exhaust & gear questions

[KB Viper]

Members,

I'd like some opinions and advice on exhaust & gearing for the Gen 5. I've called around and gotten many different opinions and since this is my first Viper I'd like to ask about your experiences.
1st question; will the car lean out, go into limp mode, or just have lights on the dash if I put on headers with high flow cats using the stock computer?
2nd question; since mopar has the same part number on the mopar headers for the gen 5 that were on the gen 4 would you by headers that were engineered for a gen 4 and put them on a gen 5? Anthony at american racing & Lou at Belanger said their gen 5 headers are also the same headers they engineered on the gen 4. Lou said the only difference was the exhaust tip on the muffler not being round. But on a thread i read from Hennessey on Viper alley, John Hennessey said the gen 4 headers are slightly different from the new gen 5 headers and are not a direct fit.
3rd question; does anyone have an opinion on the Bad Boys garage headers that Toddy is engineering now? i spoke with him in detail and he said he is engineering these specifically for the gen 5 in conjunction with the gen 5 mopar race computer, would you wait for these?
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/661529-NEW-SRT-VIPER-GEN-5-GEN-4-RACE-HEADERS-BBG-STYLE-(Teaser-Photos)
4th question; the mopar performance cat back also has the same part number as the gen 4, would you buy a muffler tuned for the gen 4 or wait for a B&B or Corsa to make one specifically forthe gen 5? Did any of you experience drone with belenger, b&b, corsa, or mopar muffler? I know my corsas did not drone on my zr1 but i have no experience with viper mufflers.
5th question; our cars come with a 3.55 gear ratio and two performance shops i'm speaking to said that changing the gears is the best bang for the buck ($1200 for dana gears all in)on these cars and will give the car violent acceleration make it easier to access the power of the car. one shop says go 3.73 and the other says 3.91, are any of you planning on doing this mod? If so which ratio are you going with and why?

thanks in advance for you input!
Kris

 

[ViperGeorge]

I honestly can't imagine going to 3.73s in a Gen 5. The Gen 5 I drove with stock gears rev'd too high for my liking as it was. 2500rpm at 80 in 6th. My Gen 4 does about 1400rpm at 80 in 6th. Putting in 3.73s would make it undriveable on the highway IMO. They also changed gears in the tranny so 6th is something like what 5th used to be.

 

[KB Viper]

that's good insight. tonight I'll go for a drive on the freeway and see where the rpms are at going 75 then 80 in 6th.

 

[Jack B]

kristopherbush:

1.High Flow cats - Sean Roe had good luck on the G4 without the Mopar PCM. In most cases the spark plug extenders used on the O2 wells would stop the CEL. Give Sean a call. I am going to put high flow cats on in a couple of weeks.

2. G5 Headers - the turn-outs are slightly different because the frame has minor changes and the engine has moved to the starboard a little. That means that the headers might work, however, the exhaust is different.

3. 3.91 Gears - ridiculous, 3.73's, maybe.


Qbatejan:

Each to his own, but, here is are the actual speeds:

3.55 at 2500 in 6th gives you 91 mph, on the other hand, you are probably right, the 3.73's might be too much, however, they would sure help offset that light flywheel down low. Most peopl on the board are of the opinion that that 6th gear was not usable before.

Here is the link: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/666914-exhaust-amp-gear-questions

I honestly can't imagine going to 3.73s in a Gen 5. The Gen 5 I drove with stock gears rev'd too high for my liking as it was. 2500rpm at 80 in 6th. My Gen 4 does about 1400rpm at 80 in 6th. Putting in 3.73s would make it undriveable on the highway IMO. They also changed gears in the tranny so 6th is something like what 5th used to be.

 

[KB Viper]

thanks for the info JackB, are you just adding highflow cats or are you doing long tube headers with high flow cats?

 

[72hemi]

I would wait for the BBG headers. Toddy does incredible work, has a real passion for these cars, and knows what he is doing. As for the gears leave the stock ratio alone, since the Gen V has traction control and stability control I would not be surprised if changing the rear axle ratio would have a negative impact on those systems. As for the catback system wait for a true Gen V specific system.

 

[ViperGeorge]

kristopherbush:

1.High Flow cats - Sean Roe had good luck on the G4 without the Mopar PCM. In most cases the spark plug extenders used on the O2 wells would stop the CEL. Give Sean a call. I am going to put high flow cats on in a couple of weeks.

2. G5 Headers - the turn-outs are slightly different because the frame has minor changes and the engine has moved to the starboard a little. That means that the headers might work, however, the exhaust is different.

3. 3.91 Gears - ridiculous, 3.73's, maybe.


gbatejan:

Each to his own, but, here is are the actual speeds:

3.55 at 2500 in 6th gives you 91 mph, on the other hand, you are probably right, the 3.73's might be too much, however, they would sure help offset that light flywheel down low. Most peopl on the board are of the opinion that that 6th gear was not usable before.

