Hawk Pads vs. Red Pads
- Thread starter voi9
- Start date
I am not able to sleep and I was just searching the same matter on the web ....
Roe Racing and partsrack sells them.
I have been using the Awk HP Plus on a race BMW on all 4 wheels with outstanding result on track. On street the cold bite is a little mild but acceptable. It is also rotor friendly. The only issue is the dust. However this dust is easy to clean compared to other pad dusts. For instance the PFC brake pad dust is hard to clean.
So I was thingking about using the HP plus on my Viper too.
However at Viper days the word is to run with brakeman #3.
Roe Racing and partsrack sells them.
I have been using the Awk HP Plus on a race BMW on all 4 wheels with outstanding result on track. On street the cold bite is a little mild but acceptable. It is also rotor friendly. The only issue is the dust. However this dust is easy to clean compared to other pad dusts. For instance the PFC brake pad dust is hard to clean.
So I was thingking about using the HP plus on my Viper too.
However at Viper days the word is to run with brakeman #3.
Last edited:
FrankBarba
Enthusiast
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Simple Google search brought about this web site. PartsRack should sell the EBC Reds.
This should get you started.
Hawk Performance Brake Pads: Race Proven, Street Legal
Performance Friction
Carbotech Performance Brakes
This should get you started.
Hawk Performance Brake Pads: Race Proven, Street Legal
Performance Friction
Carbotech Performance Brakes
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
I was gonna suggest you should be more specific since Hawk makes several types of pads. But I guess if you just want a general overview, Hawk will stop you, EBC Reds will not dust up.
dave6666
Enthusiast
I am using EBC Reds on my GTS with SRT calipers and 14" 2-piece rotors. The equivalent of the modern ACR brakes. The stopping is not that impressive on the street, but in perspective, the car stops fast anyway. Dusting is minimal. So for street driving if you like clean wheels I would say yes. But if you want to stop better than the OE pads I would say no.
I've never used Hawk on my Viper but use their HPS (High Performance Street) on another car. I can't tell you about wheel dusting as the wheel centers are solid and therefore no dust could get through, but the stopping is excellent with minimal rotor wear.
I've never used Hawk on my Viper but use their HPS (High Performance Street) on another car. I can't tell you about wheel dusting as the wheel centers are solid and therefore no dust could get through, but the stopping is excellent with minimal rotor wear.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
I used the Hawks and have very little dust. I do get some squeal. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. that is why I changed from the Reds way too much squeal.
I tried the EBC reds and switched back the stock Brembos. While they produce less dust you sacrifice some braking force. They are listed in the classifieds. under 3000 miles on the pads.
Hard to beat the stock pads.
Hard to beat the stock pads.
Last edited:
Brian GTS
Enthusiast
I have tried just about every street use pad out there; Hawks (HPS and Ceramic), EBC (Reds and Greens), Porterfield, etc. I now use Hawks on my cars...nice bite, no noise, very low dust...good quality pad. If you want to know where to get them, PM me. Unless things have changed, I am unaware of a VCA supporting vendor that stocks them.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
This is what I use for my daliy driver.. Hawk Performance: Performance Ceramic Brake Pads
AZTVR
Enthusiast
wallbanger
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EBC reds **** in every possible way....hawk performance ceramics are on the viper and challenger and rock.... .02
One of the main differences between ceramic-enhanced friction materials and semi-metallic brake linings is that ceramic pads contain no steel wool or fibers. Steel provides strength and conducts heat away from rotors, but it also makes pads noisy. Steel also acts like an abrasive and causes rotor wear. Substituting ceramic materials and copper fibers for steel allows ceramic pads to handle the high brake temperatures with less heat fade, to recovery quickly, to experience less wear on both the pads and rotors, and to virtually eliminate noise. Annoying brake squeal is eliminated because the ceramic-enhanced compound dampens noise and moves vibrations to a frequency beyond our range of hearing.
Another features of ceramic pads is less visible brake dust on the wheels. All brake pads produce dust as they wear. But the ingredients in ceramic pads typically produce a light colored dust that is much less noticeable, and it does not stick to wheels like ordinary brake dust... the other key feature to achieving maximum performance from your ceramic pad is to bed them in properly...
