i hate to say it

[black mamba1]

I think Vettes are very nice looking cars, the C5 and the C6's catch my eye every time. Me and 4 of my Viper buddies ambushed a Vette cruise last week. Our objective was to intimidate them into "revving it up" so we could emabarass them on the highway. There were 15 or so Vettes. But all of the drivers were between 52-65, and most had cigarettes in their hands. They not only ignored us, they wanted no part of us. After about 5 min of trying to intimidate them to do something, we felt sorry for them and left them alone.

But I did have a moment of clarity: Vettes represent a vehicle that most hardworking sports car lovers can afford at some point in their lives. They are priced so that Paul the plumber and Vinnie the local caterer can afford them. And we Americans have always been a rather simple people. We dont need opulent leather, and F1 seats... Americans have always kicked ass with what we had. And that is what the Vette is about...kick ass performance. Screw the rest for the most part. I can appreciate that.

Viper is something different. Viper is aimed at your self employed successful red blooded American. We are usually the guys the Vette guys work for. Viper is more aggressive, more non-chalant, more "in your face".

I have a Chevy Avalanche. A Viper. And a Bentley GT Coupe. I have had the Chevy for 2 yrs. Just put gas in it and it goes. Never had a problem. I have developed quite a bit of respect for Chevy after buying that truck. I love that truck. And for $375/month for a fully loaded truck w/ nav and satellite radio that can go anywhere and gives me no problems, that represents value.

So, for $500-$700/month, a guy can get a Vette that will kick the snot out of damn near anything on the road, except a Viper. Not a bad deal.

 

[Warfang]

I think Vettes are very nice looking cars, the C5 and the C6's catch my eye every time. Me and 4 of my Viper buddies ambushed a Vette cruise last week. Our objective was to intimidate them into "revving it up" so we could emabarass them on the highway. There were 15 or so Vettes. But all of the drivers were between 52-65, and most had cigarettes in their hands. They not only ignored us, they wanted no part of us. After about 5 min of trying to intimidate them to do something, we felt sorry for them and left them alone.

But I did have a moment of clarity: Vettes represent a vehicle that most hardworking sports car lovers can afford at some point in their lives. They are priced so that Paul the plumber and Vinnie the local caterer can afford them. And we Americans have always been a rather simple people. We dont need opulent leather, and F1 seats... Americans have always kicked ass with what we had. And that is what the Vette is about...kick ass performance. Screw the rest for the most part. I can appreciate that.

Viper is something different. Viper is aimed at your self employed successful red blooded American. We are usually the guys the Vette guys work for. Viper is more aggressive, more non-chalant, more "in your face".

I have a Chevy Avalanche. A Viper. And a Bentley GT Coupe. I have had the Chevy for 2 yrs. Just put gas in it and it goes. Never had a problem. I have developed quite a bit of respect for Chevy after buying that truck. I love that truck. And for $375/month for a fully loaded truck w/ nav and satellite radio that can go anywhere and gives me no problems, that represents value.

So, for $500-$700/month, a guy can get a Vette that will kick the snot out of damn near anything on the road, except a Viper. Not a bad deal.

A Bentley? Damn... you sure you're not a Republican?

Hey after when it's all said and done... I'll stand by a Vette anyday over some import (Well, except an Aston... they're soo pretty).

 

[jmsrx]

Oh no......not again.



....................decides to exit before debate goes further.

 

[VENUM INJECTION]

I always have a problem with people comparing the ZO6 and the standard issue Viper. The Z06 is the vettes high performance model. The ACR is the viper's high performance model. So either compare apples to apples or not at all. Just my 2 cents.

 

[boosted349]

hey venum i hate to say it again but the acr is slower than the srt10 on the 1/4 mile track. there is no difference in drivetrain performance between the two and yes i am comparing a 08 z06 to a 06 viper because that is what i have , just stating facts. the z06 hasnt changed since 06 so it doesnt matter that i am comparing an 08,i can also compare to an 09 z06 because all they changed was the oil resevoir which will not make it faster at all. but i do agree that when i get my 08 or 09 viper that it will be compareable to the zr1 and not the z06. the bottom line is this,so far with my experience my vette is faster than my viper on the same exact day at the track with me as the driver of both. i can keep the vette in third for longer than the viper,maybe because i put the 19 20 wheels on the vette, the viper is at the point where i am hitting the rev limiter at the finish line in third, going to fourth at that point is pointless. maybe even hitting it before the finish hence slowing the car down a few tenths. dodge says the viper goes 121mph in 3rd i am going almost 125mph on the rev limiter

 

[VENUM INJECTION]

I understand your point. Your right about the ACR in straight line being slower. I was thinking more on the line of road course performance. It will be interesting to see both 1/4 mile and road course numbers on the ZR1 and 08 or 09 viper. Cool that you have both. I do appreciate the herritage of the Vette though.

