Next phase

[I Bin Therbefor]

IMHO, once we get the Viper well and truly launched. Here's what I'd like to see:

A radically improved dealer network adding value to the ownership experience. On second thought, I'd like to see this right now.

DI. I know the problems with applying it to a two valve push rod engine BUT it can be done.

A trans similar to the Audi S Tronic. For those not familiar with this design, here's Audi's explanation. “The new 7-speed S tronic, with a three-shaft layout, is less than 23.62 inches in length. Two multi-plate clutches lying behind one another, serve two mutually independent sub-transmissions; gears are shifted directly as the clutches alternately open and close. Gearshifting occurs practically without interruption of tractive power within hundredths of a second, and so dynamically, smoothly and comfortably as to be hardly noticeable.” "In translation what this means is that when you gun this car, there is no loss of power during upshifts."

 

[viper GTS-R]

I don't think there's a problem with the current 6-speed. If anything most guys that race their cars barely get to 5th. 2nd and 3rd gear get used the most. The only cars on the planet that really use 7th gear to it's max are formula one cars. Most cars that have 7-8th gears are for gaining a extra mile per gallon or two, so that's really the only benefit I see using those kinds of transmissions other than costing you a few more thousand.

--RS

 

[BigDawg]

Meh. If you are gonna put any automated type transmission I'd like to be sourced from Ferrari, such as for their XX racing programs. I'm not 100% sure on the terminology so I will leave it out, but none of these fancy automatics. For instance, I know the Lamborghini E-gear and Ferrari flappy paddles are the real deal. However, the paddle shifters in your average car now are really just manual shifting for an advanced automatic with no tangible benefits over driving in automatic mode. I hope that makes sense...

edit: Fat chance Ferrari will ever let a Viper eclipse their top cars in most performance categories.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Difficult to find a DCT than can handle the kind of torque the Viper produces. They can also be heavy and expensive to maintain.

 

[garetjax1]

Meh. If you are gonna put any automated type transmission I'd like to be sourced from Ferrari, such as for their XX racing programs. I'm not 100% sure on the terminology so I will leave it out, but none of these fancy automatics. For instance, I know the Lamborghini E-gear and Ferrari flappy paddles are the real deal. However, the paddle shifters in your average car now are really just manual shifting for an advanced automatic with no tangible benefits over driving in automatic mode. I hope that makes sense...

edit: Fat chance Ferrari will ever let a Viper eclipse their top cars in most performance categories.

I think the problem with the Ferrari/Lambo flappy paddle transmissions is that they are both single-clutch systems that eat clutches like candy. Clutch life has improved, but we are still talking ~25k miles tops towards the higher end of the spectrum. I've read horror stories of lambo/ferrari owners replacing their clutches after 1-5k miles for between 6k-10k $. Granted, there is the human factor involved in clutch life, but still... Torque considerations aside, I can't see Viper going with the single-clutch systems used in these exotics simply because they result in really high maintenance costs. The Porsche PDK uses a double-clutch system, but I haven't really read anything about how long the clutches last in these systems, but am very curious.

 

[Austin]

I cringe every time I see/hear someone mention wanting to put an auto/paddle shifter in the Viper. Ugh.

 

[garetjax1]

I cringe every time I see/hear someone mention wanting to put an auto/paddle shifter in the Viper. Ugh.

I hear ya... I had a DCT on my M3 and it really felt uninvolving for the most part, though being able to downshift seamlessly was pretty cool... I sold the car 3 months after I got it.

 

[Detlef]

Cost issues aside, am wondering what the transmission in the GTS-R does to clutches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkV4RfmY-l0

I think the problem with the Ferrari/Lambo flappy paddle transmissions is that they are both single-clutch systems that eat clutches like candy. Clutch life has improved, but we are still talking ~25k miles tops towards the higher end of the spectrum. I've read horror stories of lambo/ferrari owners replacing their clutches after 1-5k miles for between 6k-10k $. Granted, there is the human factor involved in clutch life, but still... Torque considerations aside, I can't see Viper going with the single-clutch systems used in these exotics simply because they result in really high maintenance costs. The Porsche PDK uses a double-clutch system, but I haven't really read anything about how long the clutches last in these systems, but am very curious.

 

[garetjax1]

Yah, I would love to know as well!!! It seems like most racing applications require a partial/complete rebuild of key components so I have to think clutch life is not a factor beyond getting through the next race. Baseless Speculation on my part...

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

The Xtrac trans that the GTS-R (and Corvette) uses, among others, is a trans axel i.e. it has been moved to the rear. Further, when operated correctly, it actually improves clutch life over that of a manual operated system. I'm not sure which specific unit Viper uses but here's the Xtrac home page.

http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsport/sportscar

Here's a street trans that Xtrac makes for use in mid/rear super cars.

http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/automotive-engineering/automotive/product/76

I'm not sure what can be learned by comparing the track experience of a racing unit with a street trans that Viper may use. However, I do like the two multiplate clutch idea.

 

[BigDawg]

I cringe every time I see/hear someone mention wanting to put an auto/paddle shifter in the Viper. Ugh.

