Monday we find out who is faster at Laguna Seca, ZR1 or Gen V

[JohnnyLightning]

Gotta add my two cents...


Geeze the zr1 is a badazz car. no shame in tying the quarter mile and loseing on the roadcourse.

The zr1 is maxed out and the viper just getting broke in.

Rest asured the viper will be faster in the 0-150 mph test. Im expecting 15.9 seconds vs 16.5 for the zr1.

Im also expecting the next mag test to show more equal or gasp the viper winning on the road course.

But rather the viper wins or not...geeze the zr1 isnt just a 49k corvette. its a 120k supervette.

What it lacks in styling interior and exoticness all went to the engine suspension and tires/brakes.

The viper gives you the styling plus interior and much more exotic status with similar performance for 10k less base price.

Ive seen plenty of used zr1s for 70k. still have no desire for one for the reasons posted above.

Now a genv.....good lord I want one bad. so do my lambo and gtr buddies who have no interest in the zr1

15.9??? Dude seriously I know people are still hopeful but jezzz. ZR1 maxed out please elaborate. GTR people don't see the new Viper as anything to worry about plus the Lambo owners I know are pushing 1600awhp so they have completely different goals like Gen I, II & III owners possible do.

 

[Indy]

SRT boss Ralph Gilles: “We’ve tested both cars at several tracks and never seen a gap like that”, he tweeted, adding that “many drivers needlessly fear the Viper”, “there’s a lot more left in the car, Randy has always struggled with the Viper” and “raise your game and you’ll find the last 10 percent”.

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/12/new-viper-loses-to-corvette-zr1-in-mt.html

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Great day in New Zealand. Summer is here! If I am not mistaken....were we not in a roll call to end this thread? On a serious note...I have not seen any turtles or Trans Ams here...New Zealand versions of rice cars....yes.

Speaking about Trans Ams the song Gold Trans Am by Kesha kicks ass pretty bad

 

[bigmack339]

The Car and Drivel comparison of the 2006 SRT-10 vs. the 2006 Z06 was pretty much the same B.S. as this mess. Fanatics still purchased all the Vipers they could get. The vette is cheap, cheap, cheap. It is mass produced and has no soul. It is easy to live with but plain as hell for the price.

 

[chorps]

Not going to bash the Vette, it's a great car, sells way more than the Viper and the ZR1 and Z06 are fast and competent.

I did cancel my pre-order for my 1977 Trans Am though. Not sure what I'll be driving to the disco now...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Paolo Castellano]

....The earlier vipers ...BLEW the doors off the competitors...not by mere margins...comon guys...is that all you need to make this car the king of the street?

Not in my opinion. This new Viper would need to leave those guys so far back that it would take years for them to catch up. The same thing that the 96 and gen 2's did until 2006. 13 years later when the ZO6 could compete with it. 13 years !!! Thats fact not opinion..........

The Viper not having the DCT and AWD would need to have more like 800 HP to be superior by the same margin as the 1996 GTS's back in the day.

The only problem is that with the advent of forced induction on a lot of the other platforms out there it would take very little for them to just up the boost and bridge the gap rather quickly. Even if the Viper got 700 HP, a few more lbs of boost on a ZR-1 or GTR would be all it would take to match the performance of the 700.

As far as the road course would be concerned, there should be a carbon ceramic brake package that, with additional power would make the Viper unbeatable on the road course with most tracks only needing a few PSI if it were boosted.

The other thing we need to remember is that the faster lap times get, the more difficult it is to be 2 seconds faster. The faster cars get, the smaller the increments will be between cars/brands.

Superchargers are easier to package for the OEM's, but have their limitations for how much power they can make not to mention the additional drag they impart to the engine to make the power they make. It will take approximately 90-100 HP at the crank to make the 800 RWHP with a supercharger. This will be additional stress on the stock engine that could translate into 90-100 additional ponies towards performance or a super safe tune to make the 800-850 RWHP with a pair of turbochargers.

I think the Gen V needs to have a Twin Turbo option that will make a minimum of 650-850 RWHP on the new forged motor. A large cube motor like the Viper V-10 would be hard to beat by any other platform boost for boost, pump gas to pump gas, race gas to race gas. If the turbo system were configured properly, the car could run super cool and have the proper turbo sizing to still have instant torque ie no lag as it does N/A to make it a rocket ship out of the corners as well as down the long straights at the Nurburgring! Can anybody envision the Viper hitting 250 MPH down the straights at the Nurburgring? I can! The Koenigsegg has already done it!

