tell me what you think. Nothing really that significant, but the pics do show what I would term 200 grit pebbles captured by the filter.

 

[supersnake]

I would cut about 6 pleats out of your filter and put them in a vice and squezze the oil out of the paper and then you will see what you have a lot better, Hard to see with the dirty oil.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

It's hard to tell from pictures, but I'll "chime" anyway. And I'm not picking on you, either.

Back in the days of carburetors, the intake manifold sat in the "V" of the engine and an exhaust cross over port ran from left to right bank to warm up the area under the carburetor. When cold carbureted engines have the choke on, there is a lot of liquid fuel and the exhaust heat underneath would help vaporize it, improving driveability while warming up. Of course, this heat was hard to turn off, so colder thermostats limited the amount of heat the manifold received, and the intake charge was cooler, denser, and the engine produced more power.

Fast forward to fuel injected, raised intake manifolds of today. There is no exhaust cross over (cross under?) and often there is no coolant cross over as part of the intake manifold. The fuel is accurately delivered to each cylinder by an injector. In fact, unlike old engines, the air is pulled from the cold outside air. The intake air is not heated until the short run throught the cylinder head.

I think some people still like colder thermostats because of the carbureted-colder-more power idea. Or maybe the coolant runs so cold the PCM is fooled into running richer. I mildly challenge the idea that a cold thermostat in a modern (Viper, modern?) engine produces nearly as much benefit as in carbureted engines.

Why did tell this tale? Because if the oil doesn't reach an average temperature of 212F, it won't boil off the condensed water from humid days, won't boil off the water which is a by-product of combustion, and won't boil off the fuel that inevitably dilutes the oil a little bit. The fuel uses up the anti-oxidant protection (because fuel is easy to oxidize, but the oil is trying to prevent it) and the water ties up some of the dispersant characteristics. There is actually a significant engine test as part of the API category called the Sequence V (and we are up to version G) that was modeled after "Aunt Minnie" driving. The field problem was fuel dilution, water collection, and oil not warming up because Aunt Minnie only drove once a week a short distance to church. The result was sludge build-up that blocked drainback holes and (in this ultra-severe, short duration test) making the entire oil charge turn into black jello.

So back to Rocket's car. If the oil was in the engine from 6,666 to 10,000 miles, that is a little short and yet the oil looks a little dark. That's not bad, because the oil will turn dark as it carries around precursors to sludge and varnish. Maybe that's what those little black lumps are. The oil is doing its job. But in a perfect world if you still want the coolant at 170F, fine, but it would be better for the oil to operate above 212F .

 

[Martin]

Does the stuff in the filter feel very solid like sand or metal? It's hard to say from the pictures what's going on, but none of that stuff looks good to me. I haven't seen much, if anything, in the filters that I've cut open.

Have you done an oil analysis on the car? It would be good to see if you have any silicon (bad air filter) or excess metals in the oil. That stuff could all be sludge related, but it wouldn't hurt to run a test and be sure.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

What temp theromstat does the Comp Coupe come with?

 

[EllowViper]

Did you lose a quart or so during this process? Looks like some blood/drops on the table...ouch.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

What temp theromstat does the Comp Coupe come with?

What temp coolant thermostat and what temp oil thermostat does it come with ?

NASCAR and CART teams we worked with targeted 230F for the oil.

 

[ROCKET62]

Tom - Thanks for replying as I always learn from the information you share. I think that I actually understood most of the terms you used - so thanks for keeping it simple. Others can hopefully chime in, but even before I changed my thermostat, I don't recall the oil temp even approaching the 210 mark on the dash guage.

Martin - The stuff did not feel solid - and there was virtually nothing on the magnetic drain plug - so I'm not overly worried and not sure it would be worth sending in an oil analysis. Not sure if this is a factor or not in why the oil looks a little dirty - but the oil has been in the Viper for 10 months as I changed it right before winter hit last year.

Ellow - My top goal in opening the can was NOT to cut myself - which I did succeed in. That can btw is really pretty solid and it did take quite an effort to get it open. The red stuff on the table was some red paint left over from a previous project.

 

[Copperhead245]

Tom,

Thanks for the info, good stuff, but I gotta agree with Rocket, I don't recall my oil temp hitting 212 - I'll watch it a little closer during my next track day later this month.

Honestly, do you think there is much difference between the stock 180 T-stat and a 170 T-stat in regards to the boiling off condensed water in Gen 3???

You answered Chuck's question (Comp Coup T-Stat temp) by saying NASCAR and CART teams target 230F for the oil. As far as I know, Gen III's don't have an "oil thermostat" so that really doesn't help us.

What temp coolant T-stat would we need to hit 230F oil temp - 190, 200, 210? I change my oil too frequently to worry about that...

Ron

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

In my Gen 1 there is an OEM 220F oil thermostat. The famous ACR oil filter adapter removed the thermostat to provide less restriction (and obviously less temperature control.) But stock Gen 2 had the thermostat, too.

I can't predict what coolant temp provides what oil temp; depends on RPM and load. In my Gen 1 it takes 30-40 minutes of highway driving to get oil up to where I see the thermostat opens (coolant reaches normal in far less time.) Track days is opposite; coolant is a little higher but oil temps are a lot higher.

In any case, this is why oil is "changed." It has dispersant and detergents (soap) in the base oil (water) and periodically you remove the contaminated mixture (dark oil) and replace with fresh oil (rinse and repeat.) So not to worry, but now you know.

Gen 1 oil thermostat:

 

[Tom Glenn]

My Comp Coupe came with a 185 deg thermostat (still in). I run oil temps between 215 & 240. We recieved an advisory from Dodge Performance to run a Fram Racing HP3 filter due to this issue. I order mine from Summit.

 

[Viper X]

OE T-stat was 185 F. Now running 170 F. Coolant temps still run 200 F to 230 F at the track, again depending on the above variables.

Oil temps in my 09 ACR run 220 F to 250 F at the track. Both depend on the air temp, track configuration and how hard I'm running the car that day. Much cooler on the street with the new 170 F T-stat.

Both coolant and oil temps were higher with the 185 T-stat.

Adding a "close out panel" soon to try and keep air flow directed through the radiator.

ACR's weakness, if you want to call it that, is that they seem to run a bit warmer on hot days than most of us would like when pressed hard.

Maybe higher capacity cooling fans or a bigger radiator would help?

Dan

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

If the concern over oil temp is lower oil pressure, then look into oil filters. I have experimented with street car filters and found that by adding exit holes (there are usually about 10 around the large threaded center hole) the engine oil pressure goes up 5-10 lbs. Oil temps from 220 to 250F are fine.