Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

Wing King

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Back on Sunday, March 2nd at 1:55pm, I officially “got blown”! :D My 97 GTS is proudly sporting Dan Cragin’s new system using not one, but TWO Vortech V2 superchargers. Yep, I have ‘twins” now!

Huge thanks go to Dan and his engineers, Chris Jensen (fuel & electronics) and Greg Edsinger, responsible for all the bracketry and other mechanical components. I also can't forget Rich Carlson of my local DC Training Center, and Keith Laxson, the Viper Tech from Huffines Dodge, who both aided greatly in either the preparation or installation

I had previously disassembled and prepared the car for installation before Dan and his team flew into Dallas last Friday night. Early Saturday we unpacked and inventoried all the parts. It took all day Saturday, and Sunday until around 1pm for five of us to complete the installation. All this action took place at 21st Century Muscle Cars in Dallas, owned by long time Viper enthusiast and racer buddy John Page. We were able to have a lift at our disposal not even 10 feet from his chassis dyno, so it was a VERY short drive to start tuning and tweaking.

I have to say, it’s an awesome experience to stand off to the side of your very own twin supercharged Viper for an entire afternoon on a dyno, covering your ears for pull after pull. Making me even MORE proud, they use a cast iron jack stand to support the exhaust gas sensor about a foot behind the rear exhaust pipes. The first pull blew that stand right off the dyno! :eek: Wahooo!

I suppose at this point I should talk about why I chose Dan Cragin’s system over so many other blower tuners on the market. I have nothing but good things to say about most all of them. But, I go way back with Dan, who is one of the very few remaining original Viper Technicians. More specifically, Dan has been an active guy at so many of the road course track events with me from the very beginning. First, I simply felt more comfortable that he was focused on the same road racing goals I had, and would be willing to sacrifice some really huge dyno numbers for my road racing durability. In fact, I told him I didn’t really want anything over 600 rear wheel horsepower, and that we could de-tune to be more conservative, since I never turn the engine over 5700 rpm anyway. His prototype testing of my system took place during weekends of 20-30 minute track sessions, designed to duplicate the use I had planned for my own car. Second, I liked the benefits I thought were available from using the two superchargers instead of one. We postponed the installation for months, until he was 100% certain the final system delivered to me would be flawless. This was “in spite of” my own impatience! :( Heck, I wanted it done for VOI last year, but he stood firm and even refused to take my money back then. Pure class and character.

Now, the deed is done, and his way proved best. I’ve got my bullet proof 600+ at the wheels on the dyno at low rpm’s, through stock headers and cats, and the car drives just like it always did on the street…….. until you want MORE! There is only a slight whistle from even the TWO superchargers at low speeds. But, mash the gas, bring up the revs, and the two of them shrieking are just about the most beautiful sound this car guy has ever heard. Then there’s also that special feeling supplied by seemingly unlimited amounts or torque. Wow! Now I know how the rest of you other supercharged guys feel! Should we be keeping this secret to ourselves? :cool:

Anyway, I feel like I’ve received a HUGE amount of “bang for my buck”, and would do this all over again if I could go back in time. Dr. Dan, thank you SO much for the birth of my “twins”, and for making my wishes come true.

I took many large and hi-res pics throughout this project, and have sent a few to Vipermad to see if he could shrink them down and do a follow up posting for me soon. See you guys at the track! :D

Supercharger1.jpg


Supercharger2.jpg


Supercharger3.jpg


Supercharger4.jpg


Supercharger5.jpg


Supercharger6.jpg


Supercharger7.jpg


Supercharger8.jpg


Supercharger9.jpg


<font color="red">Vipermad was here!</font> :)
 

DEVILDOG

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Wing,
Sounds awesome. Are you bringing your GTS to our meeting tomorrow so we can get a look and a listen?
 

cstegall

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Wing,
Congrat on your new beast :) ..sorry I did not make it to the install on Saturday...was out of town. Really wish I could have seen it during installation. We have got to get together when I get my car back from DLM.

Clark
 
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Wing King

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Tony, thanks for posting the pictures. Yes, it will be on display Saturday morning at the annual Rich Carlson Tech Session at the DC Training Center in Dallas. Clark........ get ready for the ride of your LIFE when you get YOUR baby back from Doug Levin!!!!! :D
 

cstegall

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Wing,

I can't wait to see what Doug does...but, I still can't imagine the power behind TWO superchargers :shocked: ...AWESOME.
Please keep me updated on your car and don't forget we have to get together once mine gets back.

