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OK. One of U out there must be working on boost. Give it up.

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by Bobpantax, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    We know from Dick Winkles that the Gen V engine was built to take boost. We also know that there is no calibration yet available to add boost. But, I know that there has got to be someone out there who can't stand it any longer and who is working on adding boost to a Gen V - perhaps with Arrow or Arrington? Who is that person? Give it up. Tell the story so far.
     
  2. mnc2886

    mnc2886 Enthusiast

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    Wasn't someone claiming to see a engine at Arrow with Winkle's name on it that had a Paxton on it?
     
  3. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    That turned out to be a Gen IV customer of Mark J at Woodhouse.
     
  4. mnc2886

    mnc2886 Enthusiast

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    Ah...or was it????!!!!????
     
  5. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    It really was and a close look at the photo showed it to be the case.
     
  6. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Rumors say SRT is developing a dealership-installed blower system for the Gen V. I can't wait.
     
  7. viper GTS-R

    viper GTS-R Enthusiast

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    Ugh, why? So they can charge 3x more than aftermarket and offer you a whopping two-year warranty?

    --RS
     
  8. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    Interesting. Wish it was a turbo instead but Im glad at least some boost may be an option in the future. Im guessing it would be in the neighborhood of 750hp+. They will just need to refine the suspension dynamics and braking system and the under 500k automotive world have a serious problem on their hands
     
  9. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    People are already buying $15K paint options. They will line up for a blower kit, too. 750 hp with a factory warranty? Sign me up.
     
  10. mjorgensen Woodhouse

    mjorgensen Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

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    Actually the opposite, it is to save money on the system rather then going through Mopar with it. Plus there is the benefit of some sort of backing with the system and install, which many GenV buyers would be more comfortable doing I bet.


     
  11. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    Sorry, can't buy the fact that a car dealership would modify a car and open themselves up to lawsuits and the rath of the EPA. Such a computer that would allow this type of "off-road only" use does'nt seem probable. There isn't anything positive that SRT would gain from it. It might sell a few more cars if they could be modified. I know I would buy one,but I am in the minority. The car needs a better trans and 100 more hp from the factory with a warranty. Sales have spoken. Old buyers want more and new buyers are still buying something else. It appears that we have arrived at OZ and Ralph is just a man behind a curtain. A lot of show but no more go.
     
  12. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Adding a supercharger doesn't automatically increase emissions. You do realize that even the Paxton has a bypass valve, and external aux pumps, right? When driving the car around like normal, it isn't even in boost, and those extra pumps are off. There are other cars out there making 700+ from the factory, and still pass emissions requirements. The camshaft profile has a lot to do with emissions, and ours aren't being changed for a blower kit.

    Also, hundreds of dealerships of all brands already do in-house vehicle modifications. BMW, Porsche, Chevy, Dodge, you name it. They will even install aftermarket parts, just like most performance shops will. This isn't a new concept at all.

    A better trans? I run the 2013 TR6060 trans in my '06 coupe. It is currently at 1100 rwhp. Transmission is OEM stock, and has had no issues. I've even broken a clutch, but the trans survived fine.
     
  13. C-Note

    C-Note Viper Owner

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    I hope there is some truth behind these rumors, it would make a Gen 5 all that more appealing!
     
  14. DMan

    DMan Viper Owner

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    I heard the blower rumor back when the dealers sent their folks to the first training, I went by a local dealer and the 2 guys that went said that they were working on a Mopar/Aftermarket blower setup to be a dealer option, I waved it off at the time. Like 9ball says, it's totally doable and in fact being done by many out there, even Ford does FRPP kits with complete blower swaps and 100+rwhp increases, offers warranty with dealer install, with only engine mods. We know it's doable and can be finacially viabel because others do it. When it comes to a gen5, would I do an aftermarket FI kit? No. I'm a good wrench turner, but if something goes wrong there are no Viper specialty shops here. Would I do an FI kit from Mopar? Yes, at a reasonable price, becasue I have no good service dealership local either, but Virgina isn't too far and there's a resource there I believe.

    But we have so little info about the 2014 car, let alone other models, who knows when we'd actually hear about perf kits.
     
  15. Voice of Reason

    Voice of Reason Viper Owner

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    What EPA requirements would Mopar have to meet when creating a dealer installed package like this? Normal tuners laugh at the EPA but being a manufacturer are they held to a different standard? Or is that the point of it being dealer installed, as sort of a work around?
     
  16. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

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    If they are developing that, I would hope they would develop a similar to be backwards compatible to the 3000 or so Gen IVs.
     
  17. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Gen V has forged internals. Gen IV does not. On paper, the Gen V engine seems to have been designed with boost in mind. Forged with a low 10.2:1 CR.
     
  18. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    Nine Ball,

    The problem would'nt be the supercharger. It would be the computer. Of which there has been no official statement made that they are creating one. Don't you think it would be priority one to get one out, considering the current sales slump ? It would have to allow the O2's and the MAF sensors and a few other things to not trip codes. This would require "off road use only". Which in the past didn't mean much. Today the FEDS are keeping track of alot of aftermarket chips and PCM's. You have to submit a VIN in some cases (deisel engines) and when it comes up for tag renewal or emissons it gets kicked out. That's why most people want it to be from the factory. Especially when it is a 120-150K car.

    Nothing wrong with the durability of the transmission. The problem as shown in your own video, is the quickness and accuracy of the shift that you don't get with the old style manual.
     
