EBC Reds or Hawk HPS??

[Cal Cobra]

Hi,

I'm replacing the front rotors (with new slotted ones) and the pads this weekend. I'm taking the snake to the track at the end of the month, one of those driving school things at Thunderhill. You get five 20 minute track sessions.

I've heard that the EBC Reds are great for the track, but not the street. I would also like to reduce brake dust (having white wheels it's an issue), so I was thinking about getting these Performance HPS brake pads, the look good from their marketing writeup:

Hawk Performance HPS Brake Pads

The performance and quality you're looking for in Hawk Performance HPS brake pads.

These Hawk Performance HPS brake pads are designed to ensure performance, safety, and quality on the street. Hawk Performance HPS compound provides advanced braking characteristics to enhance your driving experience. This unique compound combines the safety and quality of aerospace design with the braking technology of motorsports.

Features of Hawk Performance HPS brake pads include:

* Extremely low dust
* High friction/torque, hot or cold
* Gentle on rotor
* Virtually noise-free
* Greatly improved braking over OE
* Extended pad life


Anyone using these for mainly street driving, and a little track now & then?

Thanks,
Cal

 

[Cal Cobra]

Actually these look pretty good too:

Hawk Performance ceramic brake pads give you quiet, clean, and fast stopping power at your command.
Hawk Performance has introduced a premium, high performance, ultra-low dust, low-noise compound called Performance Ceramic. Performance Ceramic is engineered to reduce brake NVH (noise, vibration, and harshness), creating a quieter performing brake pad. Furthermore, the ceramic brake pad formula has a linear friction profile that allows your ABS brake system to work more effectively. With Performance Ceramic, you can expect reduced brake pad wear, lower dust output levels, and rotor-friendly brake pads.

Key features include:

* Increased stopping power
* Increased rotor life
* Extended pad life
* Ultra-low dust
* Extremely quiet
* Stable friction output

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The worst Hawk pad is gonna be better than the best EBC pad.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Thanks Chuck. I think I'll order the ceramic ones, I like their low noise claim, and **ultra low dust**.

I'm thinking about switching to synthetic brake fluid too, but my friend says to be careful as some will ruin the o-rings in the calipers, I'm looking into that.

Cal

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I'm thinking about switching to synthetic brake fluid too, but my friend says to be careful as some will ruin the o-rings in the calipers, I'm looking into that.

Have you been on the track yet? If not, then you really don't know how much you are going to be heating up your brakes.

First time out I'd flush the brakes with a hi-temp fluid and go with a good cooling duct system like Henry and Janni Cones system that Partsrack sells.

The best brake fluid bar none is Castrol SRF but it does eat up the seals. That might mean more maintenance than you need right now. It is also considerably more expensive than any of the other brake fluids.

 

[Cal Cobra]

I haven't been out to the track yet, and it'll probably only be a once or twice at most a year event.

Searching through old forum posts here it looks like Valvoline SynPower DOT 4 is a good fluid to use for light track duty/mostly street use, and it shouldn't mess with the seals.

Cal

 

[Randy]

The best brake fluid bar none is Castrol SRF but it does eat up the seals. That might mean more maintenance than you need right now. It is also considerably more expensive than any of the other brake fluids.

One of our ex-racer club members can turn low 1:30's at Laguna Seca (which is extremely fast - faster than many full-race prepped cars), and the only departure from his stock '96 GTS to achieve those times have been Porterfield brake pads, Motul 600 brake fluid, slicks, Porsche air deflectors, and that is *it* (his car was even running slightly lower horsepower than others at a dyno event). He comes off the track with smoke literally curling from the front brakes every time I've run with him.

So, Motul 600 would seem to also be an effective brake fluid for serious track work.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The best brake fluid bar none is Castrol SRF but it does eat up the seals. That might mean more maintenance than you need right now. It is also considerably more expensive than any of the other brake fluids.

One of our ex-racer club members can turn low 1:30's at Laguna Seca (which is extremely fast - faster than many full-race prepped cars), and the only departure from his stock '96 GTS to achieve those times have been Porterfield brake pads, Motul 600 brake fluid, slicks, Porsche air deflectors, and that is *it* (his car was even running slightly lower horsepower than others at a dyno event). He comes off the track with smoke literally curling from the front brakes every time I've run with him.

So, Motul 600 would seem to also be an effective brake fluid for serious track work.

And then flushes the Motul immediately afterwards? I'm just not a fan of it. Seems like it would never last a full weekend for me. Castrol never boils for me.