Clark
 

treynor

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Congratulation, WK - it's a beautiful install, and now you know what we SC guys keep raving about! :) Enjoy!
 

Nadine UK GTS

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

Congrats Daddy King!

I'm sure those new shrieking twins are going to keep you up most of the night!

Absolutely awesome. Lovely to read about your install, thanks for the post and great pics. Nice one, opps I mean nice two, Dan and King.

PS I don't smoke cigars, but I know how to light up 2 335's!
 
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SUN RA KAT

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me!

<font color="red">SWEET! </font>

Now you're fast enough to be allowed to repaint your Viper <font color="yellow">YELLOW! YELLOW! YELL OH! </font> :D
 

Paolo Castellano

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Kingman, I wish I had looked at this post last night. I thought you were posting about.... uh, you know, TWINS! I have to tell you that these twins are much better looking than Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito! Dan has created a beautiful system that is different than anyone else. I love the external fuel rails and it is very interesting how everything has been arranged and fabricated! I assume that black box is the crankcase ventilation/bypass for the supercharger that makes this system emissions legal. Very innovative! Congratulations! Paolo
 

GaryA

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

Very nice pics! Congratulations on the twins!!
 

Gerald

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

NIIIICE.... It actually looks like twin turbos doesn't it!??

Gerald
 

malcoll

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

What was the cost for this system? Will Dan sell it as a DYI system?

Lance
 

Moundir

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

I was expecting to see pics of two little munchkins but this was even better :D Congrats on the power. Since you are roadracing the car what have you done for cooling? Also how much did you have to ditune lol.
 

Daffy Duck Viper

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

Wing King,

Looking good. That's one vicious ride!

Hey, I have a question.
On The 'ViperShop.com' website, they state:
"Our twin supercharger system has been in development for the past year and a half. This system...will provide high boost levels at lower rpm, complete tuneability and enough airflow to provide 1000hp if you desire."

My question:
Is the twin supercharged system that you have installed the same as the one (stated above) that can produce 1000HP? If not, how is yours different? If so, is it just a matter of how much air flow you have the system set for that determines the HP?

What might the pros and cons be for, say, low setting versus high setting, presuming that is all the difference is between gaining low HP and high HP?

I realize these questions might be a bit much, but I know you guys on here know a lot, and I value the information gleaned from this forum.

Thanks for your input.
And thanks to anyone that might know some of the answers to these question.

-Daffy
 
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Wing King

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

Thanks for the comments guys (and Supercharged Nadine!) Daffy, I'm certainly no "tuner", but I'll try to answer your questions in the most basic terms as I understand them.

First, I've been told by more than one factory engineer that the stock bottom end on a Viper is pretty much ok and durable up to around 600hp at the rear wheels. Start pushing much more and they'll give you a frown and the eyes narrow! :D

Second, think of your engine as one giant air pump. The more air you can get in, combusted inside, and out...... the faster you can go. That said, I know exactly how to make 1,000 horsepower out of my system.

1. Stronger rods and better pistons that might have a lower static compression ratio than my stock forged ones.

2. Modified heads that will flow a bit more air.

3. Probably a slightly different cam profile.

4. Big 1.75 primary aftermarket headers feeding very low restriction cats.

5. Because of the new pistons and rods from step one, I would now "turn up the boost" psi quite a bit more.

6. Might increase the stock throttle body sizes.

7. Might need to turn the revs to fuel shut off at 6200.

Piece of cake! ;) However, if I did all that, I just feel that somewhere along the way I'm going to lose a little street drivability. There is no free lunch, although I sure do like what I have right now. Hope that helps.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Way to go Wingie, I can hardly wait for someone to post............"I've had Triplets, ha!"

Beautiful job ,but this is what we have come to expect from Dan Da Man!
 

Hoosier Daddy

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

OK,OK. King now you need a new updated signature. I don't know something like uno Wing...dos Turbo....No Prayer maybe?
 

Daffy Duck Viper

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

Thanks for the comments guys (and Supercharged Nadine!) Daffy, I'm certainly no "tuner", but I'll try to answer your questions in the most basic terms as I understand them.