 

[Moundir]

Are you kidding, we don't need a freakin a 10k carbon brake upgrade, or more horsepower when we have 15k paint option! Duh, what do you think the viper is, a performance, no holds bar, white knuckle driving, kick ass machine? Dude, I rather have a pretty red viper with shiny options and pretty leather that I can now drive in the rain or snow!

Signed,
"new breed of viper owners"

 

[sonofadragracer]

Are you kidding, we don't need a freakin a 10k carbon brake upgrade, or more horsepower when we have 15k paint option! Duh, what do you think the viper is, a performance, no holds bar, white knuckle driving, kick ass machine? Dude, I rather have a pretty red viper with shiny options and pretty leather that I can now drive in the rain or snow!

Signed,
"new breed of viper owners"

I can't wait to take first at the local car stereo show!

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Paolo is very correct.Having had 3 Vipers,a ZR1 and a C6 Z06.I can tell you the only thing that will make the new Viper compete is a DCT with Turbos/Blower and a LC systems that works.Also the carbon brakes.These new cars(911 Turbo S/GTRs) with the DCT,AWD and LC are insane fast very easy and safe to drive at limit.Go drive one and you will see what I mean.To bad they(SRT) did not do just a little more with the HP/Brakes with the Gen.5 to make it compete.I hope they complete their assignment for the 2014 models Vipers,then I will think about getting one again.

 

[bluestreak]

Finally a non-ignorant bench-racing fanboy post. Competition is 10x greater than it was back then.

The Viper not having the DCT and AWD would need to have more like 800 HP to be superior by the same margin as the 1996 GTS's back in the day.

The only problem is that with the advent of forced induction on a lot of the other platforms out there it would take very little for them to just up the boost and bridge the gap rather quickly. Even if the Viper got 700 HP, a few more lbs of boost on a ZR-1 or GTR would be all it would take to match the performance of the 700.

As far as the road course would be concerned, there should be a carbon ceramic brake package that, with additional power would make the Viper unbeatable on the road course with most tracks only needing a few PSI if it were boosted.

The other thing we need to remember is that the faster lap times get, the more difficult it is to be 2 seconds faster. The faster cars get, the smaller the increments will be between cars/brands.

Superchargers are easier to package for the OEM's, but have their limitations for how much power they can make not to mention the additional drag they impart to the engine to make the power they make. It will take approximately 90-100 HP at the crank to make the 800 RWHP with a supercharger. This will be additional stress on the stock engine that could translate into 90-100 additional ponies towards performance or a super safe tune to make the 800-850 RWHP with a pair of turbochargers.

I think the Gen V needs to have a Twin Turbo option that will make a minimum of 650-850 RWHP on the new forged motor. A large cube motor like the Viper V-10 would be hard to beat by any other platform boost for boost, pump gas to pump gas, race gas to race gas. If the turbo system were configured properly, the car could run super cool and have the proper turbo sizing to still have instant torque ie no lag as it does N/A to make it a rocket ship out of the corners as well as down the long straights at the Nurburgring! Can anybody envision the Viper hitting 250 MPH down the straights at the Nurburgring? I can! The Koenigsegg has already done it!

 

[TrackAire]

Are you kidding, we don't need a freakin a 10k carbon brake upgrade, or more horsepower when we have 15k paint option! Duh, what do you think the viper is, a performance, no holds bar, white knuckle driving, kick ass machine? Dude, I rather have a pretty red viper with shiny options and pretty leather that I can now drive in the rain or snow!

Signed,
"new breed of viper owners"

Dear Mr. Moundir,

Your custom monogrammed Gucci Gen V driving shoes should arrive on your doorstep tomorrow, just in time for Christmas. Thank you for your order.

Signed,

SRT Style & Image Team

 

[Moundir]

Paolo is very correct.Having had 3 Vipers,a ZR1 and a C6 Z06.I can tell you the only thing that will make the new Viper compete is a DCT with Turbos/Blower and a LC systems that works.Also the carbon brakes.These new cars(911 Turbo S/GTRs) with the DCT,AWD and LC are insane fast very easy and safe to drive at limit.Go drive one and you will see what I mean.To bad they(SRT) did not do just a little more with the HP/Brakes with the Gen.5 to make it compete.I hope they complete their assignment for the 2014 models Vipers,then I will think about getting one again.

