Engine report from Arrow

[DocAdam]

I spoke with Todd at Arrow and my engine is in the "you done blown dat motor, son" pile.

More technically:

#1 and #7 rods
#3 and #4 pistons

Pistons went through the block and the rods took out the oil galley

Needs a completely new block, so no more #'s matching car for me.

Looks like it will be a good candidate for FI as soon as the warranty runs out.

 

[Dave T (BADVENM)]

I feel your pain. I had rod/piston #2 come through the block on my supercharged Ram while getting a checkup on the dyno from a certain dealership earlier this year. The dealership (different one) that sold me the truck didnt mention it was running nitrous/propane of an unknown amount before the Paxton and ON STOCK PISTONS!! If only that information would have been shared with me. I didnt even put 100 miles on the truck before it blew.

I got caught in the middle of 2 dealerships blaming the other and had to pay for another motor and all the trimmins' as they say to get it back on the road. It has upgraded pistons now. That whole incident still ****** me off. I wont go into the rest of the story in this thread but perhaps someday soon I'll let it all out.

Anyway, sorry about your motor. It ***** and is not cheap to fix. If I can help you get/find another motor I'll do what I can. I have some stuff off my old motor which is still good.

 

[DocAdam]

Luckily I am stock and still very much under warranty (although I did pay to upgrade to the comp coupe swingarm pickup).


There was some oil starvation (discolored rods) but that wasn't the root cause. The crank damper came loose (not the cam bolt as in the recall) and from there everything pretty much went to [*****].

Who knows for sure???

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Luckily I am stock and still very much under warranty (although I did pay to upgrade to the comp coupe swingarm pickup).


There was some oil starvation (discolored rods) but that wasn't the root cause. The crank damper came loose (not the cam bolt as in the recall) and from there everything pretty much went to [*****].

Who knows for sure???

What are the details? Is your car SS or were you racing it? How many miles?

 

[SRTRICKY]

Wow that *****!

 

[DocAdam]

What are the details? Is your car SS or were you racing it? How many miles?

From a post about a month ago:

For those that don't want to read: Basically I blew my engine.

While doing some spirited driving this past friday my engine started making a really bad noise. It was RPM dependent and seemed to be coming from the last cylinder on the left side of the engine. At first I thought it might be a lifter come loose, but then realized that the sound was way too loud and the entire engine was shaking a little too much. At this point I figured maybe I could nurse it to a little bit of a better location but within a mile my oil pressure dropped to zero, so I shut it down, pulled over to the side of the road and called the tow truck.

There was nothing coming out of the engine, no oil on the ground or anything. Something inside the engine just plain old broke. This is a 2004 SRT with 6000 miles and relatively stock.

So, as I expected they towed the car to a dealership without a Viper tech. So on Monday they towed it to a different dealer.



As of yesterday they started the engine briefly at which point they contacted Daimler Chrysler and decided that the best course of action would be to pull the entire motor, crate it up and ship it to Arrow racing for a diagnosis and potential rebuild including replacement of the block if necessary.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

What are the details? Is your car SS or were you racing it? How many miles?

From a post about a month ago:

For those that don't want to read: Basically I blew my engine.

While doing some spirited driving this past friday my engine started making a really bad noise. It was RPM dependent and seemed to be coming from the last cylinder on the left side of the engine. At first I thought it might be a lifter come loose, but then realized that the sound was way too loud and the entire engine was shaking a little too much. At this point I figured maybe I could nurse it to a little bit of a better location but within a mile my oil pressure dropped to zero, so I shut it down, pulled over to the side of the road and called the tow truck.

There was nothing coming out of the engine, no oil on the ground or anything. Something inside the engine just plain old broke. This is a 2004 SRT with 6000 miles and relatively stock.

So, as I expected they towed the car to a dealership without a Viper tech. So on Monday they towed it to a different dealer.



As of yesterday they started the engine briefly at which point they contacted Daimler Chrysler and decided that the best course of action would be to pull the entire motor, crate it up and ship it to Arrow racing for a diagnosis and potential rebuild including replacement of the block if necessary.

Thanks,that really *****.
I feel your pain:-(

 

[evomind]

that *****, but there may be a silver lining yet.
excuse me for not being familiar with arrow, but if it comes down to them doing a rebuild, they can probably build u a much better, stronger, more powerful engine for just a little more than what the stocker would cost.

 

[DocAdam]

that *****, but there may be a silver lining yet.
excuse me for not being familiar with arrow, but if it comes down to them doing a rebuild, they can probably build u a much better, stronger, more powerful engine for just a little more than what the stocker would cost.

It will be a much better engine and covered by warranty, but my car will no longer be numbers matching and that can effect resale.

 

[RayC]

That *****!! Any chance this is related to the cam gear bolt torque problem on some 2004 vipers. I had this problem with my mamba. As I recall it was a service bulletin put out by Dodge and not an official recall. It was discribed as somthing that could cause catastophic engine failure by Dodge. Jon B allerted me to it and when I contacted the dealer they didnt even know about it. As I recall it was 2004 vipers with build date between 9/16 and 1/30. Good luck with your repair and I hope you are back in the driving seat again soon!

 

[DocAdam]

There was some oil starvation (discolored rods) but that wasn't the root cause. The crank damper came loose (not the cam bolt as in the recall) and from there everything pretty much went to [*****].

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Get them to put in forged pistons if you are going FI.

 

[RichieSRT10]

Doc do you have an approx date as to when all this work will be done. What warranties will DC give you and have they offered you anything to smooth over this unfortunate incident. There should be some perks in this for all the lost time and aggravation. Have they ever use the word COMPENSATION.


Doc I wish you the best of luck.

