Help with Installing Mopar Rockers

[SYNFULL]

I have a set ordered (Mike 99RT10)and would like to do the install myself (just beacuse I enjoy working on the Viper). I have some mechanical experience (exhaust gaskets, new wires and plugs, new rotors and stainless lines), but have never done rockers- although I have had the valve covers off just to see what the looked like.
I have searched on this subject but all I found was a 8cyl install of the harland sharps. I know the T&D's are a little differant being shaft mounted.
If anyone knows of a step by step, or can go over some of the finer details like setting zero lash??
Also, I read that the pushrods need to be measured and possibly changed. Do I just measure the stock pushrods and get the same size??
Any and all pointers would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks
Gary

 

[SYNFULL]

 

[Joseph Dell]

A whole 6 hrs w/o a response!!!

The instructions are quite good w the rockers, so have no fear. You will need a pushrod length checker OR borrow a couple of pushrods (different sizes) from your local viper people.

Zero lash is that point (when both valves are closed and the lifters are just hangin' out) where the pushrod is just barely seated between the lifter and the rocker. Old-school way of setting it was to twist the pushrod with one hand right until you feel the pushrod catch on the lifter. Others wiggle the rocker until you just can't wiggle it (no metal-on-metal movement).

-install rockers
-make sure valvetrain geometry is correct.
-put cyl #1 at top dead center on the intake stroke.
-find "zero lash" then turn 1 1/8 full turns of adjustment screw.
-tighten all screws

Some vary the amount of turns after zero lash (from 0 to 2). 2 is too much b/c the valves don't close. 0 is noisy. looser equals more power though.

When you get them, this will all make sense.

Go buy a $12 bump starter. That will make your life easier.

Btw- when you get comfortable with this, you can adjust all 20 valves in 10-15 min max.

Good luck!

JD

 

[SYNFULL]

Thanks Joe, I was told you were the man to ask if I had any questions. I was also told the rockers I am buying don't ship with any instructions. They are supposed to be a new set (from 99RT/10).
If anyone has a copy of the instructions I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Gary

 

[newredrt10]

One more point. The adjuster must be 1 1/2 turns from the top limit and bottom limit of travel If your within this 1 1/2 turns top or bottom you may not get the correct oiling for the rockers. That is why pushrod lenghth is neeed.

 

[Joseph Dell]

newredrt- The adjustment has lots of flexibility since these are hydraulic lifters. If you go ZERO turns from the top, your valvetrain will be a little loud but you won't hurt anything. if you go too much, the valves won't close all the way and the car will misfire. but that is the beauty of hydraulic lifters... there is pleanty of margin for error.

Gary - you'll get the hang of it once you do the 1st few. it isn't hard at all. just intimidating. if you are wonding "how do i find top dead center", you watch the valves open and close and stick a 3/8" extension in the plug hole and watch the piston push up the extension. when it hits the top, you'll know (and you'll get a feel for this as well).

My 1st time, I had to have someone come over to show me how to do it. my 1st valve pair took 10 minutes. they did the remaining 9 in less than 10 minutes TOTAL.

good luck!

 

[Mccarlin]

While we are on this topic...

JD, once you have aftermarket rockers installed do they have to be checked and or adjusted after a while? Do they losen up or change at all over time? if thats the case then i would want to do them myself and learn all this, otherwise i wouldnt want to be ball tied to a shop and have them adjust it

 

[Joseph Dell]

You shouldn't ever have to re-adjust the rockers once they are together. It's good to know how to do it, but it isn't required.

 

[SYNFULL]

Joe,
So I find TDC on the intake stroke of each pair of rockers and then do the zero lash?
How do I measure for the pushrods? Do they just have to fit right when everything is adjusted?
Thanks
gary

 

[Joseph Dell]

Yes on 1. Get a pushrod length checker (appx $7.99 at autozone or get one from summit racing, as compcams makes a good one). Yes on 3. if the rods are too long or too short, it just plain won't fit!

 

[newredrt10]

newredrt- The adjustment has lots of flexibility since these are hydraulic lifters. If you go ZERO turns from the top, your valvetrain will be a little loud but you won't hurt anything. if you go too much, the valves won't close all the way and the car will misfire. but that is the beauty of hydraulic lifters... there is pleanty of margin for error

Joe

I was told that the oil will not pass through the adjustment screw into the rocker is the reason the adjustment must be away from the ends. I got this from several tuners and viper tec's.

 

[Joseph Dell]

probably fear. never heard of nor seen a failure due to this, and as long as your pushrod length is correct there won't/shouldn't be any issues.

 

[Blue Streak]

What about shims? How do you know if you need to use those?

 

[99 R/T 10]

The geometry needs to be check. Most of the time, on stocker heads, shims are not required. If the heads have been milled, it's more likely.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Joseph, maybe you can help me with a question that has been bothering me.
Why isn't there a standard length push rod required for RR's. I mean I can understand that T&D's maybe different from say Harlands. But can someone tell me why there seems to be a difference between two engines that are supposably the same.
For example: Two Gen 2 cars both using T&D RR's may require different lengths of push rods.