Finally a non-ignorant bench-racing fanboy post. Competition is 10x greater than it was back then.

Agreed 1000%!! Paolo is an old school nut that bought his vipers for the same reason we all did 15-20 years ago! to go fast!!! It's time for DODGE to step up!

Dear Mr. Moundir,

Your custom monogrammed Gucci Gen V driving shoes should arrive on your doorstep tomorrow, just in time for Christmas. Thank you for your order.

Signed,

SRT Style & Image Team

Fing hilarious! unfortunately, this is where fiat is heading with our beloved snake

 

[Boxer12]

I suspect Fiat has its eyes on the podium of LeMans A win there would be a bit more significant than a MT review and SRT might see a jump in sales

 

[ScrewDrvr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lK_b-5gerM

 

[v10enomous]

The car is already awesome and it has so much more potential in it. What stands out is the relative ease of steering compared to the Farnbacher's record run. It's tough to imagine that anyone standing in front of a Gen V and and a ZR1 with $100K+ in hand would pick the corvette or even a 911

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lK_b-5gerM

 

[Coloviper]

American thumbs up cost it 2 seconds in lap time. Ha! Ha! Was like watching WWE. 2 seconds back or not, it looked damn good out there. Wish I had the scratch!

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

With well over 32000 views so far on this post and opinions, I would hope SRT by now has taken notice and making changes as necessary to get this new car out in front of the ZR1 in all accounts before deliveries.

 

[bluestreak]

I'm going to play instigator in light of the recent verbal sparring between SRT and MotorTrend.

Grab your stopwatch and time the more recent videos for the Laguna lap where Randy is driving (like 2009/10-present). You will notice that in spite of the editing, they run the laps in real time, meaning if you clock it by hand it will be the same time as they claim. Much of it is the actual footage of the laps.

The Viper's time is 1:41 (or WAY slower than they claim). What this means is that they did not show us the hot lap like they do on the other cars, maybe a little insecure about the footage. They are not showing us the goods. If we see the hot lap we can see what's going on with the car/driver interaction. We would be able to see if Randy had to put a bunch of steering input into the car if that Toe was really out, we could see how hard he was pushing. Video tells us a lot.

I'd like to see the real video once they publish the times on the laguna lap page. That was not it.

 

[JohnnyLightning]

Finally a non-ignorant bench-racing fanboy post. Competition is 10x greater than it was back then.

Bench racing blahblahblah since you claim everyone who doesn't like the new viper ignorant look in the mirror. Competition 10x greater what planet you come from? 1996 let me see Supras, NSX, 997 AWD TT, 95 Cobra R, 95 ZR1, I can keep going. The issue is Ford makes a mustang with more HP than the Gen V so therefore its a fail.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Bench racing blahblahblah since you claim everyone who doesn't like the new viper ignorant look in the mirror. Competition 10x greater what planet you come from? 1996 let me see Supras, NSX, 997 AWD TT, 95 Cobra R, 95 ZR1, I can keep going. The issue is Ford makes a mustang with more HP than the Gen V so therefore its a fail.

Never heard of Power-To-Weight ratio?

 

[bluestreak]

Bench racing blahblahblah since you claim everyone who doesn't like the new viper ignorant look in the mirror. Competition 10x greater what planet you come from? 1996 let me see Supras, NSX, 997 AWD TT, 95 Cobra R, 95 ZR1, I can keep going. The issue is Ford makes a mustang with more HP than the Gen V so therefore its a fail.

I'm glad you recognized who I was talking about. I'm not saying you need to like the Viper but if you don't like it because it doesn't make 800hp you are only making yourself look bad.

997 AWD TT in 1996???? Foot in mouth much? None of the cars you mention were beating up on the exotic supercars of the time like they are now. Half million dollar supercars getting beat down regularly by the cars we see and talk about all the time. You clearly don't even know cars well enough to even provide a decent argument. Just another magazine bench racer.

 

[ViperSmith]

And yet, a 1000Hp mustang will still be a mustang

 

[slitherv10]

I'm glad you recognized who I was talking about. I'm not saying you need to like the Viper but if you don't like it because it doesn't make 800hp you are only making yourself look bad.

