whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
I have a Gen 1 that no longer blows cold air. how hard is it to recharge an AC system and what exactly is involved? I have never done this before but was hoping I could do it myself. any imput will be appreciated.
Help Recharging theAir Conditioning System
- Thread starter whitebluevipe
- Start date
dave6666
Enthusiast
Funny. I just bought a set of gauges today to charge my '01.
What's involved?
I did buy the gauges as just mentioned, that includes a few extra goodies like the can tap, hoses and R134 adapters, and a handy thermometer to measure the air and compare it to the chart they supply. A performance thing to look at.
You can also just go the the store and buy a charge kit and dump in a can. Probably 10 to 15 bucks.
What's involved?
I did buy the gauges as just mentioned, that includes a few extra goodies like the can tap, hoses and R134 adapters, and a handy thermometer to measure the air and compare it to the chart they supply. A performance thing to look at.
You can also just go the the store and buy a charge kit and dump in a can. Probably 10 to 15 bucks.
viperdude118
Viper Owner
Gen I's could have R12 also, that is about the time when cars were being switched over. If it is, you'll probably have to do a conversion.
Sweet Ride
Enthusiast
Your best bet is to use/borrow an a/c machine.
It can be done without one like Dave said. Carefully follow the instructions that come on the can and/or hoses and you should be ok.
Do you know if there is a leak in the system?
Does the a/c clutch cycle on and off?
Is the condensor plugged up with dirt?
What is the temperature blowing out of the vents compared to the ambient air temp entering the condensor?
Does the cooling fan behind the radiator work properly?
Answers to any/all of these questions can help diagnose the issue. Good luck!
It can be done without one like Dave said. Carefully follow the instructions that come on the can and/or hoses and you should be ok.
Do you know if there is a leak in the system?
Does the a/c clutch cycle on and off?
Is the condensor plugged up with dirt?
What is the temperature blowing out of the vents compared to the ambient air temp entering the condensor?
Does the cooling fan behind the radiator work properly?
Answers to any/all of these questions can help diagnose the issue. Good luck!
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
My '94 Gen 1 is R-136a. The simple kit comes with a hose and gauge. You run the AC while charging and watch the pressure gauge. The instructions will tell you how high the pressure should get when it is full depending on the ambient temperature.
If the AC compressor doesn't come on at all, you need a paper clip to bridge the low pressure cut-out switch. This forces the compressor to come on any way. The switch is in the drier at the passenger footbox. Pull off the connector and bridge the two pins in the connector to turn the compressor on. Run the AC while charging since the pressure you are looking at is on the suction side. Without the system "sucking" the r-136a out of the can, you will get a false (high ) reading.
Get a *** of hot water to rest the r-136a can in. The heat will push all the "gas" out of the can and you will know when it is empty because it floats. Also, you can easily feel the cold liquid in the can if there is still some left.
The o-rings sealing the hoses to the compressor are the most likely source of leaks because of how hot it gets. It gets hot enough to physically burn your hand and stiffens the o-rings. It takes some acrobatics, but replacing them solved my annual leakage-fillage problem. You can get an assortment of sizes in a kit from an auto parts store for a few bucks. I think to completely fill the system is 3 cans. You might want to get one with the added lubricant if the system has been inoperable for a while.
You can do it yourself. Just "think" about the open-close valve and the connection to the car before you disconnect stuff.
If the AC compressor doesn't come on at all, you need a paper clip to bridge the low pressure cut-out switch. This forces the compressor to come on any way. The switch is in the drier at the passenger footbox. Pull off the connector and bridge the two pins in the connector to turn the compressor on. Run the AC while charging since the pressure you are looking at is on the suction side. Without the system "sucking" the r-136a out of the can, you will get a false (high ) reading.
Get a *** of hot water to rest the r-136a can in. The heat will push all the "gas" out of the can and you will know when it is empty because it floats. Also, you can easily feel the cold liquid in the can if there is still some left.
The o-rings sealing the hoses to the compressor are the most likely source of leaks because of how hot it gets. It gets hot enough to physically burn your hand and stiffens the o-rings. It takes some acrobatics, but replacing them solved my annual leakage-fillage problem. You can get an assortment of sizes in a kit from an auto parts store for a few bucks. I think to completely fill the system is 3 cans. You might want to get one with the added lubricant if the system has been inoperable for a while.
You can do it yourself. Just "think" about the open-close valve and the connection to the car before you disconnect stuff.
