HELP ! Buying a Viper - Too Good To Be True ?

[Jonne]

I'm in a process to buy a Viper RT/10 2000. It's for sale by a dodge dealer, and the price is quite a bargain - $58,600. The car looks and run's OK, has 9500 miles, no scratces, paint work, etc - red beauty with connolly leather. Tires are 20% left, front breakbads seems to be wearn out, maybe needs to be chanhged soon. The clutch feels Ok as well and no oil leaks from the engine. I checked the carfax, no information available at all, but not a lemon either. The title is clear, however the dealer told me it's one owner car, but the information I pulled out from the service department shows the car was sold originally in Maryland(Antwerpen Dodge) to David Banton, and the original owner name is different than the current owner name Deryl Leon - so it looks like the car came from Maryland to FL. Car is located now in FL. The warranty coverage shows there was a warranty repair(door) done by Antwerpen Dodge, which is in Virginia(close Maryland) - so it's makes sense the first owner was in Maryland, not here in FL. The title is also a duplicate, so I have no idea, where the original is, and what name was there. The Dodge dealer told me, they usually get a duplicate title, when they buy these type of cars, so they do not need to wait weeks the original title from the owner - owner just inform the title was lost. To believe the Dodge or not ? This car is listed $6k lower than other similar cars - why, because Dodge made a good deal, bad economy, etc ?, or is/was there something wrong with the car before, salvage etc. Any ideas ? As I said, "outside" the car looks fine, and this is my opportunity to buy one, but is it too good to be true? Vin: 1B3ER65E1YV604952

 

[Mark F]

-Having just bought a '97 GTS last month, I still have less than a week left on my second 60 day Carfax account, so I ran a query on your VIN for you. While the data they provide may not be complete enough for some of us, this time the Carfax folks had zero information (the response was "Carfax© has no data available on the VIN you supplied, 1B3ER65E1YV604952"). I've never encountered this response before, and it seems strange to neophyte Viper buyer like me.

 

[wiseasp]

I bought my car from Antwerpen Dodge in Clarksville, Maryland. What a bunch of characters

I do know that they ship most of there Vipers out to various states. You can probably call the service department and see if they know anything about the car. Call 1-800-521-8696 and ask for DODGE service.

I hope this helps.

ROB

 

[Hisser]

I would say if you do buy it just make sure you get the extended warranty to cover yourself. Official Dodge dealers really dont deal with reconditioned titles so your probably ok on that but I would still make sure. If there is only 20 percent tread left you can bet he used that car to its fullest.

 

[Steve-Indy]

I HATE to be a spoiler...but MUST say that I personally would not recommend that you but THIS particular Viper at THIS time. From your description, sounds like this puppy HAS been driven HARD...tires and pads gone!!! I agree about NEEDING extended warranty, and I am NOT SURE that you can get one/transfer one if you would be 3rd owner (need a little dealer help here). That said, if you are a VERY good mechanic and have the resources to handle whatever comes up, and can really check this car over AND are still happy, and you can be SURE of it's title and number of previous owners, do what you are comfortable doing. There are a lot of honest, clean, non-abused Vipers out there...and dealing with a high Viper-volume, honest, dealer is the best way to go in my opinion. Our Club members have been very happy when a problem does arise and the dealer GOES TO BAT FOR THEM with Dodge...something that does not happen when you buy from a private party or broker regardless our how honest and well intentioned they may be. This can even be a problem when you buy from a low volume Dodge dealer. The amount of clout, and therefore EFFECTIVE dealer assistance does seem to be correlate to volume/involvement in the Viper program in my experience and opinion. When you do buy, JOIN the VCA...more help and more clout if a problem arises.