997 AWD TT in 1996???? Foot in mouth much? None of the cars you mention were beating up on the exotic supercars of the time like they are now. Half million dollar supercars getting beat down regularly by the cars we see and talk about all the time. You clearly don't even know cars well enough to even provide a decent argument. Just another magazine bench racer.

Well I gotta add that in 1996 and there abouts, other than the 95-96 Porsche turbo and 97 S model which had better 0-60 times but slower 1/4mile times(other than the 97)...the Viper GTS was KING. No super car..not the Diablo VT, Not the Ferrari,although the f40/50 gave it a run, no ZR1 or Mustang. Infact most of those exotics took a few years if not a decade to compete with the 1996 Viper. We were waaaay ahead of our time with that car as far as Performance was concerned. I think we all were expecting the same BIg Bang Theory,if I may call it", this time around again because of all the hoopla that the SRT team had put around this car for 2 years. All the silence and hiding they did for years of this car, made us think it was going to be out of this world. They did too much talk and not enough walk. Not showing performance numbers but asking us to spend @130000 on a car seemed too suspicous in my eyes anyway. I tried to think of that tactic from SRT as a positive one. One that would blow our minds in the end when the numbers and tests came about.
I just think the drumroll was played way to long by SRT and thus the ignorance on our end. *** for tat I guess.
Too much rides on this supercar....to much history....the history where the Viper is known as the leader for others to follow. In this case it just looks like a follower. At this point anyway.

It remains to be seen with more tests and real time where this car will end up in history. Hopefully it will fullfill the huge shoes of the 1992, 1996 GTS and 2010 ACR. This in my opinion were the cars that went waaaay ahead of the competition. Not merely beating them or losing because of tire selection,brakes or drivers. "MERELY" is not good enough for the viper world. Thus the comments.

On a good note...........Long Live the Viper !! Thanks SRT.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I concur with slitherv10. There was a whole lot of hype SRT doled out about this car. Launch control will have you winning etc from what I recall an engineer saying. Rumors of it being as fast or faster than the ACR. That tweet from Ralph about it coming in MUCH lighter so the springs had the early cars sitting too high etc. All the hoopla about how much stiffer and better the suspension is on and on and on. All the intial love the press gave the car after they drove it etc. Lets be honest we all expected a better showing. Even the owners, that are angry at posters like me for stating the obvious about the outcome, expected it to beat the ZR1 because we all drank the koolaid. The first review did not live up to the hype but I'm of the mind "now" to wait and see what others will get when they test the Viper. Ive always been snake bitten with the Viper and just expected it to deliver as it did in the past.

However it was still a pre-production car MT tested so hopefully the production versions they will test in the future will resemble some of the hype we heard. Maybe Launch Control will resemble what the engineer stated. Maybe it will prove to be faster than the ACR on "some" tracks. Maybe the 640hp will be underrated like in the past etc. Maybe the brake and tire package will be up to the task. I think we all expected more than 640hp and the car could easily make more than that. Also with 8.4 ltrs there is more than enough room to increase the hp as they years go by if they started at 675hp with the Gen V. Maybe Fiat is restraining them performancewise? 640hp with the proper brake and tire could have worked though.

IMHO 675hp, proper brake and tires with a good driver and the Gen V would have been where the GTS was back in the day. Dominant even against the new breed of awd/dct "stock to stock". Dont care about the GTR's, ZR1's doing mods to equal or beat it as thats another game entirely. Stock to stock the Viper could have been as dominant as the original GTS if SRT wanted it to be for the same money.

 

[Jack B]

First off, Merry Xmas to all those in this thread that have shown constructive imput in a positive fashion. Secondly, the following is not meant out of disrespect for anyone. Also keep in mind I have owned both a Gen I and Gen II. My wife is a non car person with no dog in this fight, I had her peruse these threads and I then asked her to give me a a short description of the motivation behind the negative posts.

MOTIVATION FOR POSTING

Ignorance, stupidity, total moronotosus has set in
Hate
Jealousy
Short term memory loss (multiple post saying same thing) (multiple posts say same thing and being the same fool)
Napoleon complex
Works for GM
Owns or wants A GM Volt
Cannot afford a Gen V
Inter Viper platform jealousy
Banned from all other car forums
Laughed at on all other car forums
Don't know when they are being laughed at by friends and family
Envy
Thought Benedict Arnold was a hero
Voted for Obama
Think Mayor Bloomberg is an American hero
Think that Acorn is a nut
Posted during down time when picketing in Michigan during the signing of the "right to work" law
Have not yet received their "fair share"
Suffer from Humanus Slackass Erictis (pants on the ground)

For those haters in this thread, which description describes you? Perhaps you fall into multiple selections. Merry Xmas and please go back to your spider holes.