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
Well guess what. You are probably in for a repair job. I just brought my gen 2 in today for the same problem. A year ago my 99 ac quit blowing cold and when I brought it to my tech he said this is a common problem as the ac lines/connections become loose or wear due to the vibration etc. He said to just charge it each year and save money or get it fixed. After 6 months, no cold ac. The 2 lines run under the car and parts are cheap but the labor is several hours. Pick up tomorrow with a total price of just under $1000.00
dave6666
Enthusiast
HEY!!! I'm thinking the 90 bucks for hose and gauges from Robinair is my ticket. No more $1000 statements!!!
I like Tom's ideas though. I do have o-rings and skill...
I like Tom's ideas though. I do have o-rings and skill...
DaytonaViper
Viper Owner
I also had the o-ring failure and replaced them myself. Leak was easily spotted at hose when I refilled with a can of r134. Used the cans to refill the system after repair, but it never reached the cold air temperature I expected. Took it to sears and had it vacuumed/refilled. Much colder now........
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whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
i guess i was just wondering if i could easily start with putting in a can of r134 in the system to start with that and see if it works?
"R-136a" is interesting.
Our 95 and 96 Gen I's use R-134a.
As Tom said, it may take 3 cans (small)...I usually buy the kit for about $30-40...contains a couple of cans and a guage...note that there is dye for leak detection in many.. READ the cans carefully!!
Our 95 and 96 Gen I's use R-134a.
As Tom said, it may take 3 cans (small)...I usually buy the kit for about $30-40...contains a couple of cans and a guage...note that there is dye for leak detection in many.. READ the cans carefully!!
dave6666
Enthusiast
Is the dye a bad thing? Will it hurt the compressor or other seals and stuff?
I don't think that is a problem...but I think that you are supposed to let the tech know about the dye (not that you can't SEE IT around the low pressure port !!!) BEFORE he does a recovery of your refrigerant at a later time.
Seems that some of the cannisters have a different level of compressor oil mix as well...at least by my memory.
Seems that some of the cannisters have a different level of compressor oil mix as well...at least by my memory.
dave6666
Enthusiast
On the oil... Assuming you can't spot the leak by the oil stained joint or whatever, should you assume you have not lost any oil and do freon only? I know there's a minimum desired oil amount, but too much can be bad also right?
So any rules of thumb here, for those just charging for now?
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
uh... R-136a is 2 better than R-134a? oops.. 
Sweet Ride
Enthusiast
We add dye into all of the trucks in our fleet. Dye is ok for all appplications that I know of. The dye leaves a stain on whatever it hits or leaks out of. You then use a black light and yellow glasses to see the dye.
Check your low and high side valves as well. Most are a Schrader valve and over time they can loosen up a bit. It takes a special tool to turn them back in.
The other thing is that if you have leak, you may be getting air into the system and with most air comes moisture. Moisture will make any a/c system run poorly. The system should be completely evacuted and vacuumed down before charging.
Dave is right as well. Too much oil will cause the system to run very poorly or even destroy a compressor. Generally, we only add oil to the fleet vehicles if they have had a complete system failure. If you do add oil, I would recommend not adding much more than 2 oz. There should be a sticker on the car that says how much oil and refrigerant should be in the a/c system.
One more thing about charging with the cans... You can assume that there is 16 oz. of refrigerant in the cans but without an a/c machine or correct guages, you don't really know how much is currently in the system. It's generally best to take the vehicle to someone that has an a/c machine. Even if it needs work, you can have them **** everything out of the sytem, take the car home and do the work yourself. When you are done, take it back and have it vacuumed down and recharged.
Check your low and high side valves as well. Most are a Schrader valve and over time they can loosen up a bit. It takes a special tool to turn them back in.
The other thing is that if you have leak, you may be getting air into the system and with most air comes moisture. Moisture will make any a/c system run poorly. The system should be completely evacuted and vacuumed down before charging.
Dave is right as well. Too much oil will cause the system to run very poorly or even destroy a compressor. Generally, we only add oil to the fleet vehicles if they have had a complete system failure. If you do add oil, I would recommend not adding much more than 2 oz. There should be a sticker on the car that says how much oil and refrigerant should be in the a/c system.