 

[Janni]

I would seriously wonder if this car was hit at some point in its short life. No one gets out of a 2000 RT for $50K (which is the MOST that dealer has in it. Why not ask a VCA memeber to take a very discriminating view of this car. Put it up on a lift and take a VERY HARD LOOK AT THE FRAME and other components from underneath. I have yet to see a wrecked car that has been rebuilt to the "original" so that you couldn't tell- or at least a GOOD VIPER TECH couldn't tell (Take it there and have an independent Viper tech at ANOTHER DEALER look it over). The folks in FLorida or the VCA President for your FLorida region can give you guidance on a good tech. Good luck.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

If you are not sure about the car's condition, I would be weary. Goto another Dealership and have them do a (I think function 14) on the vin#. It will pull up repair history at any dodge or chrysler dealership. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERN, CARFAX IS USELESS!!!If you wrecked your car and you didn't want anyone to know..take it to a non dealership body shop and they can fix it with out it being reported. CarFax is not reliable.

 

[slaughterj]

It should have at least bare minimum info in carfax. I had checked a # for someone else (Jason?) that didn't come up, had him confirm it, got the correct #, and then the search worked. I'd check the # again if it was not working in carfax.

 

[Jonne]

I'm glad to receive so many replies and tips - it feels like belonging to a big family. So back to the car. I requested twice the service history from this dealer. Twice they gave me the warranty repairs, but that's all. I went to another Dodge dealer, and they pulled out the rest of the information i.e the car was sold in Maryland for it's 1st owner - per my understanding the "Original Owner Name" in the vehicle information report(from the service dep.) means the person who took the first delivery. The second owner is in Miami, unless there was 10's more, since the title is duplicate. I'm pretty sure the dealer knows this, but why they give me headache with all this B.S, that the car has 1 owner. The more I find out, the more pis..off they are. And What a bunch of characters they are - I have 5 salespersons flying around like horse flies. One is tellig they bought the car came from a Chrysler auction, another one said it was a trade in. I think this is just the way they do business - I relocated to States 2 years ago from Finland. Honestly I wouldn't buy even a bubblegum from them, but I really like the car and it's still under factory warranty till 4/2003. The only concern is, why they are selling the car so low, and what is the real story behind.

 

[Janni]

STOP! I'll bet the Florida law says a car totaled in Florida has to have the plate affixed. It is VERY EASY to "wash" a title by transferring it to another state where the laws regarding marking of titles / cars are looser. So, just because a car doesn't have the Florida "total tag" does not necessarily mean it is OK. There are too many people that know the ins and outs of cleaning a title to take these things at face value. Take the car to an offsite, GOOD (read - VCA recommended) Viper Tech and have it checked out THOROUGHLY. It'll be the best money you ever spend. Take a VCA member with you, too, you'll find out some interesting tidbits.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[JonB]

Some History:
Preped at Antwerpen Dodge 6/21/2000.
"Warranty appeal" Chesterfield Dodge 8/18/2000. No prob found.
Moroone Dodge for front rt/left brake repairs 1/10/01.
Car still in warranty.
No service contract in force at this time.

Florida appears to be notorious for cheaper Vipers !

 

[Jay Herbert]

Remember, you'll be out $1300 for tires, $175 for EBC pads and (likey) $200 for Rotors. Have the car looked over, Doug Levin would be a good person. I'm sure Ivan ** (Miami regional Prez) can recommend a dealer as well. On the warranty, I think it can only be transferred once from the first owner.... better make sure on that one.

 

[Jonne]

Guess what - after receiving from VCA members many tips, advices,car history, owner history - you name it, I was able to track down the prior owner here in Florida. The guy called me just an hour ago, and explained the hole history of the car. The car was sold 5/2000 to Sarasota, and he bought the car from Sarasota 12/2000, and he is 2nd owner, not exactly what the dealer told me, so in this case I would be 3rd owner. Is there any limitations, regarding the factory warranty, which is still valid ? I think it goes with the car, and do not need any transfer.

