hmmmmmm something fishy here

Scotty B

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I have to agree with you here Morgan...

It would almost be comical watching the incar from the 4th place Z06 as the 2nd place Z06 strokes around holding up the field so the Viper (heinricy) can get away if it wasn't for the fact that on the immediately following Monday the team that fielded the Viper and the 2nd place Z06 started a nationwide petition campaign among T1 competitors to add 200lb to the Viper and take away the T suspension kit! :shocked: :confused: :shocked:

I would normally be stoked about any win for the SRT hot rod but it kinda looks like there were alterior motives at work... I dunno...

Oh, guess what else Morgan? Jason Berkley is the Phoenix guy that started the petition and did you know that Jason is on the Showroom Stock, T1, T1 Advisory comittee...? This win just gets weirder and weirder... :smirk:

I sure am bummed though that the same team that wins against a huge field turns around and campaigns to slow the car down... :confused:

We're just startin to get these hot rods sorted ou in T1 and I sure wouldn't look forward to being 500lb heavier than the Z06...

Check out the video and see what you think about AJ strokin it?

Incar from 4th place Z06

Wacthing it kinda reminds me of the old speed adage, "Fast in, S-l-o-w out..." :smirk:

sbw :usa:
 
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99t1

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I did not know about the new petition...same old cryin just like in the old days with Sunshine C5. When will they move up rather than pull us down?

Any changes to the SRT this late in the season because of one "Phoenix prepped...wink...wink" SRT would be criminal and Berkeley should be caned for falling for it. (just kidding Jason!)

I really thought this was a good thing but, thanks to you , I see it's the same old bilge.

Good luck Scotty...bring one home for us fair and square!
 

Phoenixviper

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The Viper just flat out flattened everyone...

It is an Excellent car and should be a winner at mid Ohio...
 

Phoenixviper

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Hi again morgan...

Oh by the way, Jason "the Phoenix Guy" is a customer of ours, who participated in the race along with the rest of us, including your brother in law, Pete Kulka... He acted independently and on his own along with several other Corvette drivers... Jason was understandingly perturbed when the Viper proved to have been so fast, after having listened for months as to how poor it was...

I own both Corvettes and Vipers, so it does not matter to me.

The view from AJ's in car was pretty stunning... The Viper took off as though it went into warp drive. AJ did drive the Viper on Saturday and won that race. He easily covered the field in spite of being on4 cycle old tires...

AJ wants to drive the Viper at the runoffs. He will be writing a letter asking for 100 pounds to be removed and for the restrictor to be removed...

Now scotti, he has some issues with his Viper... It did not run well at Watkins Glen and was pretty slow in fact, about 4 seconds off the pace. Several Corvettes just about ran over him and he was probably unhappy with his performance. I am sure he tried hard and will be working on getting it faster for the rest of the year.

Our development project is ongoing with the Viper SRT10 and we will be offering a full range of rules compliant prep and performance enhancement services that will keep it at the top of T1 no matter who is driving it..
 

Jason Berkeley

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Hi folks in Viperland!

A few corrections to Scotty's post, along with my actual thoughts on the current situation:

1)I am not a member of the Phoenix team, nor an employee. I am a customer (i.e. I pay them to perform major service tasks and car set-up. I wish they could teach me how to pedal a little faster too!).

2) SCCA Advisory Committee members are permitted to send in letters requesting rules changes or spec changes, just as any other SCCA member can. It happens all the time.

3) I sent in another specific letter to the National office asking to disqualify myself (as an AC member) from any discussions on the topic pertaining to my request.

4)My request does NOT ask for the entire T1 suspension kit to be removed, but simply the stabilizer bars and links. Since the Phoenix Viper ran without the stab bars, and only the springs and shocks (which are open in T1), I made this request in order to prevent the Viper from getting even faster than what was observed, timed, and recorded at Pocono.

5)I don’t ask for 200lbs, I asked for 188. Also, you will note that AJ’s Viper weighed in approximately 90 lbs over min. weight to begin with in tech at Pocono. SO it is a defacto weight increase of 98lbs over what ran at Pocono. I arrived at this number as follows:

A well prepared, dyno tuned C5 Corvette generally puts out 373 rear wheel horsepower, at a class weight of 3280. The most any of us has seen is 380 rwhp. Using 380bhp and an attainable 3280, the C5 has a weight to power ratio of 8.613lbs/bhp.