One of the main differences between ceramic-enhanced friction materials and semi-metallic brake linings is that ceramic pads contain no steel wool or fibers. Steel provides strength and conducts heat away from rotors, but it also makes pads noisy. Steel also acts like an abrasive and causes rotor wear. Substituting ceramic materials and copper fibers for steel allows ceramic pads to handle the high brake temperatures with less heat fade, to recovery quickly, to experience less wear on both the pads and rotors, and to virtually eliminate noise. Annoying brake squeal is eliminated because the ceramic-enhanced compound dampens noise and moves vibrations to a frequency beyond our range of hearing.
Another features of ceramic pads is less visible brake dust on the wheels. All brake pads produce dust as they wear. But the ingredients in ceramic pads typically produce a light colored dust that is much less noticeable, and it does not stick to wheels like ordinary brake dust... the other key feature to achieving maximum performance from your ceramic pad is to bed them in properly...
Brian GTS
Enthusiast
Which Hawks ? Have a preference ?
For Gen I/II cars, get the HPS pads as they do not have a ceramic set for the rear. For Gen III/IV (street use), you can get ceramics all the way around.
jmillsUT28
Enthusiast
I just ordered the Hawk HPS pads from Roe. Once I get my Paxton back from CA then I will give you an update.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
What about EBC greens..........................
Front EBC green brakes for Gen I and Gen IIs - ViperClub Classifieds
Front EBC green brakes for Gen I and Gen IIs - ViperClub Classifieds
Greg-TT
Viper Owner
+1 for Hawk pads. On my previous Gen 3 vert, I've tried all three
street app. Hawk pads. (Hawk Ceramic, Hawk HPS and Hawk HP Plus)
the favorite was HP Plus although they can be noisy and dusty.
A much better stopping power than Hawk Ceramic and HPS pads IMO...
street app. Hawk pads. (Hawk Ceramic, Hawk HPS and Hawk HP Plus)
the favorite was HP Plus although they can be noisy and dusty.
A much better stopping power than Hawk Ceramic and HPS pads IMO...
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I'm pleased with my EBC reds. Nearly 7K miles on them, a few track weekends. They don't dust nearly as much as the stock ones did, and worked just fine at the track. At TWS the car pulls 165 mph on the straight, so I'd say brakes get worked pretty well.
wallbanger
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Achilles99
Enthusiast
Nine Ball - I think you should try a set of track pads before saying reds will stop you I tried a set, and a bunch of cones disagree with your assessment lol.
Seriously, though. Reds will stop, just nowhere near as fast as track pads will (I use Mintex). Like most things, it's a matter of what your goals are. If you don't need those extra seconds, you don't need track pads. I find I can brake a LOT later with my Mintex pads on, but my rotors suffer for it.
I tried a set, and a bunch of cones disagree with your assessment lol.Seriously, though. Reds will stop, just nowhere near as fast as track pads will (I use Mintex). Like most things, it's a matter of what your goals are. If you don't need those extra seconds, you don't need track pads. I find I can brake a LOT later with my Mintex pads on, but my rotors suffer for it.
RobZilla
Enthusiast
Take my opinion for what it's worth I guess. I started with ebc reds when I got my car. The front rotors had been overheated from track use so the combination was marginal at best.
About 8 months ago I got new Gen II calipers and put Hawk HP plus pads in since I now had the Roe blower. The difference was phenominal. That could be for one or both reasons. The newer, never overheated calipers. Or the Hawk pads.
I think it is a combination of the two and highly recommend the Hawk HP plus pads over the EBC reds which I favored before I knew the difference.
Like Dave said there is hardly any brake dust from the EBC's. I have noticed slightly more from the Hawks, but even on the street, I wouldn't risk it. I tend to drive spirited waaaaay too often.
About 8 months ago I got new Gen II calipers and put Hawk HP plus pads in since I now had the Roe blower. The difference was phenominal. That could be for one or both reasons. The newer, never overheated calipers. Or the Hawk pads.
I think it is a combination of the two and highly recommend the Hawk HP plus pads over the EBC reds which I favored before I knew the difference.
Like Dave said there is hardly any brake dust from the EBC's. I have noticed slightly more from the Hawks, but even on the street, I wouldn't risk it. I tend to drive spirited waaaaay too often.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
Nine Ball - I think you should try a set of track pads before saying reds will stop you
Seriously, though. Reds will stop, just nowhere near as fast as track pads will (I use Mintex). Like most things, it's a matter of what your goals are. If you don't need those extra seconds, you don't need track pads. I find I can brake a LOT later with my Mintex pads on, but my rotors suffer for it.
