als 08 viper acr
Enthusiast
Besides Gm, Apparently Nissan Is Also Interested In Chrysler. Which Do You Think Would Be A Better Merger Partner & Why?
Gm Or Nissan-which Would Be Better For Viper
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Nitro187
Viper Owner
GM... keep it in America!
To play Devil's Advocate....I would say Nissan.
To me...it would be great if they could make a car with the "soul" of an American engine and feel...but the quality of workmanship in a "made in Japan" vehicle. I really love my Viper GTS...but there are some things that could be made better. I am not saying that everything on an import is better....but, for an everyday car with no major issues and reliability worries...the Japan cars are a bit better in that department.
I guess the next comment is.....Flame Away.
To me...it would be great if they could make a car with the "soul" of an American engine and feel...but the quality of workmanship in a "made in Japan" vehicle. I really love my Viper GTS...but there are some things that could be made better. I am not saying that everything on an import is better....but, for an everyday car with no major issues and reliability worries...the Japan cars are a bit better in that department.
I guess the next comment is.....Flame Away.
GTSRboy2000
Enthusiast
Nissan. Forget about any pointless american bias, GM is a bad company so i dont want them owning Chrysler. Simple as that, i wish all our american car companies wernt failing, but we just dont know how to make cars. I really think Nissan would whip them into shape. Im not sure if they would get the Viper...i think chryser is selling it reguardless, and im not sure how interested nissan is owning a competitor of the GT-R. I happen to really like Nissan, the GTR is great, the Z series are some of my favorite cars, and the old Skylines are legend, and their current linup of cars sure as heck beats dodges current linup. If you like Chrysler, than you want to see them do well, so if Nissan buying them is the only way thats going to happen than im all for it. GM buying Chrysler has fail all over it
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Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
Well, from what I see, GM would kill off all of Chrysler's vehicles minus the minivans and Jeep brand. 1 down for GM
Nissan on the other hand has very few product duplicates with Chrysler. Nissan in fact wants to enter some of the markets Chrysler group sells in, meaning they are less likelly to kill of existing product than GM is becasue GM sees the Dodge vehicles as competitors of theirs. Think Ram pickups. 1 Up for Nissan.
Nissan should help continue to bring quality up. 1 up for Nissan.
Nissan however does not like big motors. Bye bye Chargers, 300's, and SUV's and SRT's. 1 down for Nissan.
As for Viper, they may see a profitable business venture with it so it may stay. However, they may decide to kill it due to big motor/emission standards in the next few years. 0 points.
All GM is after is the Chrysler 11 Billion cash reserves. Everything else will be stripped and sold for profit becuase they do not need it. 1 up for Nissan.
GM keeps it within the USA. 1 up for GM.
This only accounts for the GM/Nissan possibility. If Tata, or someone from China buys the brand, well, that is a very different ball game. Someone like Tata may love to have a supercar like Viper under their wing. Bottom line for Viper: Neither sinario looks good.
This subject makes me stressed. Need to go find food.
Robert
Nissan on the other hand has very few product duplicates with Chrysler. Nissan in fact wants to enter some of the markets Chrysler group sells in, meaning they are less likelly to kill of existing product than GM is becasue GM sees the Dodge vehicles as competitors of theirs. Think Ram pickups. 1 Up for Nissan.
Nissan should help continue to bring quality up. 1 up for Nissan.
Nissan however does not like big motors. Bye bye Chargers, 300's, and SUV's and SRT's. 1 down for Nissan.
As for Viper, they may see a profitable business venture with it so it may stay. However, they may decide to kill it due to big motor/emission standards in the next few years. 0 points.
All GM is after is the Chrysler 11 Billion cash reserves. Everything else will be stripped and sold for profit becuase they do not need it. 1 up for Nissan.
GM keeps it within the USA. 1 up for GM.
This only accounts for the GM/Nissan possibility. If Tata, or someone from China buys the brand, well, that is a very different ball game. Someone like Tata may love to have a supercar like Viper under their wing. Bottom line for Viper: Neither sinario looks good.
This subject makes me stressed. Need to go find food.
Robert
As a semi-biased observer I would say Renault. I see no light at the end of the tunnel with GM. Total duplication. It would be annhilation at the worst with no winner except the Cerberus three headed dog.