Here is the link: http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/666914-exhaust-amp-gear-questions

Check out this thread and in particular Nine Ball's comments. His view echos my own.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/666920-The-Gen-5-Gearing-versus-the-Gen-2-Gearing

Lots of folks have wanted a different ratio for 6th, that's for sure (as you say to each his own). However, in the Gen 5, the rear end ratio was changed in addition to, I believe, the 6th gear ratio in the tranny. While it may not be 2500rpm at 80 it is not far off. The exhaust note of the Gen 5 while pleasent gets tiring at that rpm. Living out west where the distances are large and the speed limits higher (interstates are at 85mph now in some places), 6th gear coupled with the 3:55s are the wrong combo IMO. I just don't think the Gen 5 6th gear ratio is as good as the Gen 4. I've suggested to SRT that they offer an optional rear end gear ratio. Car makers used to do this all the time in the 60s (yea, I'm that old). A 3:33 or 3:03 would help gas mileage and might reduce the gas guzzler tax for those that wanted it. It would also make long distance cruising better. Now if you live back east or won't do much highway driving then by all means a 3:55 is fine but for me I would prefer a 3:03.

 

[SRTviper]

Check out this thread and in particular Nine Ball's comments. His view echos my own.

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/666920-The-Gen-5-Gearing-versus-the-Gen-2-Gearing

Lots of folks have wanted a different ratio for 6th, that's for sure (as you say to each his own). However, in the Gen 5, the rear end ratio was changed in addition to, I believe, the 6th gear ratio in the tranny. While it may not be 2500rpm at 80 it is not far off. The exhaust note of the Gen 5 while pleasent gets tiring at that rpm. Living out west where the distances are large and the speed limits higher (interstates are at 85mph now in some places), 6th gear coupled with the 3:55s are the wrong combo IMO. I just don't think the Gen 5 6th gear ratio is as good as the Gen 4. I've suggested to SRT that they offer an optional rear end gear ratio. Car makers used to do this all the time in the 60s (yea, I'm that old). A 3:33 or 3:03 would help gas mileage and might reduce the gas guzzler tax for those that wanted it. It would also make long distance cruising better. Now if you live back east or won't do much highway driving then by all means a 3:55 is fine but for me I would prefer a 3:03.

I think a 3:33 or 3:31 would be perfect for then gen 5. In fact I think all american cars like this making over 600 hp should have that has mandatory to control that power and as already stated it would get way better gas mileage and save us from the 2500 dollar gas tax. I think a popular mod on this car would be an exhaust change since a lot of people are complaining about it. If I get it I will definitely probably change it out with corsa. The corsa exhaust on my 13 shelby is the only exhaust I can say without a doubt far exceeds the OEM quality axleback that came with it.

 

[Voice of Reason]

A 3.33 or 3.03 read end with the first gear ratio in this car would not be good. First already takes you up a little past 60. With a 3.03 it would probably take you up to 70-75! Heck with that gearing I'd never get out of first driving around town, as it is now I don't get out of second when the speed limit is 35 which is most of my small town.

 

[SRTviper]

A 3.33 or 3.03 read end with the first gear ratio in this car would not be good. First already takes you up a little past 60. With a 3.03 it would probably take you up to 70-75! Heck with that gearing I'd never get out of first driving around town, as it is now I don't get out of second when the speed limit is 35 which is most of my small town.

Oh? If first is over 60 already then it is good as it is.

 

[Jack B]

This car would **** with a 3.07 - end of discussion. Ask anyone driving one.

Oh? If first is over 60 already then it is good as it is.

 

[SRTviper]

This car would **** with a 3.07 - end of discussion. Ask anyone driving one.

Never even recommended 3.07. I said 3.33 or 3.31 until I was told that it already gets to 60 in which stock gearing is fine.

 

[Jack B]

Just supporting your position

Never even recommended 3.07. I said 3.33 or 3.31 until I was told that it already gets to 60 in which stock gearing is fine.

 

[SRTviper]

Just supporting your position

Ah I see. lol. Well then ignore my last post.

 

[KB Viper]

Anyone doing headers now?

 

[Voice of Reason]

Anyone doing headers now?

I like the idea of headers, but SRT is going to have to either unlock the PCM so it can be tuned for them or sell a "off road use only" PCM that tunes for their headers before I spend the money. I'm not willing to risk a check engine light from the o2 sensors being moved nor am I interested in dropping that much money when it's not going to show proper gains without a tune. The car already sounds perfect so they need to entice me with more power to make a sale.

 

[Jack B]

Headers should not set a cel, a cat change might. If anything a header change would have several side benefuts.

I like the idea of headers, but SRT is going to have to either unlock the PCM so it can be tuned for them or sell a "off road use only" PCM that tunes for their headers before I spend the money. I'm not willing to risk a check engine light from the o2 sensors being moved nor am I interested in dropping that much money when it's not going to show proper gains without a tune. The car already sounds perfect so they need to entice me with more power to make a sale.

 

[KB Viper]

I called Viper parts of america and Chris called an SRT engineer and they say that with high flow cats the light most likely won't come on, but could. he did confirm the car will not lean out and without the race pcm the car will still have nice gains. I agree though, i want to wait for the race computer to be sure lights don't come on and to get the full benefit of the headers.

 

[Paul Hawker]

kristopher.

Since you are in San Diego, you might want to contact Todd at A&C.

He works closly with Toddy at Big Boys Garage, and could give you some good suggestions. (almost same name : >)

He just got a newer Dyno, with big horsepower capability, so he could give you some recent testing results with different headers.

Often times it is not just the results of one upgrade component, but the well thought out combination of parts that result in the best results.

Spend some time with Todd, and tell him what you are trying to obtain. Listen to his thoughts, and make your own decision, but in this area, Todd has produced some remarkably capable higher performance Vipers.

951-696-0500