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How important are rear tires for steering? Trying to decide on front/rear combo.

Discussion in 'Tire , Wheel, Brake and Suspension' started by heath1225, Dec 25, 2013.

  1. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    How much do the rear tires affect handling?

    I am set on Nittos, however, I dont know whether I should go with NT05s all the way around, Invos all the way around, or NT555 on the front and NT05 or Invo on the back. I know the NT555 will handle well on the front, but will Invos, which arent known for handling, on the rear, affect the steering? Same for NT05s, except they have a better rep for handling than Invos. Basically I am wanting to know if the rear tire affects the cars ability to steer/handle. I dont autocross, but I do take curves aggressively at high speeds when I feel froggy. I currently have Kuhmo Escta 4s on the front and Estca XS on the rear and it handles great.

    Also, which is better for hooking up? NT05 or Invo?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  2. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    Anyone? It may be a stupid question, but I dont want to get killed while driving lol
     
  3. tbsviper

    tbsviper Enthusiast

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    Suggest you change title unless you are getting many views. Most could see title, chuckle and move on to other thread.
     
  4. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    I guess I worded it wrong. lol It does sound funny now that I think about it. I will just try again haha
     
  5. St.Char

    St.Char Viper Owner

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    I don't consider this a stupid question, neither should you, Having the right rubber all around the car makes a huge difference. Just switching from the hard run flats to a softer rubber will make a difference. There are brands designed for tracking your car, but if you are street driving, your Nitto's are fine, Good luck and if you have other questions, don't hesitate to ask, that's what the the forum is for.
     
  6. denniskgb

    denniskgb Enthusiast

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    Agree, there are no stupid questions, there are stupid answers. I have Toyos all around they handle great. But i do slow down when i take turns i never play Russian ruelette...also you can contact TIRERACK and speak to them about tires they are pretty good about it.
     
  7. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    Thanks. I guess what I want to know is if a soft sidewall tire, which is not known to corner well, affect cornering if its in the rear? I know it will go fast in a straight line, but will it inhibit steering?
     
  8. St.Char

    St.Char Viper Owner

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    Usually, a softer rubber is a stickier tire, but there are exceptions, especially when you factor in tire tread, but there is one problem you may encounter, it has more to do with the incorrect tire width. If your rear tire is not wide enough for the rim, you could encounter sidewall stretch. I see this problem more often then you would think and it can be a serious problem, particularly when cornering. Unless you are tracking your car hard or drifting, stock size tires and softer rubber won't be a problem. If you would like to speak to an expert, contact Luke at Tirerack.
     
  9. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    OK. Thanks a lot! I will contact him.
     
  10. Bonkers

    Bonkers VCA Venom Member Venom Member

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    I have no experience with the nittos, but logic would suggest
    putting two different types of sidewalls and compounds on the
    corners would make for an oddly handling car under load. I
    personally would never mix-n-match rubber on a car I plan to
    throw into some curves - especially one as high-strung as the
    viper.
     
  11. tbsviper

    tbsviper Enthusiast

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    To be clear I was not suggesting it was a dumb question just what I saw on my cell phone was "are rear tires important" and then I read post and it was a quite detailed question about nitro tires of which I have no experience. I wholeheartedly agree there are no dumb questions.

    To the OP, you could PM Tony known here as Nine Ball. I suspect he can answer your specific questions. Good luck!
     
  12. Paul Hawker

    Paul Hawker Enthusiast

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    In a sports car, like the viper, with 50/50 weight balance, it is critical for safe handling to have the same rubber and construction at all 4 corners. With different traction available their will be little consistancy encountering heavy cornering loads.

    Many put drag radials on the rears to handle additional horsepower, but that really sacrifices handling. They are aware of this, and are willing to give up handling to gain straight ahead traction

    Even putting fresh rubber of the same construction on front or rear, and leaving older, harder rubber on the other will give you an lesser handling vehicle at the limits.

    In emergency braking situations, your stopping distances will be longer, and less stable with different traction available, especially with non-abs models.

    Lots of people use Nitto envos on the street. They are well priced, and look really good, especially on a lowered car, but few serious racers will use them on the road courses due to their sidewall construction.

    Believe the best all around Viper replacement tires are becoming the Michelin Pilot Supersports due to their smooth and quiet ride, combined with reasonable price, long life, lessened tram lining, however their taller sidewalls do not look quite as good as the lower profile nittos.

    No experience yet with the Pirellis
     
  13. JohnnyBravo

    JohnnyBravo Enthusiast

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    Probably one of the best answers you're going to get.