One more thing about charging with the cans... You can assume that there is 16 oz. of refrigerant in the cans but without an a/c machine or correct guages, you don't really know how much is currently in the system. It's generally best to take the vehicle to someone that has an a/c machine. Even if it needs work, you can have them **** everything out of the sytem, take the car home and do the work yourself. When you are done, take it back and have it vacuumed down and recharged.
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AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
I've done a lot of A/C repairs on my daily driver....the main hoses go too close to moving or rotating parts and eventually (125k and 140k), both those hoses developed holes. I added the dye in the kits you buy at any parts store and used the black light and voila, I knew where the leak was. I removed those hoses, bought new ones and installed them, then recharged the system using the guages the kit provided. I put enough refrigerant (134a) in the system to be near the top of the Green area and now it works just fine.
Once you've done it once, you'll be fixing every family and neighbor's A/C system....so don't let anyone know how proud you are of figuring this out for yourself.
Oh yeah and if someone gives you a hard time about the 134a leaking out (and its environment impact on the ozone layer), the symptom of your A/C not working meant the 134a already leaked out....so too bad. The partially used cans of 134a can be safely stored for the next time you need them.
Regards,
Aaron
Once you've done it once, you'll be fixing every family and neighbor's A/C system....so don't let anyone know how proud you are of figuring this out for yourself.
Oh yeah and if someone gives you a hard time about the 134a leaking out (and its environment impact on the ozone layer), the symptom of your A/C not working meant the 134a already leaked out....so too bad. The partially used cans of 134a can be safely stored for the next time you need them.
Regards,
Aaron
Snap-On offers a VERY COOL TOOL for changing the valve core on the Schrader valves while system is OFF but still partially/completely pressurized.
UPDATE: The tool is "R-12/R-134a Master Kit"...part number ACT 1297.
UPDATE: The tool is "R-12/R-134a Master Kit"...part number ACT 1297.
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hou99gts
Enthusiast
My A/C is not blowing cold this year either, and I would like to fix it myself. Where (and what) is the best recharge kit to buy? Would any of you guys be willing to do a "How To" for the forum for us folks who have not done it before with more detail??? 
Have gotten my R-134a at Advanced Auto...called "Arctic Freeze" and "Big Chill"...ALL made by "id" which is "interdynamics".
The guage/hose/ connector will ONLY fit the low pressure side,
Follow the directions on the can and you should be fine (as long as the guage is OK...these cheap, disposable things ane not meant to last for too many uses).
As a back-up, I do cross-check pressures with a Snap-On set fot R-134a systems if things "don't seem right".
The guage/hose/ connector will ONLY fit the low pressure side,
Follow the directions on the can and you should be fine (as long as the guage is OK...these cheap, disposable things ane not meant to last for too many uses).
As a back-up, I do cross-check pressures with a Snap-On set fot R-134a systems if things "don't seem right".
Johann
Viper Owner
I am by no means an A/C expert but I have found that R134 systems are much more sensitive to correct quantity than R12 systems, if the quantity is lower or higher than than the system calls for it won't be optimum.
That's why it's a good idea to completely evaquate the system and recharge with the exact quantity called for in the book; just "topping off" a system is a hit-or-miss proposition even if gauge readings are within limits.
That's why it's a good idea to completely evaquate the system and recharge with the exact quantity called for in the book; just "topping off" a system is a hit-or-miss proposition even if gauge readings are within limits.
whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
i guess i picked the right tpme of year to bring up this subject...lol
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
I don't mean to come across poo-poo-ing the folks recommending a visit to a qualified technician with proper gauges, but there is a procedure in chapter 24 of the Dodge service manual and explicit suction side pressures depending on ambient temperatures. The low pressure cutoff switch is also the high pressure switch, so there is a high side protection system also. The Gen 1 capacity is 30 oz, so don't add more than three cans!
The suction side pressure is what the gauge is reading. In "Adding Partial Refrigerant Charge" it says to jump the pressure cut-off switch (to force the compressor on if there is not enough r-134a in the system), charge until the sight glass is clear and then add 8 oz additional refrigerant. How many people like me used to stop when the bubbles were gone?
You always have the triple check (after the bubbles) of what the pressure gauge says and what the air temp at the center outlet is.
If there is a little pressure (push the schrader valve pin) then air cannot have gotten into the system.
I'm with Aaron - if it works reliably at only 95% efficiency, that's a lot better than not running.
The suction side pressure is what the gauge is reading. In "Adding Partial Refrigerant Charge" it says to jump the pressure cut-off switch (to force the compressor on if there is not enough r-134a in the system), charge until the sight glass is clear and then add 8 oz additional refrigerant. How many people like me used to stop when the bubbles were gone?