 

[GTS Jeff]

Good Luck....when arrow rebuilt my motor it came back with someone else's scratched up valve covers and intake manifold (that had never been cleaned nor the injectors), when I complained they said they would send out a brand new intake and injectors....what showed up was another scratched and used intake. I had my dealer install it as it was the lesser of two evils, my dealer also replaced valve cover knowing I would not except it as it came back. Remember they also supposedly rebuilt the whole motor and put a used dirty and I mean dirty intake on it, then ran it on the dyno. So for some that say they come back better then new...I bet they do with other peoples nice parts on them

 

[DocAdam]

Doc do you have an approx date as to when all this work will be done. What warranties will DC give you and have they offered you anything to smooth over this unfortunate incident. There should be some perks in this for all the lost time and aggravation. Have they ever use the word COMPENSATION.


Doc I wish you the best of luck.

Of course they have offered me nothing to smoothe this over. Arrow should have the motor out by 22 October (at least that is what they told me).

As for warranty, everything just goes back to my basic plan. They should compensate me as having a non number matching car does hurt the resale.

 

[RichieSRT10]

I see no good faith on the part of DC. This disappoints me because this shows me the attitude of DC is screw the customer because, you are only one person or you are lucky we are going this far for you. I had a small problem several weeks back with my Lexus. I feel because of the service and the way they stand behind their product makes it hard for me to buy another luxury brand. This is what DC should be doing for you Doc!

DC can have the same loyalty but this is one of the reasons other then a Viper I would never purchase a vehicle from DC. Maybe if they hear enough voices from the peanut gallery they can modify there ways. After all if they screw you on a Viper what do they do if you own a PT Cruiser? Send you a letter saying you should have bought a Honda. LOL

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I see no good faith on the part of DC. This disappoints me because this shows me the attitude of DC is screw the customer because, you are only one person or you are lucky we are going this far for you.

I am not sure where he is getting screwed: The motor blew and they are replacing it and adding a couple things for him such as the Comp Coupe oil pan. Are they supposed to re-stamp the replacement block? Put a big red bow on it? They are doing exactly what Lexus would do, although I am not sure Doc got another Viper as a loaner car. The fact is that there aren't nearly as many V10's available as there are Toyota/Lexus engines. Thus it takes longer than many other more "common" cars. That is the only "screwing" I see, and don't even see that as anything within DC's control.

And as far as Arrow, they are the same company that built ALL new Viper engines originally (1992) before DC started building them in-house. I had an Arrow rebuild in my 2000 and it ran like a champ. Came back perfect and ran even better. Helped my resale too! While I sympathize with Doc 100%, I would note that "numbers matching" seems to be more of a hang-up with the Vette crowd. How many Viper ads have you seen that say "numbers matching"? I have never even been asked on any of the Vipers I have helped sell for local owners. Definitely a valid concern, but doubtful it will ever come into play.

 

[SylvanSRT]

numbers matching does not mean much with these cars. i'm not even sure if the the actuall numbers on the engine block match the vin at all, they may be included on the build report or meroni stickers(not sure about that either). Its a tough situation to go through(i did), the new motor that i got in my car was MUCH stronger than the the orginal. The viper is probably one of the few cars that a non-orginal factory rebuild(Arrow) would be more desirable to me. As the name state Arrow Racing Motors, they hand build and bench test all motors in house. they take almost one whole work week to complete this process, vs. the 44 PER day that CAAP is capable of building! Arrow also uses better(tighter) tolerences than the factory motor. An Arrow rebuild also will not need a "break in oil change" they run the motor in on a engine dyno and then drain the fluids(oil) and ship the motor out broken in and you get a fresh oil fill at engine install.

 

[KenricGTS]

What power are these Arrow engines running?

 

[DocAdam]

By the way, I paid for the comp coupe oil pan not DC. Arrow is putting it in free of charge, but the parts were on me.

DC is honoring the warranty, which is about all I really expected from them. Luckily it is a weekend vehicle for me, if a DD was going to be out of commission for 2 months I would be more **********.

As it goes, I have too many other things going on right now to even worry about DC. If the Viper were sitting in garage these past 2 months it wouldn't even have gotten 10 miles of driving.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Numbers matching means nothing with Vipers. It might 20 years from now. And anyone who has been around the Viper community for long recognizes an Arrow rebuild as a lot better motor than stock.
And how about those forged pistons Doc? If you're getting the comp coupe oil pan and thinking forced induction, don't you need those?
And I'm kind of amused at the Lexus comment. It WOULD certainly be unusual for someone who can afford a $70,000 LS430 to buy a DC product, they really don't compete in the same segment. And yes the service is impeccable, Infiniti is even better. But those two companies had the advantage of starting fresh with a brand new dealer body and way of business in 1990. No matter what Ford, GM or Dodge/Chrysler do they are running uphill to conform a dealer network that largely does not get it about service. When you see what Woodhouse or Tator or Roanoke or Ringgold has done you know whay we probably buy 70% of the Vipers sold from these and a few other guys. They got the message and they operate that way.

 

[DocAdam]

It's all about warranty, the oil pan will not change it but going with different internals, cam, rods or rockers would.

I may go FI one day, but for right now a solid warranty is more important.

 

[silversrt]

I've had 4 vipers, 3 of which had loose balancer bolts. One resulted in a complete engine rebuild. My 5th viper was purchased, driven 5 miles from dealer and the harmonic balancer let go throwing the belt. I cancelled the deal, returned the car and told the service mechanic the diagnosis before I even checked under the hood. Either I have extremely bad luck or this is a relatively common V-10 problem. My current viper had a loose bolt which I loctited and matchmarked for ease of checking every so often. No problems since.