Let's talk TAXES!

Viperfreak2

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Let\'s talk TAXES!

Bought the GTS in 2002, didn't think about the $3000 Gas Guzzler Tax as a deduction on my income tax return....I will be including this for the SRT bought in '03. Anyone have experience doing this in previous years? Any concerns from the Government on tax on a tax deductions? Can I go back and claim the '02 tax with a revision? Same thing as property tax in my mind.
 

Phoenix SRT

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

Here's a thought: maybe your accountant is the person to ask. Yeah, it sounds crazy, but I've heard that accountants really know some things about taxes. Go figure.

Now for a totally uniformed wild guess: the goverment isn't going to look kindly on trying to deduct the gas guzzler tax. The tax exists to dissuade the public from buying fuel inefficient vehicles, so why would they whack you on the one hand, then give some of the penalty back on the other?

Of course, because we all know that everything the government does makes sense, who knows. Maybe it's legal.
 
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Viperfreak2

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

How are personal property taxes different than GGT? I wrote a check for both. One just went through the dealer then to uncle sam. Sales tax is deductible, same check, same day.
 

vipah

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

Not sure who your accountant is, but sales tax is not deductable on your Federal tax return either.

Look at the GGT as a luxury tax.
 

GR8_ASP

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

I agree. Please, if you find that any of these taxes are deductible there are inquiring minds that want to know (how)?

Now the value portion of your license plate fee may be deductible as prersonal property tax. I have used that every year. But luxury tax, sales tax and gas guzzler were just pure contributions to the government "trust" fund.
 

Phoenix SRT

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

How are personal property taxes different than GGT?

The GGT is intended as a penalty to discourage a particular behavior (buying thirsty cars), with the bonus (to the government) of raising more money that can then be totally wasted by our great protectors in Washington. PPT are intended solely to raise money, not to discourage some behavior.

If you could deduct the GGT, it would lessen the penalty and, in theory, have less of a deterrent effect. On the other hand, it makes sense that if you pay a PPT, you shouldn't also have to pay income tax on that amount (if you do, you are taxed twice on the same money). So allowing a person to deduct personal property taxes doesn't run counter to the intended purpose like it would if you could deduct the GGT. At least that is what my accountant tells me.
 
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Viperfreak2

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

I agree with the theory, but at the same time, the gov't is allowing the $100,000 small business loophole to BUY huge SUV's. That's a huge tax break to buy a gas guzzler, so why can't I save a few hundred bucks by not paying a tax on a tax? I think you're all correct that I need accountant advise. These guys are usually ultra conservative though and don't think outside the box. I'm the exact opposite of these anal-retentive 'numbers only,cover my butt' types, and usually don't get along with them very well. I think I'll include it on my tax returns and see if some gov't worker catches it. I have nothing else to hide and receipts for everything, so even an audit wouldn't hurt me.
 

Brad04Mamba

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

The difference is GGT is a federal tax. Property tax and DMV fees are state taxes thus deductible on your federal tax return. State sales taxes used to be deductible until they were specifically disallowed by statute, in the 80's. Federal taxes are not deductible period.

Brad CPA H
 
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Viperfreak2

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

I lead a simple life (no, not Paris Hiltons simple life) so my taxes are a breeze. The audit process is pretty rare (1-2% I heard) and the IRS had such a bad rep. in the past, a couple people who have been audited lately say it's pretty friendly! Last year I made an honest mistake and the gov't simply corrected it without drama.

Brad, thanks for the advise about federal taxes not being deductible, can you explain why a tax on a tax (regardless of whos it is) can be legal? State taxes are deductible on my federal return, but federal is not deductible on my federal return? George W. needs to fix this.
 

Brad04Mamba

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

The old saying of "double taxation" or not taxing taxes is long gone. That was the reasoning behind allowing the deduction for sales tax, but just like anything else, they just keep changing the rules to suit their needs. The best way of increasing taxes without saying your raising taxes is to elimate deductions. People will scream bloody ****** if you say "i'm going to increase the tax rate to 50%", but if you slyly say, "you can't deduct sales tax anymore", not too may people get upset because they can't figure out how it affects them.
 

