Looking to upgrade gen 1 suspension

[dicky]

I’m thinking about giving my 94 a suspension upgrade and I’m wondering if this plan sounds like a decent one or not.

The car is modified, I have a mild head and cam package with Belanger headers putting out 488rwhp and 500rwtq and a set of 3.73s with a trutrac.

I mostly use this car for cruising/spirited backroads and I’m getting into auto cross, I’d love to take it to a track someday too. Now that you know the use of the car help point me in the right direction.

I’m looking to add the bc coilovers, possibly a big brake kit (I only see Brembo has one $$$) with SS brake lines. I have some gen 3 wheels that I plan to have wrapped in Michelin cup 2s (240) and possibly find a poly bushing kit for the control arms. Should I replace ball joints? If so, I assume I should probably stock replacements.
After getting all the parts on the car I’d like to take it to get a good alignment for some curves.

I know very little about suspension, so I’d appreciate any help

Thanks
Derrick

 

[white out]

Coilovers. BC is a great road option. GEN1 is 31+ years old, so the shocks and bushings are definitely outside their prime. BC replaces everything on the stock shock/spring assemblies and will make the car flat in turns/accel/braking and help kill wheel hop on launch. KW also has an option for GEN1.

Ball Joints. For viper they are not cheap. The screw-in (uppers?) are available, but the press in are not. The only option for a complete set are Howe joints with the Archer revisions. If you are running your car ******* hard surfaces, it's a good idea. If you need ball joints, they are the option. If you don't need them for either of those reasons, stock is ok.

BBK. Brembo is the only. You might be able to modify GEN2 brackets for GEN1 BBK. But, I highly suggest Brembo GT front brakes if you are running 18". These are STRONG calipers and blow away any other option (I run them on my car). Bumping the rear calipers from stock to moving stock fronts to rear had a noticeable improvement in braking, but it wasn't as dramatic as upgrading the rears on GEN2s with big 4 piston fronts. I would run Brembo front BBK for a month or so before considering upgrading the rear.

I have some 18x12 & 18x13 BC Forged wheels (look like BBS LM with big lips - see avatar pic) in San Diego (might be able to have driven up to SLO) if you're interested.

Shoot me a message on parts, I have a bunch of info that isn't totally thread related. I also have some parts available.

 

[Dan Cragin]

I could work with you on a MCS system with proper spring rates and built with enough adjustment to match the spring. The BC system is fine for a budget. I worked
with them going in. I do MCS Viper for most of North America and they support the G1 application, I would love to do one for cost and the results would be night
and day better. It would be my first. PM me if interested.

 

[DickDavis]

Coilovers. BC is a great road option. GEN1 is 31+ years old, so the shocks and bushings are definitely outside their prime. BC replaces everything on the stock shock/spring assemblies and will make the car flat in turns/accel/braking and help kill wheel hop on launch. KW also has an option for GEN1.

Ball Joints. For viper they are not cheap. The screw-in (uppers?) are available, but the press in are not. The only option for a complete set are Howe joints with the Archer revisions. If you are running your car ******* hard surfaces, it's a good idea. If you need ball joints, they are the option. If you don't need them for either of those reasons, stock is ok.

BBK. Brembo is the only. You might be able to modify GEN2 brackets for GEN1 BBK. But, I highly suggest Brembo GT front brakes if you are running 18". These are STRONG calipers and blow away any other option (I run them on my car). Bumping the rear calipers from stock to moving stock fronts to rear had a noticeable improvement in braking, but it wasn't as dramatic as upgrading the rears on GEN2s with big 4 piston fronts. I would run Brembo front BBK for a month or so before considering upgrading the rear.

I have some 18x12 & 18x13 BC Forged wheels (look like BBS LM with big lips - see avatar pic) in San Diego (might be able to have driven up to SLO) if you're interested.

Shoot me a message on parts, I have a bunch of info that isn't totally thread related. I also have some parts available.

Brembo has a Gen 1 big brake kit for the front?

 

[dicky]

I could work with you on a MCS system with proper spring rates and built with enough adjustment to match the spring. The BC system is fine for a budget. I worked
with them going in. I do MCS Viper for most of North America and they support the G1 application, I would love to do one for cost and the results would be night
and day better. It would be my first. PM me if interested.

I appreciate the offer but that’s probably overkill for my skill level and my basic use of the car.

 

[dicky]

Brembo has a Gen 1 big brake kit for the front?

Brembo GT Big Brake Kits & 2-Piece Brake Rotors

Brembo Components Available:Brembo GT Big Brake Kits For GEN 2-5Brembo GT 2 Piece Rotors For GEN 3-5 Bolt On ReplacementsBrembo Rear Parking Brake Kit for GEN 2The Brembo GT big brake kits are MASSIVE compared to the OEM Brembo 4 piston calipers and 328mm x 32mm rotors. The Brembo GT brake kit...

reidperformance.com

 

[dicky]

Coilovers. BC is a great road option. GEN1 is 31+ years old, so the shocks and bushings are definitely outside their prime. BC replaces everything on the stock shock/spring assemblies and will make the car flat in turns/accel/braking and help kill wheel hop on launch. KW also has an option for GEN1.

