Opinions on New Transmission and Gearing Wanted

[FrgMstr]

As most of us know, the 5th gear in the 2008 tranny is a dog for standing mile events. I talked to a local performance shop that quoted me about $3K to change the 5th with the desired chromoly gear and change the ratio on 6th as well. And they were going to do some other upgrades in the tranny to make it more durable for the HP.

However, he does have a GForce transmission (built by GForce, not just parts put on elsewhere) on the shelf that he built for a TT Viper customer that ended up going another direction. He is asking $5K for fully install. It is a fully built 1000+HP tranny with the following gears.

Ratios are :
2.71
1.79
1.30
1.00
.89
.75

I think with the car putting down 625rwhp and that 5th gear, 190mph at TX Mile should be very doable. Sort of wondering what the new 6th gear (since it is basically my 5th gear now) would be like MPG-wise? I use 6th now a lot on long trips, not that I really like it though....

I am not very savvy when it comes to transmissions and I wondered what your thoughts might be. Thanks for ANY input.

 

[Boxer12]

I changed over to the Gen V gears, and it is well worth the money and effort. I don't know what they were thinking with the 08-09 tranny. It *****. I bought mine, the ACR-X trans, from Viper Race Hqtrs. I think you should easily get 190 on a mile track at your 625 rwhp and easily with 1000+HP, but who is building Gen IV with 1000+HP? I know you cannot program the ECU, so how can you do it? Beware of unscrupulous builders. Just my 2c.

 

[hyph]

5K is a real good price on a GForce Tranny. Some guys have paid upwards of of 8k for a fully built tranny installed, not to mention the time it takes to get it done.

If the builder is a local builder to DFW that I'm thinking of... then you will have no problems.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Yea the Gen V trans can be had for 4400 from VPA, something to consider, change up the rear gears if you like.

 

[SRT09]

Went to 3.55's on mine and what a difference pulls so much harder and makes 6th usable on the street at safe speeds!

 

[ACRucrazy]

I actually enjoy 6th gear for cruisin personally. Nothing like idlin along at 23 mpg in a 600+hp V10!

 

[treesnake]

As most of us know, the 5th gear in the 2008 tranny is a dog for standing mile events. I talked to a local performance shop that quoted me about $3K to change the 5th with the desired chromoly gear and change the ratio on 6th as well. And they were going to do some other upgrades in the tranny to make it more durable for the HP.

However, he does have a GForce transmission (built by GForce, not just parts put on elsewhere) on the shelf that he built for a TT Viper customer that ended up going another direction. He is asking $5K for fully install. It is a fully built 1000+HP tranny with the following gears.

I bought 2 sets of the lower 5th and 6th gear from Dodge for $400 per set. (One of the VCA sponsors has the gear set for $695) Transmission shop charged me $200 to install in transmission.
I believe it was less than $500 to swap trans. in the car......???? $3K...?????

I'll bet you told them it was for a Viper.....

I use a Rockland Transzilla in my track car and a Gforce in the TT. Each with the lowered gear ratios.
Both seem to work well for the purpose they were built.
FWIW... You mentioned running The Mile. I did 189 mph in the half mile at about 5500 RPMs in 5th gear....
Can't wait to wind out sixth....

Good Luck...!

 

[FrgMstr]

...but who is building Gen IV with 1000+HP? I know you cannot program the ECU, so how can you do it? Beware of unscrupulous builders. Just my 2c.

Gen IV with 1000+HP is not an issue to build if you use a Pectel controller. And a lot of other stuff, that is not exactly cheap.

5K is a real good price on a GForce Tranny. Some guys have paid upwards of of 8k for a fully built tranny installed, not to mention the time it takes to get it done.

If the builder is a local builder to DFW that I'm thinking of... then you will have no problems.

Thank you for the input!

Yea the Gen V trans can be had for 4400 from VPA, something to consider, change up the rear gears if you like.

Yeah, looked at that, but for the price was not exactly what I wanted.

Went to 3.55's on mine and what a difference pulls so much harder and makes 6th usable on the street at safe speeds!

Did that on my Gen III car and enjoyed it, but that does not fix the 5th gear issue of being a dog for the standing mile. I have run the numbers on it and did not like the way those looked.

I bought 2 sets of the lower 5th and 6th gear from Dodge for $400 per set. (One of the VCA sponsors has the gear set for $695) Transmission shop charged me $200 to install in transmission.
I believe it was less than $500 to swap trans. in the car......???? $3K...?????

I'll bet you told them it was for a Viper.....

I use a Rockland Transzilla in my track car and a Gforce in the TT. Each with the lowered gear ratios.
Both seem to work well for the purpose they were built.
FWIW... You mentioned running The Mile. I did 189 mph in the half mile at about 5500 RPMs in 5th gear....
Can't wait to wind out sixth....

Good Luck...!

Yes, this was a bit more than an OEM gear swap out, but a rebuild on the current tranny to bring it up to specs I wanted with stronger gearing. But point taken. I have shopped around a bit and realize there is some higher price on perf shops doing the work, but I only want to have it done once. Looking to get to 190mph in the mile and still have a good street car.

 

[Viper X]

Greg,

Didn't know you ran the mile. Maybe we can do that together one day.

In your case, I'd go with the 2010 TR6060 trans. You can likely get one for less than the $3K for the rebuild and still have a back up, "just in case". It has a revised 5th gear that will help you reach your goal and you can keep the OE diff and gears. It also has the same 6th gear that you have now for cruising. It's really a pretty good compromise.