 

[jamie furman]

I always have a problem with people comparing the ZO6 and the standard issue Viper. The Z06 is the vettes high performance model. The ACR is the viper's high performance model. So either compare apples to apples or not at all. Just my 2 cents.

I have to disagree also the Z06 is now 2nd in the Vette food chain with the ZR1 being the ACR of vettes. I have a new ACR due in any day and I hope its as fast or faster than a ZR1 on a racetrack but I doubt it will be much of a match for the ZR1 in a straight line or on the street.

 

[NukedGTS]

What exactly is the point of this tread? Oh wow a vette beat a viper! Not much diffrent than the civic beats lamborghini video i saw on youtube. Some people, (called car enthusiasts) can actually see why a lamborghini is better than a hopped up civic, despite being slower; likewise car enthusiasts, should be able to very easily see why it really doesnt matter if the viper is slower. The corvette is a compelte embaresment to the sports car industry. Never bring a vette to a meet with real cars like Lamborghinis, Ferraris and Vipers becaue nobody wants to waste their time looking at it, must explain why a Z06 was remvoed from a Lambo/Ferrari meet i went to, keep in mind the viper was allowed in

Isn't it interesting that the posts with "no real point" seem to be the ones that generate the most discussion! Your suggestion that a Lambo to Civic comparison is in line with a Viper to Vette comparison shows adefinite lack of knowledge . . . Even more childish is your stating the corvette being an 'embaresment' to the sports car industry.

 

[black mamba1]

A Bentley? Damn... you sure you're not a Republican?

Hey after when it's all said and done... I'll stand by a Vette anyday over some import (Well, except an Aston... they're soo pretty).

The Bentley was my wifes choice. I would have never looked at that car twice were it not for her. Bobpantax swears my wife is way too pretty to be with me, and too pretty and smart not to be a Republican!

 

[black mamba1]

I always have a problem with people comparing the ZO6 and the standard issue Viper. The Z06 is the vettes high performance model. The ACR is the viper's high performance model. So either compare apples to apples or not at all. Just my 2 cents.

Good point.

 

[black mamba1]

I have to disagree also the Z06 is now 2nd in the Vette food chain with the ZR1 being the ACR of vettes. I have a new ACR due in any day and I hope its as fast or faster than a ZR1 on a racetrack but I doubt it will be much of a match for the ZR1 in a straight line or on the street.

The ZR1 will not be competitve on the road course in my view due to heat soak and weight and no real downforce. Throw some headers on the ACR and a 3:33 rear end, and you will eat the Zr1 for lunch in the straight line as well. That is until the Zr1 throws on headers too!

 

[black mamba1]

Oh no......not again.



....................decides to exit before debate goes further.

I promise not to be baited into another cat fight in this thread!

 

[serpent2]

The great debate! its not which car can out perform.I own both,a z06 and a gen 3 street serpent. its which guy at near 200 mph on the highway has the balls to keep it going! you dont buy a viper or a corvette to run times a drag strip. 1960s technology was running 12 sec. in the quarter.and most dont buy these cars to rent track time doing laps at your local oval track raceway. The real deal on performance between the 2,is like I said BALLS! but most dont have the guts to push there car to the limits on the open road. so hey should be comparing their car to the SRT4.well thats my 2 cents

 

[jamie furman]

The great debate! its not which car can out perform.I own both,a z06 and a gen 3 street serpent. its which guy at near 200 mph on the highway has the balls to keep it going! you dont buy a viper or a corvette to run times a drag strip. 1960s technology was running 12 sec. in the quarter.and most dont buy these cars to rent track time doing laps at your local oval track raceway. The real deal on performance between the 2,is like I said BALLS! but most dont have the guts to push there car to the limits on the open road. so hey should be comparing their car to the SRT4.well thats my 2 cents

Unfortunately there is usually so much bias on a particular site, vipers for vipers, vettes for vettes etc, etc that its hard to have a competent debate without name calling of the off brand and its capabilities or lack there of. In the real non biased world the Z and Viper are very close in performance and in most cases it all boils down to driver ability.