Toddh

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

I don't mean to sound condescending, but there's a fundamental misunderstanding of taxes in this thread. My background is in Federal Income Taxes, so I'm something of an expert on the subject.

Rule #1: Taxes do not have to make sense, be logical, or even be consistent. The rules are drafted by congressional committees for several purposes (raise revenue, encourage/discourage certain behavior, get re-elected, etc.), they are implemented and interpreted by the Treasury Department and the court system, and collected and enforced (and sometimes interpreted) by the IRS.

Rule #2: Tax laws should not be perceived as fair or unfair. They are more like the weather - they just are what they are. If you're patient, sometimes they change, but there's not much you can do about them.

Rule #3: You can do what you want on your own tax return (although your advisor/preparer may refuse to sign it if they believe you want to do something not permitted by the rules), but recognize that if you go around breaking the rules then not only will you have to pay the tax if you get caught, but you will also have to pay penalties (some equal to 100% of the tax owed) and interest on underpayments. If you're really naughty, you can have your assets seized and go to prison.

Don't belive any of that crap that so-called "tax protesters" espouse about not having to pay income taxes if you never file a return, wages aren't income and other nonsense. All of those guys that have gotten some level of attention writing books and conducting seminars ends up serving time in Federal Prison. They don't let you drive a Viper while you're there, I've heard.

GGT is a Federal Excise Tax. None of these taxes are deductible on a Form 1040, 1040A, or 1040 EZ (the Federal Individual Income Tax Return). That is the law. Under certain circumstances, some of these excise taxes that are collected may be used as a *credit* against your income tax. For example, the Federal Excise Tax on gas and diesel fuel may be creditable if you use the fuel for off road purposes, like a farm tractor or a generator. But the GGT is not one of those.

I started another thread back in the summer about dealers collecting state sales tax on GGT. In Texas, at least, that is improper and the accounting departments at dealers that do this don't understand the rules. If you paid sales tax on your GGT, chances are that you're entitled to a refund. You have to file a claim for it, which is a pain, but in Texas it's about $190 so you have to decide if it's worth it.

The GGT on the Viper definitely *****, especially given the purpose of the rule and how the amount of the GGT is actually calculated vs. the reality of how many miles the average owner drives his/her Viper. Currently, however, it's a fact of life if you want to buy a new one. I'm sure the auto industry has done what lobbying they could to pare back the GGT as much as possible, so I don't imagine Viper owners could do much better.
 
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Viperfreak2

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

Thanks for the info. however disappointing to read. I can't disagree with what you say. I was just hoping that it had been done before and there wasn't a clear written law against adding it to my deductions list. By the way, I do consider my Viper an "off-road vehicle" AND a Generator! My driveway counts as off road, doesn't it? It generates LOTS of attention too!
 

Brian Kelly

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

When I got my '94 & '96 the luxury tax was in effect. I paid the price of the car, then the GGT on top of that, then the luxury tax based on the 1st total and then state sales tax on all that for a triple taxation. My '94 $50K RT ended up being $57,500 for an actual tax rate of 15%. I'm pretty sure the '96 was the same even though the lux tax was a lower rate and the threshold was higher. For a tax break get the SRT truck and write off up to 100% the first year. I think it has a 6,000# GVWR so it should qualify.
 

Toddh

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Re: Let\'s talk TAXES!

Brian,

If you really paid state sales tax on GGT and Luxury Tax, chances are that you're entitled to a refund of that portion of the tax. I'm not a sales tax expert, but the rule in Texas is that the sales tax is due on the invoice/sticker amount. GGT and Luxury Tax are imposed directly on the purchaser by the Federal Government and not typically subject to state level taxation.

And you can only write off the truck if it is used in a legitimate trade or business. You can't write off or deduct personal vehicle or travel expenses, including a use of a vehicle for commuting back and forth to work. It's been a while since I've looked at the Sec. 179 rules (what allows you to "write off" 100% the first year instead of depreciating it over it's "useful life"), but I think I remember there being some limitation on the deduction if there is personal use of an auto. It's definitely something that you would want to consult with a tax advisor on to make sure you're applying the rules correctly.
 

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