Ball Joints. For viper they are not cheap. The screw-in (uppers?) are available, but the press in are not. The only option for a complete set are Howe joints with the Archer revisions. If you are running your car ******* hard surfaces, it's a good idea. If you need ball joints, they are the option. If you don't need them for either of those reasons, stock is ok.

BBK. Brembo is the only. You might be able to modify GEN2 brackets for GEN1 BBK. But, I highly suggest Brembo GT front brakes if you are running 18". These are STRONG calipers and blow away any other option (I run them on my car). Bumping the rear calipers from stock to moving stock fronts to rear had a noticeable improvement in braking, but it wasn't as dramatic as upgrading the rears on GEN2s with big 4 piston fronts. I would run Brembo front BBK for a month or so before considering upgrading the rear.

I have some 18x12 & 18x13 BC Forged wheels (look like BBS LM with big lips - see avatar pic) in San Diego (might be able to have driven up to SLO) if you're interested.

Shoot me a message on parts, I have a bunch of info that isn't totally thread related. I also have some parts available.

I appreciate it but I can’t afford the wheels and I already bought a set of gen 3 wheels a while back. I know they are heavy but I love the way they look on a gen 1. Haha.

 

[GTS Dean]

I would suggest you check the ball joints for looseness before just deciding to replace them. It is far more likely that your inner tie rods are loose and worn out. Get the tires off the ground, grab the wheels at 3 and 9, then shake them back and forth to feel for play and knocking. Any more than a tiny bit is too much.

Your braking can be improved with some Hawk HT-10 pads and removing the spring from the proportioning section of the combination valve. Even at full line pressure, the piston area split F/R will never get the rears to lock. I've been running my car for decades with it out. I'm not sure if it was the booster itself, or the linkage ratio that changed from Gen 1 to Gen 2, but all else being the same, the feel of the brakes was greatly improved over my Gen 1. It is one of the first things I noticed on my initial Gen2 test drive.

New suspension bushings are a MUST for a Viper that old. They were not easy cars to control when brand new, but are sketchier still with over 30 years of wear and oxidation. If you do replace them, it is very important to final-torque the shock and wishbone bushings with weight on the corners. Blocking under the lower wishbones and using slip plates under the blocks is very important for bushing performance. It makes a huge difference in handling.

It is highly likely that the nitrogen charge on the OE shocks is gone and any leakage around the shaft seals is a sure sign that you need to replace them. Even though they are single adjustable, you have to remove the shock, then the spring and bump rubber to engage the mechanism in the bottom of the shock tube for adjustment and that's a real pain. Even a cheap set of externally adjustables (damping and ride height) are better than a worn set of OE. You 'might' be able to find a good set of OE take-offs for a good price, but I still wouldn't pick them over aftermarket.

 

[white out]

Brembo has a Gen 1 big brake kit for the front?

Yeah, they brought the GEN1 system back recently.

Brembo GT Big Brake Kits & 2-Piece Brake Rotors

Brembo Components Available:Brembo GT Big Brake Kits For GEN 2-5Brembo GT 2 Piece Rotors For GEN 3-5 Bolt On ReplacementsBrembo Rear Parking Brake Kit for GEN 2The Brembo GT big brake kits are MASSIVE compared to the OEM Brembo 4 piston calipers and 328mm x 32mm rotors. The Brembo GT brake kit...

reidperformance.com

 

[dicky]

Your braking can be improved with some Hawk HT-10 pads and removing the spring from the proportioning section of the combination valve. Even at full line pressure, the piston area split F/R will never get the rears to lock. I've been running my car for decades with it out. I'm not sure if it was the booster itself, or the linkage ratio that changed from Gen 1 to Gen 2, but all else being the same, the feel of the brakes was greatly improved over my Gen 1. It is one of the first things I noticed on my initial Gen2 test drive.

New suspension bushings are a MUST for a Viper that old. They were not easy cars to control when brand new, but are sketchier still with over 30 years of wear and oxidation. If you do replace them, it is very important to final-torque the shock and wishbone bushings with weight on the corners. Blocking under the lower wishbones and using slip plates under the blocks is very important for bushing performance. It makes a huge difference in handling.

It is highly likely that the nitrogen charge on the OE shocks is gone and any leakage around the shaft seals is a sure sign that you need to replace them. Even though they are single adjustable, you have to remove the shock, then the spring and bump rubber to engage the mechanism in the bottom of the shock tube for adjustment and that's a real pain. Even a cheap set of externally adjustables (damping and ride height) are better than a worn set of OE. You 'might' be able to find a good set of OE take-offs for a good price, but I still wouldn't pick them over aftermarket.

Do you think there would be any benefit going to Brembo big brake kit over doing what you suggest? Most likely the big brake kit is overkill for how much I’ll push the car and the main use of the car.

So far I’m pretty set on bushings and bc coilovers, ss brake lines, Michelin cup r (240), then a good alignment.

I’ll check the ball joints and tie rods soon to see if I need to add those to the list.

Thanks for the helpful info.

 

[GTS Dean]

For autocrossing? No. Play with pad compounds first. Brakes just slow you down.