    I personally have Nitto Invos on the front and have two sets of rear rims. One set with matching Invos on the rear and one set with drag radials. The car is MUCH more balanced and predictable in corners with matching Invos all the way around. However, because my car makes a little over 1000 rwhp, I prefer to keep the drag radials on the back most of the time for the straight line traction. But Paul is 100% correct that when I do that, I do NOT push the handling limits of the car in the corners because the compound and sidewall of the rears is completely different from the fronts.
     
  14. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    Thanks for the input guys. I will probably go with NT05s all the way around.
     
  15. Red Mist Viper

    Red Mist Viper Enthusiast

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    [FONT=&quot]heath1225, looks like you've made your decision following a lot of great input. Thought you might like to know I have NT555Rs all around on my GTS, and I like them--BTW I don't track my Viper. I have Pilots on my other GTS, and I agree with Paul Hawker's observations/comment. [/FONT]
     
  16. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    This is a post by someone from a Corvette forum but I thought that it would be a helpful review for you:

    "Well folks, i know this is a well reviewed tire, but I offer my opinions as a direct comparison of the Nitto Invos that I replaced on my 2006 Z06 with NT05 tires recently.

    I have had them on the car about a month, long enough to have good comparison of dry and wet weather street performance and yesterday autocrossed with them..

    The Invo is hands down the better street tire, only giving up straight line, dry weather hard acceleration traction to the NT05. If you don't race off the line at stop lights, there is no benefit to NT05's for street duty. I call [​IMG] on any review that says NT05 are good wet weather performers. Brand new, 1 day on the car, got caught in a rainstorm on the highway. I had hydroplaning at 70mph - bad. I hauled it down to 55mph and managed my way out of the storm. The Invos, even beyond half life, never exhibited this kind of hydroplaning behavior.

    On the street, I never reached the cornering limit of the Invo.

    So.. let's move on to autocross experience. Here, the NT05 is the clear winner (dry weather comparison). These things are probably as good as slicks were 5-10 years ago. Yesterday's course was about 40 seconds in size, favoring a high speed setup. I.e. nothing so tight that a cooper mini could use it's mini size advantage effectively. The configuration included a tough turn-around at the far end and a tight slalom before the finish, but found us deep into 3rd gear in the mid section (maybe 105mph?)

    My car is an '06 Z06, stock except for a CAI and tune. I had a best lap of 38.3 seconds.
    A race prepped C4 on slicks matched my NT05 times. A C6Z06 stock drivetrain but pfadt coilovers, carbotech brakes and full slicks bested the day at 35.8, only 2.5 seconds faster than my NT05 equipped car.
    Those minis.. where were they you ask? Well even those who were tuned and equipped with slicks turned about 40.5 seconds - enough to keep pace with my buddy in his AMG C63 4 door sled (4000 lb mercedes!) shod with Invos.

    Bottom line, if your car lives on the street with only occassional autocross or stop light racing, the Invo offers far superior all-conditions performance with only marginal trade in the dry.
    If you auto-x once a month at least and you don't mind slowing down a little in the rain, the NT05 is today's choice.
    Until I ran the autocross yesterday, I was really second guessing my choice to switch from the Invos.

    I'll follow up on tire life a year from now [​IMG]
    The Invos gave me 15000 miles of enjoyment, including 4 HPDE track days and a dozen autocross events.

    Hopefully at least one person finds this write-up helpful. [​IMG]



    OK, fast forward 9 months and that was the end of the NT05's. Unfortunately I did not record mileage exactly, but I'll estimate 8 to 10 thousand miles, 6 tough autocross weekends (100+ runs) and 1 HPDE. I think about half the life that I got from the original Invos all in all. Enjoyed the tires, but switched back to Invos for better life. Another set of wheels (used) and slicks (used) would be better for weekend duty. Spending $1350 twice as often for NT05's vs Invos does not make sense!! Used wheels and slicks would be a lot faster!"
     
  17. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    Thanks Bob!
     
  18. Dom426h

    Dom426h Enthusiast

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  19. heath1225

    heath1225 Viper Owner

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    I went with the Invos. Got them for $1147 shipped. Thanks for all the info guys!
     
  20. tjm5837

    tjm5837 Enthusiast

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    I just replaced my rear pilots on my 06 coupe and it has a very wierd feel. Kinda squirmy or darty. especially when doing quick lane changes. Feels almost difficult to point straight again. Taking it back to dealership to have alignment checked maybe next week Front tires still have plenty of good tread but are the original tires. Hate to get those changed too, as they really are fine. To note the tread pattern between the new and older tires is exactly the same. If it's not the alignment, then might be possible michelin has changed the rubber compound or something. But the tires look identical. Viper tech said all he did was switch out the rears. No adjustments to suspension or alignment. Balancing was of course done. I'll keep you updated when I determine what's up. All I know is doesn't handle like the same car.
     

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