 

[GTSRboy2000]

Isn't it interesting that the posts with "no real point" seem to be the ones that generate the most discussion! Your suggestion that a Lambo to Civic comparison is in line with a Viper to Vette comparison shows adefinite lack of knowledge . . . Even more childish is your stating the corvette being an 'embaresment' to the sports car industry.

The word embaressing came into my mind when i stepped into a chevy dealer and checked out and sat in the 08 Z06, i thought to myself "THIS is the car everyones talking about???" I compared it to Vipers, Audi's, BMW's, Lambos, Porshce, it was so much worse than every other sports car id ever seen, and alone that doesnt really bug me, but all the pro corvette hype in mag's does. I guess it really does boil down to personal opinion, id have a M5 or a GTR if i was looking for a 70k DD

 

[boosted349]

all of you people talking down on the z06 do not have one and probably do not even have a viper. i have both and the z06 is a better buy for the money no matter what anybody says. you can get a 08 z06 out the door for $70,000 at the right dealer and chevrolet is giving 0% for 48 months on the z. so payment with nothing down is roughly $1468.00 per month. dodge does not offer anything like that and there car is nowhere even close to $70,000 out the door, more like $95,000 out the door and yes i am comparing 08 to 08, and yes the 08 viper is faster then the z, but the little bit that it is, is not worth it unless you like the viper better like i do. i am just stating that the z06 is not junk or an embarrasment as some of you have stated, the z06 is much more comfortable as a daily driver than the viper any day of the week, loaded with options. the viper has no options. dont think i am all about vettes, i am not, i drive my 06 viper every day and the 08 vette sits, the viper hands down is a better looking car and draws alot more attention and to me the extra money is worth it

 

[1BADGTS]

I have an 08 Viper not broken in and 90 plus degrees ran 11.49 at 127-Evan Smith driving.Last year Smith ran an 07 Zo6 same type weather 11.5 at 127.Guys telling it like it is- its a drivers race between the two.(the viper is slightly faster)The Viper has more power the Chevy alot less weight ,better aeros and gearing .When i mean slightly(same pro in the car same day, same track ) -its a drivers race a great driver in a Z06 will smoke an average or good driver in the 08 Viper.

 

[1BADGTS]

PS put Jamie Furman or Evan Smith in the Vette and whoever in the 08 Viper (both completely stock )the Viper loses in the quarter -

 

[1BADGTS]

Unfortunately there is usually so much bias on a particular site, vipers for vipers, vettes for vettes etc, etc that its hard to have a competent debate without name calling of the off brand and its capabilities or lack there of. In the real non biased world the Z and Viper are very close in performance and in most cases it all boils down to driver ability.

My EXACT point

 

[jamie furman]

PS put Jamie Furman or Evan Smith in the Vette and whoever in the 08 Viper (both completely stock )the Viper loses in the quarter -

I hope your wrong because I have a new ACR on the way! but that being said my first pass ever in my Z06 was in the middle of August 90 plus degrees bone stock 11.31 at 128mph. And Joe I know that you are aware that the car has seen 10.98 bone stock on the factory tires last November so you might be right? This issue with the Viper is not the power it is the hole shot and its much harder to leave in the SRT than a Z06!

 

[1BADGTS]

Jamie thats what iam trying to get through to these guys who think the 08 Viper walks all over the Zo6 .Over the years you know i have participated in alot of drag racing with these cars and for my money either you or Smith in the Vette and whoever in the Viper -the Viper loses no contest.My 08 for example was not broken in and -trapped 127 in bad weather.Evan in the same weather trapped identical in the Z06 GM HI Tech had.

 

[jamie furman]

Jamie thats what iam trying to get through to these guys who think the 08 Viper walks all over the Zo6 .Over the years you know i have participated in alot of drag racing with these cars and for my money either you or Smith in the Vette and whoever in the Viper -the Viper loses no contest.My 08 for example was not broken in and -trapped 127 in bad weather.Evan in the same weather trapped identical in the Z06 GM HI Tech had.