  19. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

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    I understand that. But it's not like the internals of the Gen IV cant be upgraded. The Gen III was 9.6:1, Gen IV & V are 10.2:1. Would think if the internals were taken care of, if there will be a SC for the V, it shouldn't be much harder to put it on the IV.

    Wishful thinking I suppose.
     
  20. DMan

    DMan Viper Owner

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    A dyno tuner may not care, will tune the car and load it. But aftermarket kits for FI are held to EPA and CARB and know they have to make them their main product to really sell, they offer "tuner" kits without certs, but the cert'ed kits are the sellers; paxton, vortech, whipple, all those kit builders out there adding 80-200+rwhp with kits are emissions legal.


    I personally used ProCharger, Vortech, and Paxton myself, all emissions certified as standard.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  21. DMan

    DMan Viper Owner

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    Not sure I follow, having added and upgraded numerous cars with aftermarket kits, I'm not sure what the problem is you're pointing to. If Mopar is coming with a kit then they wouldn't want to open the computer, they'd work with a vendor, like Paxton or Vortech, assuming we're talking centrifugal so it can fit under the hood and deliver a curved boost for better traction, exclusively in developing a kit. This is the way other manufacturers do it. Then they sell the packaged solution turn key with a dealer install option, done. Smog legal and certified and warranted, just like other manufacturers. I would not expect SRT to open the computer to the aftermarket unless they weren't going to do a kit, in that case, offer a licensing deal to SRT for access to the code and you can provide aftermarket kits and tuning, but again for other cars these are mostly all smog legal and certified, not off-road use only. Only tuner kits fit that bill and aren't the prime products being hucked out there. I don't think SRT would try to reinvent the wheel here, just do what others have done. A 640hp gen5 with a paxton setup IMO would conservatively be a 750hp kit and be hugely safe and emissions legal. If they did a tuner kit you'd be talking another 100hp at least and then kiss emissions good bye.

    If a 750hp gen5 couldn't sell .. then, let's see what I could bet, I'd, I'd, go buy a corvette as punishment for being wrong. lol (not much of a punishment considering really)

    What lovely speculation we get into though, if only, if only ...
     
  22. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    You make sense. I think it almost has to be a Paxton type setup because of the X support going over the top of engine. The car can be run without it in a straight line but not well on a road course. Maybe someone could design a square support but it would not be as efficient as the X and probably have fitment issues.
     
  23. Voice of Reason

    Voice of Reason Viper Owner

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    IMO a 750 hp package isn't going to be enough for what this will cost. That's only 110 over stock (a 17% increase) and a supercharger should be able to add more safely than that. A 800 hp package (25% increase) would make me take notice. If Mustang GT owners can see a 50% increase with their Ford warranted FI setups I don't think it's asking much for a 25% increase for us.
     
  24. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    My concern is that tripping codes and going into limp mode on a GEN IV can be caused with just an air filter change. There is a race PCM available for the GEN IV but as yet no one has added a supercharger. Why not ? Six years and no company has stepped up with a kit. Is it because the computer is not tunable ? The Gen V doesn't even have a computer yet. The motor may be willing and able but the technology is not.
     
  25. mjorgensen Woodhouse

    mjorgensen Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

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    "Mark,

    It’s going to be some time still, we have to make sure we are ok to sellthis from a legal perspective. "


     
  26. Nine Ball

    Nine Ball Enthusiast

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    Yes, the sole reason the aftermarket hasn't developed a kit for the Gen 4 is because they are not able to tune it. If you want to spend an extra $5-7K on a completely new engine management system, you can have it done now for a Gen 4 or 5. Motec, Pro EFI, AEM, etc... But those will not pass OBD-II inspections. They could be tuned to pass emissions sniff testing, however. Custom tunes do not automatically mean worse emissions. Most of the time they end up cleaner than OEM emissions, as most tuners tend to run the engines leaner on the air/fuel than OEM does.

    I wish SRT would just unlock the code, and allow the aftermarket to spur some sales of these cars. Look at the thriving Camaro/Mustang market, vs the locked-down SRT-8 market. Big differences in sales, as well as aftermarket support. SRT is way behind.
     
  27. mjorgensen Woodhouse

    mjorgensen Woodhouse VCA Member - West VCA Member

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    Tony,

    The biggest issue is that SRT is not in control of the codes, they are not theirs to open or give away, believe me I'm sure they wish they could help with it, but they cannot so don't lay blame on them. I'm sure they are the only group that "gets" how important the aftermarket is to performance cars at Chrysler. Hopefully there will be a portal that will allow at least the same amount of tinkering the Gen4 had someday.
     
  28. mbccenter

    mbccenter Viper Owner

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    I have thought about building a Twin Turbo one but that is as far as it has gone... If someone wanted one it could be done.
     
  29. Ray W

    Ray W Enthusiast

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    Mark and Tony, I think we all agree that SRT has built the best Viper ever. Too bad, that for financial, government or management decisions it is being kept from reaching it's full potential. As sales are falling the new buyers can't help bring the car back to it's glory with such restrictions. As the owners of the codes may find. They may have already priced themselves out of the market by killing the car they have written the codes for.
     
  30. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

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    How hard would it be for SRT to release a new computer and harness (If needed) that would be off road only that would fix all of the issues that the stock and current Mopar PCM offer in regards to boost or tuning. If anyone can do it, Mopar can.

    (just thinking out loud. If the current PCM sucks so bad and they don't have or cant release the codes, start fresh with something easier or more friendly)
     

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