I don't race competitively, and the Viper spends 95% of its life on the street. Even the stock pads worked well enough for me, I prefer the low dust of the reds. I've had race pads on other cars, and yes they work wonders. I just don't need them for this car.
mjorgensen Woodhouse
Enthusiast
I have run Brakeman, Porterfeild, Hawk, PFC and the Carbotech X series pads are what I USE. Stock many and can have most in a day or two.
The best thing about the Carbotech other than it's incredible braking and durability is the fact that the dust that is generated is "Non corrosive" to you wheels and paint. They have a number of compounds available to adjust the braking balance to what you like. Also have a street compound that is much more quiet and dusts less. Here is some info on the available compounds.
Let me know if you have any questions [email protected]
Brake Compounds
Carbotech™ Bobcat 1521™
The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser, and has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. Bobcat 1521™ compound has also been found to extend the life of your rotors 2-3 times. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.
Carbotech™ AX6™ (1106™)
The AX6™ takes the place of the Panther Plus™ compound that was so successful. AX6™ was specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range (50°F to 1150°F +). Advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial “bite”, high coefficient of friction, and very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. AX6™ offers high fade resistance, rotor friendliness at all temperatures, excellent cold stopping power, and non corrosive dust. As a result, AX6™ is an excellent choice for Autocross & AX6™ has gained tremendous popularity with SCCA Prosolo/Solo2 competitors for its fantastic bite, release & modulation. Many drivers use the AX6™ for street driving as well, even though Carbotech doesn’t recommend street driving with AX6™ due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6™ is NOT a race compound, and should not be used as such. AX6™ shouldn’t be used by any intermediate or advanced track day drivers, and should not be used with “R” compound tires (racing tires).
Carbotech XP8™ (1108™)
A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (200°F-1350°F+). Carbotech XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Outstanding initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance, very rotor friendly with 100% non-corrosive dust. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter ITA, ITB, ITC, SRF, H4, H5, and other cars that weigh less than 2,400lbs. Perfect for novice, intermediate and advanced track day (HPDE) use with any tire, and can still be driven safely to and from the track. There are several vehicles that use XP8™ on the street, autocross, and at track day (HPDE) events. Carbotech does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. XP8™ is also a great rear brake pad for almost any race car (Spec Miata-T1/T2/CMC). XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.
Carbotech™ XP10™ (1110™)
When Carbotech unleashed the XP10™ to the general public, and it was an instant success, gathering multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ is a very high initial bite friction material, with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1650°F. Due to the high level of friction and bite, this material is recommended for cars weighing around 2,000lbs or more, not including formula cars and cars with brake bias bars weighing less than 2,000lbs. This is the preferred compound for the front of Spec Miata racers, SSC,SSB, T3, SRF, ITS, ITE, H1,H2, H3, H4, 944 Cup, ST, GS, Factory Five Cobra’s and many more Grand-Am/ALMS/SCCA/NASA classes. XP10™ is also ideal for advanced/instructor level HPDE drivers. XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release and excellent modulation, rotor friendliness, and 100% non-corrosive dust that have made all Carbotech compounds so successful. XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP12™ (1112™)
The latest iteration of the highly successful XP™ series of compounds with an extremely high initial bite, torque and fade resistance than compound XP10™. XP12™ is a world leading friction compound that is unmatched as a Ceramic racing compound, with a temperature range of 250°F to 2000°F+. The XP12™ still has that excellent Carbotech release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech compounds so successful. The XP12™ is the most rotor aggressive compound Carbotech offers, but compared to the competition the XP12™ is still very rotor friendly and contains 100% non-corrosive dust. XP12™ is recommended only for expert/very advanced drivers. XP12™ is found to be most affective on race cars weighing 2,400lbs or more using R-Compound tires; or street cars weighing 3,200lbs or more for track use only. Ideal for LMP1, LMP2, DP, T1, T2, T3, H1, H2, GT1, GT2, GT3, TC, GT, ST, GS, MX-5 Cup, etc… XP12™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP16™ (1601™)