Renault (though the thought of foreign ownership is bad), would more probably keep it mostly intact as an entity as they have done with Nissan with a total change in management. Renault has shown surprizing capability in managing Nissan and changing it from a financial disaster to a decent company.
Renault (though the thought of foreign ownership is bad), would more probably keep it mostly intact as an entity as they have done with Nissan with a total change in management. Renault has shown surprizing capability in managing Nissan and changing it from a financial disaster to a decent company.
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
Nice observations, Ron.
Warfang
Enthusiast
Nissan? Quality? What a joke... the GTR transmissions are getting eaten up using launch control.
*** cars' **** stinks as much as any American car. No point comparing a 10+ yr old car with a new one.
*** cars' **** stinks as much as any American car. No point comparing a 10+ yr old car with a new one.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Can anybody out there loan me a couple $10 Billion? I'll bring back the K-car........................................
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Like what?
Well my AC died. It was checked and O-Rings replaced...and apparently something is still amiss. The doors do sag a little, and I guess I am not that used to all the other "clunky" noises that emanates from the car yet. And it leaked on me (that was funny) and battery dies quickly and seems to drain constantly even at rest.
Chuck-I know that you are a real die hard Viper fan, and thats cool. I respect that. The car is what it is meant to be. Though, for the roads and the conditions here, granted, it is not an everyday car. Though, no fault of the car, the roads are rough and areas are tight. Just that I have had my share of domestic and import cars, and in general from my experience, the imports seemed to last a bit longer in regards to quality control. Neither of the prior cars I have had were as expensive as the Viper, but it still cost me a lot of money and I did get my 8-10 years worth out of them.
So far....*knock on wood*, I have not a major issue, just little small things that I just wish could have been engineered differently. I am VERY new to the entire Viper scene...and I admit there are a lot of things that I dont know yet....I am just stating thoughts and small observations that I have noticed. I am not bashing the car, I do own one after all.
Chuck-I know that you are a real die hard Viper fan, and thats cool. I respect that. The car is what it is meant to be. Though, for the roads and the conditions here, granted, it is not an everyday car. Though, no fault of the car, the roads are rough and areas are tight. Just that I have had my share of domestic and import cars, and in general from my experience, the imports seemed to last a bit longer in regards to quality control. Neither of the prior cars I have had were as expensive as the Viper, but it still cost me a lot of money and I did get my 8-10 years worth out of them.
So far....*knock on wood*, I have not a major issue, just little small things that I just wish could have been engineered differently. I am VERY new to the entire Viper scene...and I admit there are a lot of things that I dont know yet....I am just stating thoughts and small observations that I have noticed. I am not bashing the car, I do own one after all.
GTSRboy2000
Enthusiast
When Dodge first built the viper they were strapped for cash....why did they decide to build a sportcar then, but now (again strapped for cash) are they ignoring it and looking to get rid of it?
The vette has been doing so good latly becasue GM is pumping lots of cash into it and Bob Lutz is helping them out for some reason. Even with those odds the 08 Viper ACR still manages to be the fastest production car in the world around the most extreme track in the world
The vette has been doing so good latly becasue GM is pumping lots of cash into it and Bob Lutz is helping them out for some reason. Even with those odds the 08 Viper ACR still manages to be the fastest production car in the world around the most extreme track in the world
It's not Dodge for a long time now. It was Daimler and recently it's Cerebus.
The vette plant was shutdown to slow production and there's way too many not selling. Rumour abound that ZR1 production is already cancelled, etc.
GM should buy Nissan and cancel out their cars. It's the patriotic, honest smart thing to do. It's what I'd do.
Ted
When Chrysler bought AMC from Renault they expanded the Jeep line and ran the Eagle line which was a part of Diamond Star Motors and after 10 years quit with the Eagle Eclipse, Talon, etc. That worked out well.
If GM was going to phase out Chrysler over 10 years then quite a bit of Chrysler would survive and with good management could make all GMs better products. Too bad GM wasn't even interested in absorbing the best features, just "eliminating the competition as fast as possible. All that great Dodge stuff down the tubes. The company with the most performance records destroyed by a jealous competitor. Sad.