First, I've been told by more than one factory engineer that the stock bottom end on a Viper is pretty much ok and durable up to around 600hp at the rear wheels. Start pushing much more and they'll give you a frown and the eyes narrow! :D

Second, think of your engine as one giant air pump. The more air you can get in, combusted inside, and out...... the faster you can go. That said, I know exactly how to make 1,000 horsepower out of my system.

1. Stronger rods and better pistons that might have a lower static compression ratio than my stock forged ones.

2. Modified heads that will flow a bit more air.

3. Probably a slightly different cam profile.

4. Big 1.75 primary aftermarket headers feeding very low restriction cats.

5. Because of the new pistons and rods from step one, I would now "turn up the boost" psi quite a bit more.

6. Might increase the stock throttle body sizes.

7. Might need to turn the revs to fuel shut off at 6200.

Piece of cake! ;) However, if I did all that, I just feel that somewhere along the way I'm going to lose a little street drivability. There is no free lunch, although I sure do like what I have right now. Hope that helps.

Ahhh, the light dawns. Now that DOES help my understanding in both the power a Viper engine can take in stock form and what must be done to the Viper engine so that superchargers can be utilized to their fullest.

Thank you very much, Wing King. Great information.

Now, I just have one thing holding me back: My Viper SRT-10, not having one yet! *chuckle*

If it's not one technicality, it's another. *smirk*

Time, all we need is time.

-Daffy
 

NOMERCY

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Re: Just had TWINS! Light TWO cigars for me! (PICS)

SICK!!!!! Just SICK!!!!!
 

Paolo Castellano

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Kingman, Dan, I have a couple more questions about your system..... How much power are you guys making to the wheels? How many #'s of boost for that power level? I would be very curious to see the dyno graph of HP + Torque vs RPM to see how the torque curve of the twins compares to that of the single and to the Roe supercharger. The twin setup is beautiful and different from Heffner and Levin but it seems that there could possibly be less space to plumb the intercooler piping. Since the car's purpose is to road race, is there a provision for intercooling? Do the twins generate more or less heat than the single setup?

I know you all have done quite a bit of road race testing and data logging for this system....My Supra buddies here in Chicago have told me that any forced induction system eventually gets heat soaked during road racing. To my knowledge, there have not been any other superchargers that have been tested for multiple laps around the roadcourse. What have you all found with your supercharger system in regards to the existence and/or degree of heat soak for a supercharged application around the road course?
 

GONABITE

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Kingman, Dan, I have a couple more questions about your system..... How much power are you guys making to the wheels? How many #'s of boost for that power level? I would be very curious to see the dyno graph of HP + Torque vs RPM to see how the torque curve of the twins compares to that of the single and to the Roe supercharger. The twin setup is beautiful and different from Heffner and Levin but it seems that there could possibly be less space to plumb the intercooler piping. Since the car's purpose is to road race, is there a provision for intercooling? Do the twins generate more or less heat than the single setup?

Yes I would love to see the dyno graphs as well. By the way it looks great.
 
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Wing King

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I just heard from Dan tonight. He knows about this message thread but has some computer problems and can't get on. Says he'll be here soon.

Gonabite, I'm always reluctant to post graphs or other exact numbers because it tends to promote "tuner vs tuner", and generally they really are NOT that relevant between cars. There is absolutely NO comparison we could make between our cars that would not be "apples to oranges". For example, I noticed in your signature that you have the big 1.75 headers and larger throttle bodies. I still have the old 97 stock headers and throttle bodies, by choice. Nothing similar about our cars to compare. Further, I put a limit of 5700 rpm on the dyno that day, and it would not be fair to Cragin's system to compare MY numbers with other's who have run their's all the way out. I did take a lot of grief for that from my own buddies who were present! :D "oh come on..... let it fly..... we wanna see and hear." :smirk: I'll say it again..... I asked Dan to keep me VERY conservative, at whatever sacrifice of ultimate power that might entail. That included not WANTING any more than 600 at the wheels to over stress my stock bottom end. I am EXTREMELY happy that he gave me exactly what I asked for. I know Dan DOES have some performance numbers posted on his website at The Viper Shop, for those who are curious. Otherwise, I'll just let him speak for himself when he can get here. Heck, I'm just the lucky and satisfied customer! :D
 
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