However, this guy had the car only 8 months, he is 23 !, but what he told me, he never abused the car....hmmmm. He just can not afford 2 cars at the moment. He is also member of the local Viper Club organization in Miami - VCA South Florida. He bought the car for $64K, sold it to a dealer for $56(trade in), and is for sale now for $58,6K by dealer. The front break's are brand new - rotors, calibers, break pads, etc(1/2001) by warranty....so I was wrong Ooops

Other basic service has been done(oil change). The guy also installed K&N filters and smooth tubes, to make the car run cooler with some extra HP - otherwise evrything else is original. He also installed Viper 700 alarm to the car....Hey remember O.J. moved here from LA, and is living in Miami

He mentioned, that the only small "scratches" the car has are under the side skirts and front spoiler, which are pretty normal. The car has the original hard top and soft top, 9500 miles, but hey, we are living in the Sunhine State. This guy told me the car was in excellent condition, when he left the car to the dealer.

Summa Summarum, I feel much more safer, after receiving all valuable information from VCA members. After I spoke with the owner, I feel pretty much OK with the car, however it is still good idea to get the car inspected by a technician - and I think the price is not so bad either.

Many Thanks,
Jonne

 

[Kid97GTS]

Although you still have the factory warranty in effect and you are purchasing from a Dodge dealer, I'd still think twice about the purchase. A lot of Viper owners seem to be pretty fanatical about the car, so there tend to be a lot of great cars with low miles that have been over-detailed their entire life - kinda like buying a used M3. I'd say it's better to look for the fanatical club member more concerned with cosmetics than racing the car who will be more than happy to show you service records, maintenance tips, etc. Fortunately, there are lots of these type of persons that own Vipers. Keep looking for that one Viper fanatic owner looking to trade in his 2000 for a 2003 - given the current economy, you are likely to be able to negotiate a pretty good price on a mint car. It's out there, don't be impatient.

 

[MES]

If your in Boca check with Doug Levin in Miami to see if he can take a look at your potential new Viper. He is just about the best tuner around and a really nice guy too.

DOUG LEVIN MOTORSPORTS
349 North West 170th Street
North Miami Beach, Florida 33169

Phone: (305) 249-RACE (7223)
FAX: (305) 249-VIPE (8473)
Email: [email protected]

http://douglevinmotorsports.com/

 

[Jonne]

<FONT COLOR="Red">THE CAR WAS WRECKED VAND PAINTED - STILL LOOKING FOR ANOTHER ONE</FONT c>


<FONT COLOR="BLUE">I HAD TO PULL MY OFFER BACK AFTER I NOTICED THE CAR WAS WRECKED HEAVILY AND PAINTED. WHAT I LEARN IS GOOD TO BE PATIENT WITH THESE TYPE OF CARS.</FONT c>

 

[Jonne]

Thanks for your tips and reply Vipermap. There was/is another wrecked car also. This is for sale by <FONT COLOR="Blue">www.ecocar.com</FONT c>
They sell rebuilt, salvage and other garbage. This Viper is -99 Black/Brown RT/10 with clean title, but hit ******* the front. The front bumber and hood has been replaced. I noticed around 3-4 weeks ago the car was for sale by Ebay. I sent an e-mail to the seller, just to tell him, why he can advertise the car as a perfect one - never been hit, painted, etc - he just replied he is a broker, and if I dont like the car, do not buy the car. I hope nobody bought this one. Most of the owners are great guys, and Viper is kind a "dream of your lifetime", that you save money for, buy it, and take care of it. Personally I feel very pi...ed off, if somebody is bying a car in a belief, that the car is perfect and it's not.

 

[phiebert]

Jonne, how did you find out the car was wrecked? Did you have it inspected? Could they prove it was wrecked? Do you think the previous owner you talked to know that and lie to you? What a pile of crap, keep your chin up, I'm sure you'll end up with a much better car!

 

[SEASNAKE]

My Viper tech told me about a car here in Wilmington, NC that was also a 2000 Viper (no hardtop) that another local dealer tried to sell to him for 58000. I don't know any more than that, but you could contact Tom Sessions at 910-799-4210. Maybe he could get the VIN from you. They also have a 2001 Yellow RT w/hardtop in stock.