Ted
If GM was going to phase out Chrysler over 10 years then quite a bit of Chrysler would survive and with good management could make all GMs better products. Too bad GM wasn't even interested in absorbing the best features, just "eliminating the competition as fast as possible. All that great Dodge stuff down the tubes. The company with the most performance records destroyed by a jealous competitor. Sad.
Ted
Warfang
Enthusiast
A 10 year old car... and you track it HOW often?Well my AC died. It was checked and O-Rings replaced...and apparently something is still amiss. The doors do sag a little, and I guess I am not that used to all the other "clunky" noises that emanates from the car yet. And it leaked on me (that was funny) and battery dies quickly and seems to drain constantly even at rest.
Chuck-I know that you are a real die hard Viper fan, and thats cool. I respect that. The car is what it is meant to be. Though, for the roads and the conditions here, granted, it is not an everyday car. Though, no fault of the car, the roads are rough and areas are tight. Just that I have had my share of domestic and import cars, and in general from my experience, the imports seemed to last a bit longer in regards to quality control. Neither of the prior cars I have had were as expensive as the Viper, but it still cost me a lot of money and I did get my 8-10 years worth out of them.
So far....*knock on wood*, I have not a major issue, just little small things that I just wish could have been engineered differently. I am VERY new to the entire Viper scene...and I admit there are a lot of things that I dont know yet....I am just stating thoughts and small observations that I have noticed. I am not bashing the car, I do own one after all.
My sister goes through Hondas like toilet paper... it breaks down often... many recalls. But her idiot husband keeps buying them because "*** cars are more reliable... and better resale value."
Re: Gm Or Nissan-which Would Be Better For Vipert
Okay, I am typing from a Blackberry, so response might be a little jumbled, pardon.
Honestly I can't track the car the way that it was meant to be. The track here closed, and the SCCA course really favors smaller cars like Miatas and the like. However, none of the small things that I was talking about had nothing to do with tracking the car. Just everyday things that I didn't expect to worry about. However I did mention that I really do enjoy the car, just has quirks.
Hondas...never really liked them, but then again, just because it is an import, it doesn't mean that it was built in Japan or even overseas. There are some plants here that employ Americans in making these cars as well. So always bashing an import can also be putting down your fellow "neighbor" as well if they are employeed by such a company. As long as you are employeed and can legally put food on the table and take care of your family, to me, that's great. It has nothing to do with being anti-American or un-patriotic.
Also, not that it really will make a difference, but is it possible to not use the word "****"? It is really a degrading slur, rather than the full word of Japanese. Considering what my grandparents and mother went through even though they were American citizens it kind of strikes a cord and its depressing.
Anyhow, back on track.
I enjoy driving my Viper...period. Yes there are some things that I wished could have been designed or engineered a little better. But, okay so what. I accepted it for what it is.
Import cars are not bullet-proof. There are some really problematic ones as well. Even we owned one at one time.
If GM or any other company takes over, the bottom line to me is that they need to take pride in their work. Like any other craft trade, a person whom takes pride in what they do almost always produces a better quality product and people will pay the money even if its a little more.
I do hope that the Viper line continues. Its a nitch market, but a passionate one.
Anyway, its just my opinion. Never said that mine didn't "stink", just thought to answer the question by the OP.
Speed safe. =)
Okay, I am typing from a Blackberry, so response might be a little jumbled, pardon.
Honestly I can't track the car the way that it was meant to be. The track here closed, and the SCCA course really favors smaller cars like Miatas and the like. However, none of the small things that I was talking about had nothing to do with tracking the car. Just everyday things that I didn't expect to worry about. However I did mention that I really do enjoy the car, just has quirks.
Hondas...never really liked them, but then again, just because it is an import, it doesn't mean that it was built in Japan or even overseas. There are some plants here that employ Americans in making these cars as well. So always bashing an import can also be putting down your fellow "neighbor" as well if they are employeed by such a company. As long as you are employeed and can legally put food on the table and take care of your family, to me, that's great. It has nothing to do with being anti-American or un-patriotic.