You always have the triple check (after the bubbles) of what the pressure gauge says and what the air temp at the center outlet is.
If there is a little pressure (push the schrader valve pin) then air cannot have gotten into the system.
I'm with Aaron - if it works reliably at only 95% efficiency, that's a lot better than not running.
dave6666
Enthusiast
Good Job Tom! Yes, there is a complete chapter in my manual on the AC, and yes I anxiously await my Robinair gauge kit I bought off Amazon for $90so I'll have the correct tools to not give a completely "blind" charge. Will I be happy being a 95 percenter? You bet I will.
Still looking for R136A at the chain stores though...
Still looking for R136A at the chain stores though...
whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
thanks for all the input. it seems there is alot to a/c. i guess i am going to rephrase my question a bit. would i hurt anything or be a bad isea to put a can of Napa R134 a quick cool that has
Product Features:12 oz R-134a Refrigerant
2.0 oz PAG Oil To Lubricate & Quiet Noisy Compressors
1.0 oz Cool Down To Improve Cooling Up To 10%
O-Ring Conditioner To Improve Durability
Stop Leak & Red Dye To Mark Le
to the low side and see if this works?
Product Features:12 oz R-134a Refrigerant
2.0 oz PAG Oil To Lubricate & Quiet Noisy Compressors
1.0 oz Cool Down To Improve Cooling Up To 10%
O-Ring Conditioner To Improve Durability
Stop Leak & Red Dye To Mark Le
to the low side and see if this works?
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
If you are really low you might need a second can but without the added PAG. Go for it and let us know!
hou99gts
Enthusiast
Thank you for the kit information!
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
Just had my AC on my 95 repaired by a local shop that does our fleet vehicles. He charged me a whopping $58 to vaccum charge to the manufacturer's specs, presssure tested it, found a leak in the valve where you fill it and replaced that. Blows very cold now.
Would not be a far drive for you and he would do it for you while you wait, he even has Saturday hours. Just a thought.
Ed
Would not be a far drive for you and he would do it for you while you wait, he even has Saturday hours. Just a thought.
Ed
dave6666
Enthusiast
Checked my service valves with my leak detector whilst waiting on the other service equipment I've got on order.
Hmm...
Hmm...
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Yup, same issue with my 98 RT/10. Just picked up car from Tator's about three weeks ago. Changed all fluids including recharge of a/c. Blew nice and cold when picked up and next time I drove it about a week later.
Took it out last week and voila.....warm air.
Took out again Monday, just to double check and, you guessed it, warm air.
Called Chuck and car goes in for a thorough A/C system check on the 18th. I had a similar problem on my 911 and it was the lines actually being slightly porus and the gas would leak out over a short period of time.
I don't have any choice but to replace lines if that is what it is, as I am not going to fill it up every few weeks.
Maybe I'll be lucky and its an O-ring or gasket where the lines connect or even (NOT) a line that got loose.
Keep y'all posted.
PETER
_____________________
1998 RT/10, Viper Red
(5k miles) "Tatorized"
FIREFIGHTERS SAVE LIVES AND PROPERTY
SUPPORT TATORS DODGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just picked up car from Tator's about three weeks ago. Changed all fluids including recharge of a/c. Blew nice and cold when picked up and next time I drove it about a week later.Took it out last week and voila.....warm air.
Took out again Monday, just to double check and, you guessed it, warm air.Called Chuck and car goes in for a thorough A/C system check on the 18th. I had a similar problem on my 911 and it was the lines actually being slightly porus and the gas would leak out over a short period of time.
I don't have any choice but to replace lines if that is what it is, as I am not going to fill it up every few weeks.
Maybe I'll be lucky and its an O-ring or gasket where the lines connect or even (NOT) a line that got loose.Keep y'all posted.
PETER
_____________________
1998 RT/10, Viper Red
(5k miles) "Tatorized"FIREFIGHTERS SAVE LIVES AND PROPERTYSUPPORT TATORS DODGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
well i put a can of napa r-134a quick cool in the line tonight. the a/c became colder. then i put half a can of ID r-134a w/ leak sealer in. the a/c is so cold i need a parka. we will see how long it lasts. i did go for a ride tonight and actually had to turn the a/c down because it was so cold. i guess there is something to be said for dumb luck.
