Interesting read on Amsoil ...

Tom F&L GoR

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AAACCCCCKK!!

"Lube Control?" The oil is sacrificial, it's supposed to pick up the garbage that forms, and then it's all removed when you change your oil. You don't want thin sludgy oil with solvents to keep dirty oil in there longer!

Those guys are mixing up problems and answers - I don't care what the filtration level is, that does not guarantee longer oil drains, since the antiwear additive could be used up.

The point many are missing is that while the viscosity at 100C goes up (when people say it's gone from a 0W-30 to a 40 or a 50, they are talking about the high temperature measurement) the low temperature properties are worse, faster, and to a greater extent. So they are not recognizing that their 0W30 turned into a 10W40 and a 25W50. The low temperature pumpability affects starting wear, gelation, and is far more important that the high temperature characteristics.

No oil thickens by design. Some passenger car formulations may thicken to offset the shear down of the viscosity index improver, but the final measurement at 100C should always stay the same. Thickening or thinning out be design would fail several of the API engine tests.

AAACCCKK! Topic overload. Too many issues in one thread.
 
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Steve-Indy

Steve-Indy

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I found the value to lie in the QUESTION raised by an Amsoil dealer...... but suggest care in accepting "answers" given in said circumstances especially as a long thread often/usually gets tangential and leans toward anecdotal.
 

DarcShadow

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Can some one expline the oil weight to me. The first number is the oil cold, right? and the second number is hot. Oil thins out when it's hot right? So does that mean 0W-30 is thicker then 10W-30. This doesn't seem right to me cause oils like 20W-50 are recomended for hotter places and oil like 5W-30 for colder areas, at least they are for my truck.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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The "W" number determines what low ambient temperature the oil is safe to use. Oil has two characteristics: whether it waxes or solidifies when cold, and then how well it flows. Think of sucking on a milkshake - you can **** a hole in a cold one if a) it's really mostly solid, or b) it's so thick that it won't slump into the hole. A 15W-xx is safe down to -20C, a 10W-XX down to -25C, 5W-xx to -30C, etc.

The second number is a single measurement determined at 100C.

A single grade 30, a 5W30, and a 0W30 should all measure between 9.3 to 12.5 cSt at 100C. It does not mean that one of those three is thicker than another at 100C.

Bear with me now. The viscosity at low temperatures and at high temperatures can be plotted on a viscosity (y-axis) vs. temperature (x-axis) graph. The slope of the line is the "viscosity index." A 0W30 will have a flatter slope than a single grade 30. That would mean than at temperatures higher 100C, the 0W30 would be thicker, since it changes less with temperature. Careful - it's not thicker than an SAE 30, because by definition, the viscosity grade is a snapshot at 100C. But when the oil goes over 100C (212F, and oil can easily run in the high 200's) the multigrade will be thinner, but not as thin as the single grade would get.

A thicker oil may (may!!) provide better bearing protection, but at the risk of being too thick for safe starting when cold. Yes, an ideal oil would be a 0W-50, but that strecthes even the synthetic oil formulators. 5W-40 is great all around, 0W40 also.

In the US, OEMs are driven by emissions and fuel economy and almost have to recommend a 5W30. The current fuel economy specifications for engine oils don't even allow grades thicker than a 10W30 to apply for testing.
 

Jack B

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Tom:

Enlighten me, boat engine manufacturers basically recommend a single viscosity oil. I believe I saw an explanation that stated a boat always keeps the engine under load, whereas, an automotive application allows the engine to relax during part of the cycle. This constant load causes the oil to get hotter than in an automotive application.

Several years ago I mistakenly but in 10-30 in my boat and could not maintain oil pressure. As soon I changed back to the 30W, the oil pressure came back. This seems contrary to your explanation above, or am I mistaken.
 

Tom F&L GoR

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The weakness to my explanation is that the viscosity index improver is an additive that in time, with speed, or with heat, will decompose. The typical VII additive is like spaghetti in a sauce; when long and stringy it makes stirring harder, but when it breaks into little pieces, it gets easier (and thinner.) Synthetics use less VII because the base oil is inherently higher viscosity index, and some VII are starfish shaped, so losing an arm doesn't affect thickening power that much. In your application, shear occurs a bit more under load, because oil film thicknesses are smaller.

I can't explain your experience, (I take it the oil pressure was low right away) other than ask if the sending unit is just after the pump and you saw a high "inlet pressure" with the 30 that drops quickly throughout the engine. A 10W30 would be easier (thinner) to pump into the engine, but still behave like a 30 in the bearing itself.

Texaco sponsored some truck racers that used SAE 50, got better pressure and lower temps by switching to 20W50.
 
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