Also, not that it really will make a difference, but is it possible to not use the word "****"? It is really a degrading slur, rather than the full word of Japanese. Considering what my grandparents and mother went through even though they were American citizens it kind of strikes a cord and its depressing.
Anyhow, back on track.
I enjoy driving my Viper...period. Yes there are some things that I wished could have been designed or engineered a little better. But, okay so what. I accepted it for what it is.
Import cars are not bullet-proof. There are some really problematic ones as well. Even we owned one at one time.
If GM or any other company takes over, the bottom line to me is that they need to take pride in their work. Like any other craft trade, a person whom takes pride in what they do almost always produces a better quality product and people will pay the money even if its a little more.
I do hope that the Viper line continues. Its a nitch market, but a passionate one.
Anyway, its just my opinion. Never said that mine didn't "stink", just thought to answer the question by the OP.
Speed safe. =)
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Warfang
Enthusiast
Re: Gm Or Nissan-which Would Be Better For Vipert
As for ****... until they owe up to WW2, especially what they did in NanKing... "***" is the nicest name I have for them. No offense to the individual, but as a society... they can kiss my @$$. They STILL teach their kids that they were innocent of any wrongdoing in WW2 and the bad ol Americans dropped 2 nuked on em unprovoked. Besides... Japanese is 5 whole letters in addition. Who's got time? If it'll make you feeeeeeel better, pretend there's a period after "***" and just think I'm abbreviating.
The 3 hondas she's had... 2 built in Japan... 1 in the US. All crap. Although to be fair, the first one was pretty old when she got it. Does that mean ALL *** cars are crap? No... many are actually great and live up to their "myth", but that doesn't mean they are perfect... to assume everything build by Japan is reliable is just idiotic. To slander anything built by the big3 as trash is ignorant. It's just a perverse perception that is self-fulfilling. If you THINK American cars are junk... every little thing you find wrong will fuel your perception. If you think *** cars' **** don't stink... you'll make every excuse when you find little problems. Sis' second (japan) honda was recalled 3 times... with her broken down on the side of the road 3 times. This is after her husband chastised me for buying an unreliable American car. When I called him on it, he just shrugged and said "Well, they're fixing it for free... and it's STILL a Honda". Idiots.
As for ****... until they owe up to WW2, especially what they did in NanKing... "***" is the nicest name I have for them. No offense to the individual, but as a society... they can kiss my @$$. They STILL teach their kids that they were innocent of any wrongdoing in WW2 and the bad ol Americans dropped 2 nuked on em unprovoked. Besides... Japanese is 5 whole letters in addition. Who's got time? If it'll make you feeeeeeel better, pretend there's a period after "***" and just think I'm abbreviating.
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Warfang
Enthusiast
btw... shouldn't this be in "General"
This thread has no bearings on Gen 1-2.
This thread has no bearings on Gen 1-2.
As an American citizen and a car enthusiast, I can understand somethings yes. But then again as mentioned, the one that will put out a better product will be the one that has mode pride and care in their work. Ultimately the problems in a companies failing infrastucture could be traced to just poor leadership and gathering of information.
GM has a decent R&D group, based on what kind of products they can produce when they want to, and so can any other import company. Its hard to say keep it in the US since so many other factors affect that decision. I suppose what I would see as important is the ability for that company to produce products that are reliable, durable, and what the public wants to use. Also more so, being honest and keeping the employees best interest in mind as much as possible. With all of the CEO's and company heads screwing their employees, the future looks a little shaky for now.
In the end, whatever happens to the Big 3...I hope that someone can step up to the plate and take better leadership and care with the company and its employees.
GM has a decent R&D group, based on what kind of products they can produce when they want to, and so can any other import company. Its hard to say keep it in the US since so many other factors affect that decision. I suppose what I would see as important is the ability for that company to produce products that are reliable, durable, and what the public wants to use. Also more so, being honest and keeping the employees best interest in mind as much as possible. With all of the CEO's and company heads screwing their employees, the future looks a little shaky for now.
In the end, whatever happens to the Big 3...I hope that someone can step up to the plate and take better leadership and care with the company and its employees.
KenH
Enthusiast
Nissan. The Viper will then be able to run 3 sec 0-60, low 10's in the 1/4 and 7:10 at the ring all without any changes to the car.
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