The Phoenix prepared, restricted Viper generated 435 rwhp according to Joe Aquilante. The class weight of the viper SRT-10 is 3560lbs. Using these figures, the Viper SRT-10 currently has a weight to power ratio of 8.1839. Increasing the weight of the Viper by 188 lbs to 3748 lbs. gives the Viper a nearly identical weight to power ratio as the C5 Corvette- 8.616 lbs/bhp.

BTW-This request does not address the superior torque-to-weight ratio advantage that the Viper has.

Based on the observed and timed performance of the Viper SRT10 versus a C5 Corvette at Pocono this past weekend, these numbers would appear to be quite accurate.

Exiting the two second gear corners at Pocono, the Corvettes and the Vipers were fairly even, but once we hit third gear, the Viper would strongly pull away from the Corvettes.


6) The SCCA is making no further changes to any cars prior to the Runoffs, so all will be revealed at Mid-Ohio, where full tear-downs can be expected for the top finishers, and I suspect of the Naykid Viper and the Phoenix Viper so that the club can try to determine where the “reality” of SCCA T1 Viper performance is.

7) I want PARITY between all cars. I truly want to see lots of Vipers, Vettes, 911GT3s, etc… all out there together. It’s a lot more fun that way.

Jason Berkeley
SCCA T1 Corvette Driver
 

FrankBarba

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Jason, is it possible that you copy a copy of your letter to the SCCA here on the boards. Also if you know of anyone else involved with the SRT drive that has pettitioned the SCCA to place restrictions post a copy here also.
 

SoCal Rebell

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Jason, is it possible that you copy a copy of your letter to the SCCA here on the boards. Also if you know of anyone else involved with the SRT drive that has pettitioned the SCCA to place restrictions post a copy here also.


Waa, waa, cry, cry you bought a piece of tupperware for gods sake, you problem not ours, take your lumps or move up :D
 
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99t1

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Hi all,

I spoke to Jason at length about this yesterday. I understand his point about trying to achieve parity but I do not agree that the petition should be filed after only one weekend of ass whooping and one set of dyno numbers on one day. I'm happy that nothing will change this year and MO will settle it for next year's specs.

He did not mention and I did not know that AJ asked for more for the SRT. I (for some reason???) thought Phoenix was behind Jason's petition...and that's where it was gettin fishy in my opinion.

For the record I actually considered bringing my 01 ACR to Joe for prep even before he fielded anything from Dodge but I went to another class instead.

I expect hourly blackberry posts from someone (Jason?)at MO...this will be riveting!!!

Good luck Scotty, Cindi AND AJ!!!
 

FrankBarba

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[/QUOTE]
Waa, waa, cry, cry you bought a piece of tupperware for gods sake, you problem not ours, take your lumps or move up :D

[/QUOTE]

Ron, sorry i do not understand your post. Not crying at all. Just asked for a copy of the letter sent. Move up to What? Take my Lumps? Purchased a piece of tupperware?
 
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99t1

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apparently it does not matter until after the runoffs but here's Jason's petition letter that he asked me to post:


"After witnessing the performance of the Dodge Viper SRT-10 this weekend during the Double National at Pocono International Raceway, we would like to request that the CRB immediately take action to bring the performance of the Viper in-line with the balance of the T1 field, PRIOR to the 2005 National Championship Runoffs, in order to prevent the Viper from effectively killing a class that has finally grown to healthy numbers after years of struggling.

Jeremy Thoennes observed that, at tech, the Viper weighed in at approximately 3640 lbs- a good 90 lbs over minimum weight already. Additionally, this Viper was running without the complete Dodge Mopar approved T1 suspension kit. The only suspension revisions on this Viper were shock absorbers (which are open in T1), and the alternate spring that was recently approved by the CRB. Mopar has not yet made the approved T1 suspension kit available to the general public. The addition of the approved stabilizer bar parts will only serve to increase the disparity in performance between the Viper and the rest of the field.

Therefore, we would like to respectfully request, the deletion of all components from the Viper SRT-10 approved suspension kit with the exception of springs (to prevent the Viper from becoming even faster), as well as a 188 lb. weight increase, (to bring the power-to-weight ratio in-line with the balance of the T1 field).

We need to ensure parity between all makes and models of cars in the class, and after the Viper was piloted by the defending, and current NESCCA National Points Champion (Andrew Aqualante) in the Saturday race, and the defending four-time National Champion in the Sunday race, it is painfully clear just how much power and speed the Viper has.