 

[0260in3]

I use the Valvoline SynPower DOT 4 for everyday use and it also works well for a Viperdays weekend. As long as your 20 minute sessions aren't bunched together and the track you're going to run on is not notorious for brake problems the Valvoline should work.

Terry

 

[Randy]

So, Motul 600 would seem to also be an effective brake fluid for serious track work.

And then flushes the Motul immediately afterwards? I'm just not a fan of it. Seems like it would never last a full weekend for me. Castrol never boils for me.

"Seems?" OK, whatever. You seem to be saying that you've never tried it, but you feel confident in saying its not good enough?

Motul never boils for any of us, either, and isn't ******* the seals, either. As far as flushing, it *is* very hygroscopic, granted, but it lasts far more than a weekend for Rich. I use it for everyday use, and replace the fluid once a year and/or prior to any track time.

I know nothing of the Castrol fluid you use, and am not knocking it - I'm just mentioning another extremely good performance brake fluid which has proven itself by probably one of the fastest non-professional Viper drivers.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

So, Motul 600 would seem to also be an effective brake fluid for serious track work.

And then flushes the Motul immediately afterwards? I'm just not a fan of it. Seems like it would never last a full weekend for me. Castrol never boils for me.

"Seems?" OK, whatever. You seem to be saying that you've never tried it, but you feel confident in saying its not good enough?

Sorry for the "seems" confusion. I used Motul for years. By the time I was getting frustrated with it I was literally flushing after every full track day. If it works for you, great! I wish it worked for me because at $65/liter Castrol is pricey. BTW Castrol wet is 518 which blows away any competitive fluid.

 

[Randy]

Sorry for the "seems" confusion. I used Motul for years. By the time I was getting frustrated with it I was literally flushing after every full track day. If it works for you, great! I wish it worked for me because at $65/liter Castrol is pricey. BTW Castrol wet is 518 which blows away any competitive fluid.

Oh, OK. Thanks for the clarification. What have you had to do to maintain your seals when using it?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

What have you had to do to maintain your seals when using it?

So far just replace the piston seals.

 

[SEASNAKE]

I have used the EBC reds one time. They were bad on track and bad around town. I used EBC greens for normal driving and Brakeman for the track.

 

[Randy]

I have used the EBC reds one time. They were bad on track and bad around town. I used EBC greens for normal driving and Brakeman for the track.

I'm not sure why anyone would use EBC Reds, as they are an intermediate pad between the low-temp Greens and the higher temp Yellows. I use Green's on the street (well, I bought the Green's I use about 6 years ago, back when the Green's gripped better than stock pads, were half the price, and dusted less).

I've used EBC Yellows at Laguna Seca and Sears Point with generally good results, but, from everyone that tracks more than I, EBC is definitely *not* the way to go for the track - I hear the best track results for semi-serious track work are the Porterfield or Brakeman's. (Perhaps for serious racing, also; I'm just not currently familiar with what the serious racer's are using).

 

[Randy]

What have you had to do to maintain your seals when using it?

So far just replace the piston seals.

How often?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

What have you had to do to maintain your seals when using it?

So far just replace the piston seals.

How often?

I've replaced them twice so I recommend at least once a year.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Today I installed the Hawk HPS brake pads (not the Hawk ceramic ones) and new slotted rotors.

I have to say that my brakes are now extremely quite, just as Hawk advertises. Gone are the days of embarrassingly squeaky brakes.

Stopping power is excellent, I can definitely tell the difference.

It'll take a bit to tell if the brake dust issue is reduced (it does **** with white wheels, and takes me as long to wash the wheels as it does the rest of the car).

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to change the fluid (ran out of time as I had to go see the Giants get spanked by the Dodgers and now that I'm reading that the Castrol SRF does eat up the seals, I'm kind of glad I didn't make the switch to it. As I couldn't find that brand here, I picked up Prestone Synthetic DOT 4 brake fluid. The bottle indicates that it's fully compatible with DOT 3 & 4 fluids.

Does that mean that the Prestone synthetic DOT 4 will not eat up the seals, or will all Synthetic brake fluids eat the seals?

I'll be testing out the new brake pads and rotors more in debth at Thunderhill raceway on Aug. 31 (first time to the track, I can't wait!!).

Thanks,
Cal

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

DOT 4 is the factory fill. Your seals will be fine.

 

[ROCKET62]

Cal, I have been using the HPS pads and EBC rotors for about 2 months now and have been very happy with the performance and definitely less dust than stock. My take on the HPS (stands for High Performance Street) pads though is that they are a performance street pad, and not necessarily a track pad. Not quite sure how aggressive you plan to be at Thunderhill so hopefully you will not be disappointed.