The second compound to be released this year from Carbotech. It is a step up from the highly successful XP12 compound. The XP16™ leads the highly touted XP™ series line of compounds from Carbotech. With an extremely, and we mean extremely high initial bite, torque and fade resistance than compound XP12™. XP16™ is a world leading friction compound that is unmatched as a Ceramic racing compound, with a temperature range of 250°F to 2000°F+. Carbotech XP16™ still has outstanding release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech compounds so successful. The XP16™ is the most rotor aggressive compound Carbotech makes, but compared to it's competition the XP16™ is still very rotor friendly and contains 100% non-corrosive dust. XP16™ is recommended only for expert/very advanced drivers. XP16™ is found to be most affective on race cars weighing 3,000lbs or more using R-Compound tires only. Ideal for sprint use only in classes such as T1, T2, H1, GT1, GT2, GT3, GT, GS, DP, P1, P2, etc… Not recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ 912 Kelated Metallic™
An advance organic-metallic compound specially formulated for drum shoe applications in lighter weight race cars and/or high performance street vehicles. High friction coefficient of 0.46 to 0.48, providing excellent braking without any risk of lock-up. Very good brake modulation throughout the entire brake pedal travel range, with excellent wear characteristics, providing an outstanding value. With a price-point significantly below other compounds offering similar performance, 912 ™ is an excellent choice for the budget-minded racer or high-performance driver. Optimal recommended operating temperature range is from ambient to 650°F.
Carbotech™ 913 Kelated Metallic™
A D.O.T.-approved high-performance compound for brake shoes on high performance street vehicles and race cars. Carbotech Kelated Metallic (CKM) achieves a very high coefficient of friction (approx. 0.48 to 0.50) by taking advantage of a chemical reaction within the friction mass, which creates a tri-alloy metallic film at the liner/drum interface when subjected to heat and pressure. Designed to overcome the shortcomings of other liner materials, CKM is a very versatile and provides excellent braking performance in a wide variety of applications. Excellent wear characteristics and a very high resistance to lock-up under hard braking. Optimal recommended operating temperature range is from ambient to 750°F.
The best thing about the Carbotech other than it's incredible braking and durability is the fact that the dust that is generated is "Non corrosive" to you wheels and paint. They have a number of compounds available to adjust the braking balance to what you like. Also have a street compound that is much more quiet and dusts less. Here is some info on the available compounds.
Let me know if you have any questions [email protected]
Brake Compounds
Carbotech™ Bobcat 1521™
The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser, and has won multiple SCCA Solo 2 and Prosolo National Championships. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. Bobcat 1521™ compound has also been found to extend the life of your rotors 2-3 times. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.
Carbotech™ AX6™ (1106™)
The AX6™ takes the place of the Panther Plus™ compound that was so successful. AX6™ was specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range (50°F to 1150°F +). Advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial “bite”, high coefficient of friction, and very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. AX6™ offers high fade resistance, rotor friendliness at all temperatures, excellent cold stopping power, and non corrosive dust. As a result, AX6™ is an excellent choice for Autocross & AX6™ has gained tremendous popularity with SCCA Prosolo/Solo2 competitors for its fantastic bite, release & modulation. Many drivers use the AX6™ for street driving as well, even though Carbotech doesn’t recommend street driving with AX6™ due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6™ is NOT a race compound, and should not be used as such. AX6™ shouldn’t be used by any intermediate or advanced track day drivers, and should not be used with “R” compound tires (racing tires).
Carbotech XP8™ (1108™)
A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range (200°F-1350°F+). Carbotech XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Outstanding initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance, very rotor friendly with 100% non-corrosive dust. Excellent as a front brake pad for lighter ITA, ITB, ITC, SRF, H4, H5, and other cars that weigh less than 2,400lbs. Perfect for novice, intermediate and advanced track day (HPDE) use with any tire, and can still be driven safely to and from the track. There are several vehicles that use XP8™ on the street, autocross, and at track day (HPDE) events. Carbotech does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. XP8™ is also a great rear brake pad for almost any race car (Spec Miata-T1/T2/CMC). XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.