Joe people want to believe it because its what they own, and obviously if they don't own it everything else must be inferior? I don't think thats true about everyone but there is a heavy bias and very little objectivity on most sites I frequent. When you do try to be objective with an opinion and its not favorable to said brand even if it is the truth the most biased people try to turn it into an attack on their person and then the discussion becomes a personal attack and useless and you can't have an intelligent debate. I think when that happens its sad because a good healthy debate usually leads to some of the most interesting threads.

 

[1BADGTS]

Exactly i think its a combo of brand loyality (like you said because they own it )ignorance and lack of experience with theses cars at a drag strip or racing event.In 1996 when the Gen 2s first appeared they dominated because nothing you could buy came anywhere near them power to weight wise.Thats just not the case anymore.Today everything is just so even power to weight wise not to mention traction controls paddle shifting trannys ect.Horsepower aside nobody ever seems to take into account the most important factor of all-driver skill.Last year when the article co written by Danica Patric came out with some unfavorable rewiews on the 08 Viper many responded on the forums by claiming she just cant drive.WHAT-she is a professional INDY CAR Driver-one of only a handful of people in the world that has the skill to do that particular job .She is paid millions of dollars a year to do this (i sure her sponsers had nothing better to do than grab a hot girl out of her house ,put her behind the wheel of a multimillion dollar race car and pay her millions of dollars a year because she cant drive.)

 

[NukedGTS]

The word embaressing came into my mind when i stepped into a chevy dealer and checked out and sat in the 08 Z06, i thought to myself "THIS is the car everyones talking about???" I compared it to Vipers, Audi's, BMW's, Lambos, Porshce, it was so much worse than every other sports car id ever seen, and alone that doesnt really bug me, but all the pro corvette hype in mag's does. I guess it really does boil down to personal opinion, id have a M5 or a GTR if i was looking for a 70k DD

Well, if you went to the trouble of sitting in one in a showroom then I guess you do know your stuff.

 

[VENUM INJECTION]

I guess it is a good thing sports cars are not sumed up based on a 1/4 mile. So yes most of these supercars are even, and most of the time we are talking about tenths. i just think its funny when vette guys are hugging their 1/4 mile victories. I suppose we would do the same thing if all we had to claim was 1/4 mile superiority, THANK GOD WE HAVE SO MUCH MORE TO CLAIM. Hey I give the Vette its due credit. It comes with a lot of heritage. And thankfully there is not just one or two sportscars in this world to choose from. And mayby if I had an unlimited checkbook I might choose something else over a Viper, but honestly I would really have to think about that one. I love raw American engineering, and I just think the Viper is the overall best representative of that-low production, pure, unspoiled power. When people say the Viper lacks refinement, I just say in the same way Nascar racecars lack refinement. I mean its supposed to be a muscle car not a sedan. Anyway, just my opinion which with 75 cents might get me a local phone call. I respect most of the supercars today, but the rivalry with the vette is my favorite. I guess we just love to hate each other. My uncle drives a vette and I love to give him **** about it, not because I think vettes ****, but just because its fun to banter back and forth.

 

[viper k]

vettes are for old women

 

[RedEnuf93]

I could care less. My old -93 will outrun both of them.

And its 15 years old. (Pretty much a stock car, except smooth tubes, plugs, windshield wipers, and blower with NOS. So as you see pretty much a stock -93 Viper with new windshield wipers can beat a Z-whatever it was.

 

[1BADGTS]

What happens if you mod the z the same way.(Blower Nitrous)Remember iTs a ton lighter than our cars plus alot more aero.

 

[1BADGTS]

ps remember guys (as much as i will cry if it does happen )all things are now pointing to the vette being the only American supercar come 2010.

 

[GTSRboy2000]

Well i didnt know we had so many vette lovers on this site, im sure its a american car bias, becasue the Z06 falls into the same exact class as the GTR...and everyone here hates the GTR! Everything your saying thats pro corvette can be directly applied to the GTR, with its $70,000 tag and preformance, and options/ DD ability. In that scense it boils down to opinion, me bashing the vette is like you guys bashing the GTR, no REAL reason behind it its just the perspective.