 

[Moundir]

Good points snake bitten and slitherv10! Im starting to think with its limited budget SRT gambled and spent all their chips on the interior and bs options that do nothing for performance hoping to go after a whole new breed of viper owners! Ralph is is a very smart guy, and he didn't get to where he is not knowing how us die hards feel. As a die hard fanatic, I don't mind a better interior and a little more refinement, I welcome it. I just mind it at the expense of performance gains! It's sad to see that we have 7k interior options, a 3k radio upgrade, and a 15k paint upgrade and nothing much for performance gains this why the fancy upscale gts got spanked by a 4 yr old corvette! It's unacceptable and it's embarrassing! SRT and some owners just need to stop with the bs excuses and take a hard look in the mirror! I don't want to hear, well at least we still have a viper and we should be thankful for fiat saving our viper. That's garbage, I rather have seen our beloved snake die on top of the performance world than come back as a half assed Ferrari wannabe I hope Ralph and SRT are listening! Bah! Hambug!

 

[JohnnyLightning]

Never heard of Power-To-Weight ratio?

So power-to-weight ratio is all that matters? If so why is the GTR heavier and less power out run the Viper. Oh weight that's right AWD just like the 997TT.

 

[JohnnyLightning]

I'm glad you recognized who I was talking about. I'm not saying you need to like the Viper but if you don't like it because it doesn't make 800hp you are only making yourself look bad.

997 AWD TT in 1996???? Foot in mouth much? None of the cars you mention were beating up on the exotic supercars of the time like they are now. Half million dollar supercars getting beat down regularly by the cars we see and talk about all the time. You clearly don't even know cars well enough to even provide a decent argument. Just another magazine bench racer.

993TT runs door to door to the F50 at only 110k which both were built in 96. The McLaren was the only real supercar made in 1996. Half million dollar supercars getting beat down? From which stand point because Aventador from 0-60 to mile runs away from anything around 150k and below on 4 wheels. Bench racer anytime you in NC let me know.

 

[bushido]

I concur with slitherv10. There was a whole lot of hype SRT doled out about this car. Launch control will have you winning etc from what I recall an engineer saying. Rumors of it being as fast or faster than the ACR. That tweet from Ralph about it coming in MUCH lighter so the springs had the early cars sitting too high etc. All the hoopla about how much stiffer and better the suspension is on and on and on. All the intial love the press gave the car after they drove it etc. Lets be honest we all expected a better showing. Even the owners, that are angry at posters like me for stating the obvious about the outcome, expected it to beat the ZR1 because we all drank the koolaid. The first review did not live up to the hype but I'm of the mind "now" to wait and see what others will get when they test the Viper. Ive always been snake bitten with the Viper and just expected it to deliver as it did in the past.

However it was still a pre-production car MT tested so hopefully the production versions they will test in the future will resemble some of the hype we heard. Maybe Launch Control will resemble what the engineer stated. Maybe it will prove to be faster than the ACR on "some" tracks. Maybe the 640hp will be underrated like in the past etc. Maybe the brake and tire package will be up to the task. I think we all expected more than 640hp and the car could easily make more than that. Also with 8.4 ltrs there is more than enough room to increase the hp as they years go by if they started at 675hp with the Gen V. Maybe Fiat is restraining them performancewise? 640hp with the proper brake and tire could have worked though.

IMHO 675hp, proper brake and tires with a good driver and the Gen V would have been where the GTS was back in the day. Dominant even against the new breed of awd/dct "stock to stock". Dont care about the GTR's, ZR1's doing mods to equal or beat it as thats another game entirely. Stock to stock the Viper could have been as dominant as the original GTS if SRT wanted it to be for the same money.

Good points man yes X2 on the car being over hyped. That is why I'm not going to be buying the 1st year model. Gonna wait another year or possibly two. Hopefully SRT will make those changes ^^ mentioned^^..

 

[eucharistos]

i know of at least six 1977 trans ams that have leaky t tops

my '79 leaked too