A well prepared, dyno tuned C5 Corvette generally puts out 373 rear wheel horsepower, at a class weight of 3280. The most any of us has seen is 380 rwhp. Using 380bhp and a very attainable 3280, the C5 has a weight to power ratio of 8.613lbs/bhp.

The Phoenix prepared Viper generated 435 rwhp according to Joe Aquilante. The class weight of the viper SRT-10 is 3560lbs. Using these figures, the Viper SRT-10 currently has a weight to power ratio of 8.1839. Increasing the weight of the Viper by 188 lbs to 3748 lbs. gives the Viper a nearly identical weight to power ratio as the C5 Corvette- 8.616 lbs/bhp.

Based on the observed and timed performance of the Viper SRT10 versus a C5 Corvette at Pocono this past weekend, these numbers would appear to be quite accurate.

Exiting the two second gear corners at Pocono, the Corvettes and the Vipers were fairly even, but once we hit third gear, the Viper would strongly pull away from the Corvettes.

It should be further noted that representatives from the SCCA National Tech Office were present to inspect the Viper to ensure that it was running in T1 legal trim.

Both Andrew Aqualante and John Heinricy also noted that the Viper needs to be developed in terms of suspension alignment and shock settings, and that it will be much quicker than it aleady is once developed, whereas the C5 Corvette has clearly reached the end of it’s development cycle, as it has been raced, tested, and tweaked continuously by top-level teams for a number of years.

Qualifying from Saturday

T1 - Qualifying
1. AJ Viper 1:39.284 a new track record
2. J Yarosz C6 vette 1:41.267
3. Heinricy C5 vette 1:41.304
4. Pintaric C5 Corvette 1:42.005
5. Joe A C5 Corvette 1:42.243!
6. Bob Kahn C5 Corvette 1:42.399

T1- Saturday Race

1. Andrew Aqualante Viper 1:41.150

2. John Heinricy C5 1:40.891

3. David Pintaric C5 1:42.374

4. Jason Berkeley C5 1:43.636

NOTE: In the Saturday race, Heinricy had to start at the back, so AJ did not push as hard as qualifying.

Sunday T1 Qualifying:
1. John Heinricy- VIPER SRT10 1:38.XX
2. AJ Aqualante- C5 Corvette 1:41.XX
3. Joe Aqualante- C6 Corvette 1:42.0
4. Peter Kulka- C5 1:42.2XX
5. Bob Kahn- C5 1:42.XX
6. Dave Pintaric C5 1:42.4XX
7. Jason Berkeley C5 1:42.59
8. Evan Kesselman 1:43.XX
9. Cliff Murray 1:4X.XX
10. Judy Warren 1:XX.***

Race:
1. John Heinricy- Viper 1:39.44
2. AJ Aqualante- C5 1:41.934
3. Joe Aqualante-C6 1:42.333
4. Bob Kahn- C5 1:42.048
5. Evan Kesselman- C5 1:42.280
6. Pete Kulka- C5 1:43.698
7. Cliff Murry- C5 1:44.196
8. Dave Pintaric- C5 1:42.076 * Not running at finish
9. Judy Warren - C5 1:47.378
DNF Jason Berkeley

We, the following people who are signing our names, have spent a great deal of time, money, and effort developing and racing these cars, and trying to build-up this class. We do not want to see 98% of the cars in the class rendered as also-rans.

Please make the requested changes to the Viper SRT-10 in order to slow it down and create REAL parity between cars. Also, please continue to monitor the parity between the C5, C6, and the Viper and adjust as required to ensure a level playing field.

Please make a point of including this request in your discussion this evening with the CRB. The potential consequence of NOT addressing this prior to the Runoffs, is the mass exodus of people away from T1 in the off season."
 
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99t1

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sorry to be long winded tonight...but even if the vipers came in 1, 2, 3, I think most of the vette T1ers will be back next year for sure probably in c6s or c6/zo6s. NO mass exodus...at least t1 might not be the corvette challenge anymore.
 

GR8_ASP

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It seems like you only request changes where the Viper seems to be superior. Maybe if you had included some aspect where it is inferior as well it would have come off a little more even handed. At an equal power to weight ratio the Viper is at a DISADVANTAGE for cornering, tire wear, brake wear, and high speed acceleration (due to more aerodynamic drag).

Plus leveraging the theoretical potential is ridiculous. Only the current level of refinement and development should be included for comparison.
 

nitro

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Does Speed TV air these races? If not, where can these be recorded on TV?
 

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