 

[Joseph Dell]

the best 'guess' I can make (and this was true in the mustang world) is that the stamped rockers aren't actually very precise. they aren't consistently 1.65 (or is it 1.6... whatever they are suppose to be). there is variation. And margin for installation error. when you go to something more precise (like the T&D), you don't have the same margin for error. In fact, it isn't unusual to need different length pushrods for different cylinders! #1 and #2 on my car are different length than the other 8 cylinders...

JD

 

[LETHAL GTS]

Thanks.

 

[SYNFULL]

So the T&D's are "adjustable" rockers? Do I need to bring each cylinder to TDC to remove the old rockers?
I found these directions for installing a set of Crower Rockers. Will this work for the T&D's?


e) Adjust valves in pairs, using the following rule:

i) Adjust INTAKE rocker arm as the EXHAUST valve starts to OPEN

ii) Adjust the EXHAUST rocker arm as the INTAKE valve starts to CLOSE

iii) This procedure makes sure that the rocker to be adjusted has its corresponding lifter on the base circle of the cam, so that the valve is fully closed. Note that you do not have to know where Top Dead Center is or the firing order. This procedure works for every OHV engine that I'm aware of.

f) Adjust the rocker arm as follows:

i) Use one hand to lightly grip the pushrod and twirl it as you use the other hand to tighten the poly lock nut. You will notice that the pushrod gets noticeable harder or impossible to twirl as you tighten the poly lock. Stop at this point and:

ii) Turn the poly lock nut ¾ of a turn more with a 5/8" socket. You should begin to feel some resistance as you do so.

iii) Tighten the set screw.

iv) Tighten the poly lock (yes, it should already be pretty well locked down by the previous step) with your socket wrench applying about 15 ft-lbs torque. I do this just as insurance, as it tightens things just a bit more than is possible by tightening the set screw alone. It should turn no more than maybe 1/16th of a turn.

g) When all ten rocker arms are done, visually check everything to make sure the pushrods are seated in the rocker arms, rocker arm tips securely centered on valve stems and poly locks tight.

Will this procedure work or is it differant for the Crowers?
Thanks for all the help!

 

[Joseph Dell]

Nope. Well, not exactly. Plus, the crowers break vipers, so be weary.

You adjust both valves when you are at TDC on the intake compression stroke.

Also, do 1, then 3, 5, 7, then 9 then switch sides and do 2 then 4,6,8,10. if you do them in that order, when you go from 1 to 3, 3 is already on the compression stroke so you don't have far to go. then 5 to 7 to 9... same deal.

 

[Blue Streak]

Where do you get a valvetrain geometry checker?

 

[SYNFULL]

What about the oil baffles in the valve covers. Will they fit with these or do they need to be modified?

 

[SYNFULL]

I have started the install of the t&d rockers and have a few question. I found tdc on cylinder 1, then removed the stock rockers and installed the stands . I then installed a new rocker (I backed the adjuster all the way up) with an adjustable pushrod on cylinder 1, and adjusted the pushrod so it was at zero lash. The pushrod measured 7.65 so I am going to order 7.60 rods. This is where I am stuck-

I have read about adjusting the rockers at tdc on compression stroke and intake stroke, and am not sure which is correct. As long as both valves are closed and the piston is at the top, am I at the right spot to adjust the rockers?

Thanks
Gary

 

[Joseph Dell]

It is both. compression on the intake stroke. a 4-stroke motor has C-I, D-I, C-E, and D-I. you want to be at TDC on the way up on the C-I stroke. C=compression, D=decompression.

 

[SYNFULL]

I gotcha - compression and intake stroke are the same.
So that would be after the intake valve closes and the piston is at the top - right.
My son just showed me an animation of "how a motor works" and it helped
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

Thanks
Gary

 

[SYNFULL]

I just finished the install of the rockers. I bolted the valve covers on in a few spots and started it up. I could not detect any tapping of the rockers against oil baffles. I removed them and couldn't find any marks either. I read that the new rockers would hit the oil baffles. Is this true in all cases? I closed everything up and went for a ride then listened with a stethescope and could hear no tapping. I am glad I don't have to modify the baffles but am why my car is differant?
Anyone else that didn't have to modify the baffles with the T&D'S??
Thanks
Gary

 

[Jack B]

You arrived at the correct length with a wayward technique. The adjustable rod should have been measured with the adjuster one full turn down and that would be your rod length. As it works out one full turn on the adjuster is .050, therefore, you got there by crook. One turn down, +/- 1/2 turn is the sweet spot. If you go past two turns you start to lose oil flow and the adjuster gets weaker.

I have done them a few times and found in my case they have to be re-adjusted after the fact. i installed heavy springs at the same time and they pump down much quicker than the oem set-up.

My rockers did just hit the baffles. I let them run with the bolts loose, that marked the interference spot. I then tapped them will a small ball-peen hammer - sounds crude, but, it works. Just make sure that you haven't turned them down much beyond two turns.

Good Luck