I've been that way for a long time but I'm also a realist. Ralph's goals for the Viper (targeting new demographics and increasing production) indicate something will be in the works for that. He's already "toned down" the look of the GTS with a less aggressive and more elegant (a word the Viper should know nothing of) hood...to really get those Porsche clowns the Viper is going to need some type of automatic transmission.

What I am saying is if you are gonna do it, do it right. I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the technology but if it's possible I'd like to see the race technology in the car...not some automatic with a manual shifting feature.

 

[B & R]

On at least my 4th gen, 3rd and 4th are the most used gears, 2nd is best used carefully!!!

Richard

 

[viper GTS-R]

On at least my 4th gen, 3rd and 4th are the most used gears, 2nd is best used carefully!!!

Richard

I never took factory gears into consideration this morning when I posted, D'OH!

I was thinking a modded set of gears, guess it depends on the driver and track. I don't like short courses, more or less a mile-and-half kind of guy. I've seen one ACR-X run at Charlotte Motor Speedway last year during some NASA races and it was flying. Think it started 7th and finished 3rd. Good stuff!

--RS

 

[mnc2886]

I hope I'm not alone when I say that I don't want driving a Viper to be no different than just playing a video game....which is exactly what driving a high end Italian car is now. Keep the stick shift in place.

 

[ACRucrazy]

K.I.S.S. and money in my pocket please.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

I cringe every time I see/hear someone mention wanting to put an auto/paddle shifter in the Viper. Ugh.

Why? If the buyer wants it and it will improve sales then where is the downside? If it means that it will broaden the marketability and demographics, then where is the downside? If they offer it, those that want an automatic will get it. Those who don't won't. Also, Porsche and Audi seem to be doing great with their automatics with the PDK and S-Tronics. When looking for a new demographic, it helps to broaden the options.

 

[BigDawg]

Why? If the buyer wants it and it will improve sales then where is the downside? If it means that it will broaden the marketability and demographics, then where is the downside? If they offer it, those that want an automatic will get it. Those who don't won't. Also, Porsche and Audi seem to be doing great with their automatics with the PDK and S-Tronics. When looking for a new demographic, it helps to broaden the options.

The downside is exactly what you posted. To me, and I assume many others based on their posts, one of the greatest appeals about the Viper is that it does NOT appeal to the masses. That's a plus, not a minus. The Viper was not invited to play with the rest of the pack (Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Corvette, etc.), but more important, it didn't want to. The Viper did what it wanted and said F U to the "competition". The more the new Viper targets other demographics, the more it says "can I play too" instead of doing what it wanted. I liked the Viper for being a non-conformist.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the issue for you without me beating a dead horse too much.

 

[bcmarly]

Ferrari uses a double clutch and lambo uses a single clutch transmission. While the shifts are buttery smooth in the Ferrari, the lambo's are brutal and sounds like the tranny is going to explode. Both are subject to software glitches and when they occur it's a frightening experience. I much prefer a smooth well synchronized manual and as others have posted, it is much more involving. Then, when you add heel and towing to your shifts, it's hard to beat. I see the Viper as more of a purist's car. Ralph said that no automated manual could handle the Viper's torque load, but the Bugatti Veyron at $1,000,000 plus handles 1000 feet pounds of torque!! I just want the new Viper to be well executed and if it is I will be very happy.

 

[bcmarly]

The GTS R above....that must be the new gun metal grey? Nice!

 

[SADVIPER]

essentially, for the Viper I'd always like manual stick shifter.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

The downside is exactly what you posted. To me, and I assume many others based on their posts, one of the greatest appeals about the Viper is that it does NOT appeal to the masses. That's a plus, not a minus. The Viper was not invited to play with the rest of the pack (Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, Corvette, etc.), but more important, it didn't want to. The Viper did what it wanted and said F U to the "competition". The more the new Viper targets other demographics, the more it says "can I play too" instead of doing what it wanted. I liked the Viper for being a non-conformist.

Hopefully that sheds some light on the issue for you without me beating a dead horse too much.

Actually I know exactly why I said what I did. I love driving a manual myself. But what you fail to understand is that from a business sense it makes more to make the car available to more. Notice that the Porsches, Ferraris cater to their customers and potential customers and try to increase their customer base. If I don't want an automatic, then so be it. But what I really don't want is someone trying to dictate what I will drive. You drive what you want and I will drive what I want. As stated, I prefer to drive a stick but that may not be true for someone else. Also, the things I quoted were showing that with the automatic, shift times were almost nill. Funny, but try and tell that the autos in the Porsches, Audis and GTR can't get the job done.

Once again, if we as Viper lovers, want to see this car stick around. It will have to appeal to a larger crowd. There is the core group that would still have it running without ABS, then there are the ones who would say why stop there, no A/C. That same core wold amount to a very small amount. Hey, if you expect to be competitive, you have to meet the demand. If you were selling a product, would you limit it to a small select few? No, of course not if you expect to stay in business. If ST were to add an AUTO, would it impact you? Would it impact you driving your stick? Nope.