Carbotech™ XP10™ (1110™)
When Carbotech unleashed the XP10™ to the general public, and it was an instant success, gathering multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ is a very high initial bite friction material, with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1650°F. Due to the high level of friction and bite, this material is recommended for cars weighing around 2,000lbs or more, not including formula cars and cars with brake bias bars weighing less than 2,000lbs. This is the preferred compound for the front of Spec Miata racers, SSC,SSB, T3, SRF, ITS, ITE, H1,H2, H3, H4, 944 Cup, ST, GS, Factory Five Cobra’s and many more Grand-Am/ALMS/SCCA/NASA classes. XP10™ is also ideal for advanced/instructor level HPDE drivers. XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release and excellent modulation, rotor friendliness, and 100% non-corrosive dust that have made all Carbotech compounds so successful. XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP12™ (1112™)
The latest iteration of the highly successful XP™ series of compounds with an extremely high initial bite, torque and fade resistance than compound XP10™. XP12™ is a world leading friction compound that is unmatched as a Ceramic racing compound, with a temperature range of 250°F to 2000°F+. The XP12™ still has that excellent Carbotech release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech compounds so successful. The XP12™ is the most rotor aggressive compound Carbotech offers, but compared to the competition the XP12™ is still very rotor friendly and contains 100% non-corrosive dust. XP12™ is recommended only for expert/very advanced drivers. XP12™ is found to be most affective on race cars weighing 2,400lbs or more using R-Compound tires; or street cars weighing 3,200lbs or more for track use only. Ideal for LMP1, LMP2, DP, T1, T2, T3, H1, H2, GT1, GT2, GT3, TC, GT, ST, GS, MX-5 Cup, etc… XP12™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ XP16™ (1601™)
The second compound to be released this year from Carbotech. It is a step up from the highly successful XP12 compound. The XP16™ leads the highly touted XP™ series line of compounds from Carbotech. With an extremely, and we mean extremely high initial bite, torque and fade resistance than compound XP12™. XP16™ is a world leading friction compound that is unmatched as a Ceramic racing compound, with a temperature range of 250°F to 2000°F+. Carbotech XP16™ still has outstanding release and modulation that has made all other Carbotech compounds so successful. The XP16™ is the most rotor aggressive compound Carbotech makes, but compared to it's competition the XP16™ is still very rotor friendly and contains 100% non-corrosive dust. XP16™ is recommended only for expert/very advanced drivers. XP16™ is found to be most affective on race cars weighing 3,000lbs or more using R-Compound tires only. Ideal for sprint use only in classes such as T1, T2, H1, GT1, GT2, GT3, GT, GS, DP, P1, P2, etc… Not recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
Carbotech™ 912 Kelated Metallic™
An advance organic-metallic compound specially formulated for drum shoe applications in lighter weight race cars and/or high performance street vehicles. High friction coefficient of 0.46 to 0.48, providing excellent braking without any risk of lock-up. Very good brake modulation throughout the entire brake pedal travel range, with excellent wear characteristics, providing an outstanding value. With a price-point significantly below other compounds offering similar performance, 912 ™ is an excellent choice for the budget-minded racer or high-performance driver. Optimal recommended operating temperature range is from ambient to 650°F.
Carbotech™ 913 Kelated Metallic™
A D.O.T.-approved high-performance compound for brake shoes on high performance street vehicles and race cars. Carbotech Kelated Metallic (CKM) achieves a very high coefficient of friction (approx. 0.48 to 0.50) by taking advantage of a chemical reaction within the friction mass, which creates a tri-alloy metallic film at the liner/drum interface when subjected to heat and pressure. Designed to overcome the shortcomings of other liner materials, CKM is a very versatile and provides excellent braking performance in a wide variety of applications. Excellent wear characteristics and a very high resistance to lock-up under hard braking. Optimal recommended operating temperature range is from ambient to 750°F.
Achilles99
Enthusiast
You know I'm just messing with you Nine Ball
I prefer stock over reds, and in fact run stock pads in the rear with mintex in the front. Mintex all around will lock the rears up. I think JonB told me once that I shouldn't run reds on the track, but I can't remember the exact reason.I've always wanted to try the Carbotechs, and heard that running one compound up front and a compound less in the rear works great. However, they chew up rotors on my friend's Supra badly. Marc, how do they treat the Viper rotors? Any idea how they treat the stoptech 2-piece rotors?
vancouver-gts
Viper Owner
I have Hawk HPS on the front of my 96 Mustang GT . Have 13" Brembo Cobra brakes up front and stock brakes & pads in the rear. They're stopping very good but dusting pretty good .
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