More test results (hint: close, but Viper wins again)

[DII]

Further, the Viper's competitors Z06 Enzo etc. benefit from traction or stability control. The reality is that without electronic aids, as the hp goes up in the Viper, it will require higher levels of driver skill to balance traction with horsepower/torque.

And you know what? I kinda like that.

/Rich

Rich, the one thing I can't help but wonder is what the Viper would do with a few of the electronic systems. With the 08's power and weight, it truly think it would be able to topple some heavy imported brass of their respective pedestals.

A lot of the cars with the power (599GTB, etc) and electronic aids perform well, but weigh so much more than the Viper.

Brute power is a thrill ride of course but for the purpose of comparison, I'd love to see the Viper with some aids, or even some sort of 4wd.

I don't think cars costing 4x the price would be able to keep pace.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Rich, the one thing I can't help but wonder is what the Viper would do with a few of the electronic systems. With the 08's power and weight, it truly think it would be able to topple some heavy imported brass of their respective pedestals.

A lot of the cars with the power (599GTB, etc) and electronic aids perform well, but weigh so much more than the Viper.

Brute power is a thrill ride of course but for the purpose of comparison, I'd love to see the Viper with some aids, or even some sort of 4wd.

I don't think cars costing 4x the price would be able to keep pace.

Even Formula one drivers have traction control, at least for this year and their the best driver in the world.

Now where is that flame suit?

 

[rcl4668]

Rich, the one thing I can't help but wonder is what the Viper would do with a few of the electronic systems. With the 08's power and weight, it truly think it would be able to topple some heavy imported brass of their respective pedestals.

A lot of the cars with the power (599GTB, etc) and electronic aids perform well, but weigh so much more than the Viper.

Brute power is a thrill ride of course but for the purpose of comparison, I'd love to see the Viper with some aids, or even some sort of 4wd.

I don't think cars costing 4x the price would be able to keep pace.

I hear what you're saying. I think the thing to note is your comment about cars getting heavier. While not due entirely to the addition of electronic aids such as traction control, the reality is that adding such safety devices and/or convenience items is the catch 22 with regard to weight: Adding air bags, traction control etc adds weight. In fact, adding horsepower through larger and more complicated engines (variable valve timing, overhead cams, four valves per cylinder) adds weight. This leads to a ripple effect throughout the remainder of the car (e.g., larger and heavier brakes which are necessary to haul the more powerful car down to a stop).

That's why cars like the Lotus Exige/Elise are a rarity today: The car is fairly quick yet light and it doesn't need the heavier engine or brake package as a result.

I know I too will be labeled a relic by some on this board but I did buy the Viper mainly because it is one of the last holdouts that use the basic formula of the ac cobra: convertible, lightweight body (ok -- I know this is bit of a stretch at 3400 lbs) while relying on a large engine, good suspension and large tire contact patches to keep everything on the road. Personally, if the Viper adopted a lot of the electronic assists used by the Corvette, Porsche and Ferarris, etc. there would be a lot less to distinguish the Viper from the rest of the sports cars on the market.

Now pardon me while I slip into my flame suit.

/Rich

 

[Warfang]

I didn't see such a post, but several tuners have told me that 3.55s really don't lower the Viper's 1/4 mi time because any gain in quickness is given back with additional shifting (when the engine gains rpms to the redline like a knife through butter, then you know you're not putting enough load on the engine for max acceleration) ... but, many believe that 3.33 gears, which not too high, are kind of the 'sweet spot' for the Viper ... they made my '05 (475 rwhp) feel like a sling-shot.

Here's the thread. I suppose it's still up for debate.

http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=605648

 

[bluestreak]

Keeping the costs down, I think DC did a great job maintaining the Viper`s weight. The '08 Z06 actually gained 32lbs., despite GM saving 20++ lbs. (?) moving from aluminum to a new magnesium K-member ('07 3,130 '08 3,162). Much of this added weight came from the TR-6060, which is much heavier than the T-56. Fully optioned, the '08 Z06's new upgraded interior and 3LZ options add even more weight over the 07 Z06.

If one were to take a Z06 and upgrade the suspension, calipers/rotors, wheels/tires, transaxle, etc. to match those on a Viper, they would be adding quite a bit more weight to the Z06, approaching the weight of a Viper - less the 160 lbs. the Z06 lost from the base Vette, as a result of the aluminum chassis. At 3,400 lbs., the Viper is a light weight to all other cars having 500 hp (near its price range). The Z06 is a one-of-a-kind fly weight, at the expense of some durability on the track.

Good post man, it's hard for a track guy to take a car that wont stay together on the track seriously, there are just too many potential issues with the Z to track it IMO unless you are going to do a major overhaul.

However I think that some gears and about 100 lbs weight savings would have made it LIGHTS OUT GOODNIGHT for the Z06, as it stands now I think the victory will be marginal but let's face it these cars are in a league that you dont win by much any more, even the blue devil wont be all that fast on some street tires in a 1/4 mile, you can only see these cars FULL capability with stickies on them.

 

[bluestreak]

Rich, the one thing I can't help but wonder is what the Viper would do with a few of the electronic systems. With the 08's power and weight, it truly think it would be able to topple some heavy imported brass of their respective pedestals.

A lot of the cars with the power (599GTB, etc) and electronic aids perform well, but weigh so much more than the Viper.

Brute power is a thrill ride of course but for the purpose of comparison, I'd love to see the Viper with some aids, or even some sort of 4wd.

I don't think cars costing 4x the price would be able to keep pace.

AWD would make the viper easier to drive, but for a car that already hase a sizeable turning radius, a pushing car wouldnt help and with all that turque, the car WOULD push quite a bit. I dont think AWD would work on the Viper, and that would also open the door for DSG's (paddle shifter) and other stuff which I think is over the top However I wouldnt object to Dodge making a more refined sports car.

Nanny's dont make you faster, limited slip differentials may be the only thing that help, but I dont consider that a nanny. Nannies make you safer, and maybe more consistent, but when driving at the limit, they take the ability away from the driver, not add to it, useful for noobs but not much else.

I'm hope you arent reffering to straight line only though, which for 650 hp I would take a v08' viper over a 599GTB on a road course all day.

 

[Warfang]

...I wouldnt object to Dodge making a more refined sports car.

Pray they bring back the ME412. I'd get behind that... nannytech, paddle shifters and all!

Leave the Viper raw... as God intended.

 

[bluestreak]

Pray they bring back the ME412. I'd get behind that... nannytech, paddle shifters and all!

Leave the Viper raw... as God intended.

I can live with that.


We should hope they make and ACR with about 3200 lbs and 650 hp (intake, exhaust) and all the racing gear, I'd take that to the bank all day.