I just put one in my 09 ACR to help out when I run Auto Club Speedway (a NASCAR Oval) on those long straights and it works very well.

By the way, what type of safety equipment do you need for the Texas Mile?

Dan

 

[FrgMstr]

Greg,

Didn't know you ran the mile. Maybe we can do that together one day.

In your case, I'd go with the 2010 TR6060 trans. You can likely get one for less than the $3K for the rebuild and still have a back up, "just in case". It has a revised 5th gear that will help you reach your goal and you can keep the OE diff and gears. It also has the same 6th gear that you have now for cruising. It's really a pretty good compromise.

I just put one in my 09 ACR to help out when I run Auto Club Speedway (a NASCAR Oval) on those long straights and it works very well.

By the way, what type of safety equipment do you need for the Texas Mile?

Dan

My only dig on the 2010, is that if I am going to spend the money to switch out, I want to get rid of that .5 6th gear. And with the 2013, I do not like the 1.58 second gear with the 3.07 rear end...

Here is the way my current choices lay out:

0809: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.741, 0.50
2010: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.796, 0.50
2013: 2.66, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, 0.770, 0.63

GForce: 2.71, 1.79, 1.30, 1.00, 0.890, 0.75

With this GForce tranny, I am basically trading out 5th and 6th gears for a "4.5 gear" and a 5th gear. My math tells me that I will be pulling around 2200 rpm at 80mph rather than the 1600 rpm with the stock 6th gear. I actually wonder just how much that will affect cruising MPG. That and this GForce tranny is a full blown built race tranny with every option the company offers sans a 1500HP+ input shaft. I was thinking that if I bought the GF tranny, could I successfully sell the transmission out of my 2008, and I wonder what street value is on it, or like you say, it would be nice to have a backup, or one that I could put the car back to stock if I sold it.

Texas Mile is a blast. If you do it, I would suggest doing it with a RV and staying onsite. Safety specs are listed here. For under 199mph, it is fairly minimal prep for a Viper. Mounted fire extinguisher, SA2005/2010 or newer helmet, and SFI driving gloves, with cotton long sleeves and pants. It gets a bit more stringent above 200mph - 215mph; roll cage, harness, nomex, ect.

 

[hou99gts]

Go with the G Force, keep your stock trans if $ is not an issue. If $ is an issue, still get the G Force and sell the stock trans, it should be worth decent $. The ratios in the G Force are the best combo for you.

 

[FrgMstr]

Yeah, what the hell, I am going to do it. Gives me a good reason to make the October Texas Mile anyway.

 

[EZ 2B Green]

I had John Donato in Michigan update my 2008 with the new 5th and a lower 6th. He also changed out the bronze lined syncros with the new style carbon fiber ones.
I don't run mile events but I absolutely recommend the gear change. It turns the 6060 into a nice close ratiio 6 speed that's much more usable on the street. I think it was less than 3K in 2010 dollars.
The racing transmission you describe will be ******* your gas mileage (think range per tank) if that is important to you.

 

[TrackAire]

I had John Donato in Michigan update my 2008 with the new 5th and a lower 6th. He also changed out the bronze lined syncros with the new style carbon fiber ones.
I don't run mile events but I absolutely recommend the gear change. It turns the 6060 into a nice close ratiio 6 speed that's much more usable on the street. I think it was less than 3K in 2010 dollars.
The racing transmission you describe will be ******* your gas mileage (think range per tank) if that is important to you.

That is very similar to what I have, but I started with one of the VPA 6060's that were used for prototypes, etc. I wanted to keep the stock trans on the shelf if I ever want to put the car back to stock.

I love the close ratio feel (lower 5th & 6th gear) with the 3.55's. IIRC, I'm turning 2000 rpm at 71 mph with stock PS2's in 6th gear. So given enough room, I could be at 210 mph right at 6000 rpm in 6th gear. I did a half mile airport race earlier this year and the car pulls so good with the 3.55's and the lower 5th gear. So much fun to drive on the street and on the track with lots of compression braking as opposed to the stock setup with the 3.07 gears.

Fuel mileage is not a concern with this vehicle, but loafing along at 2000 rpm with very high vacuum will probably get me at least 18 mpg while cruising. Now that I think about it, my Viper is the most economical vehicle I own at freeway speeds, lol.

Cheers,
George

 

[dester243]

Did you inquire if the gforce transmission is a dog box or a synchronized transmission ? I have driven both(not in a viper) and a dog box on the street doesn't really make driving very fun. It's like you are "crunching" every gear on the shift as the dogs catch..... Downshifting is pretty much trying to perfectly rev match it. Want to go into 1st, you better rev match or be at a stop. Sometimes you have to clutch it and wait for the trans to slow down. Otherwise, stab it into first and click click click CRUNCH. Lots of weird noises and feels from a dog box.

Just a suggestion to look into.

 

[FrgMstr]

Did you inquire if the gforce transmission is a dog box or a synchronized transmission ? I have driven both(not in a viper) and a dog box on the street doesn't really make driving very fun. It's like you are "crunching" every gear on the shift as the dogs catch..... Downshifting is pretty much trying to perfectly rev match it. Want to go into 1st, you better rev match or be at a stop. Sometimes you have to clutch it and wait for the trans to slow down. Otherwise, stab it into first and click click click CRUNCH. Lots of weird noises and feels from a dog box.

Just a suggestion to look into.

Yep, synchroed!

 

[345s-bspinnin]

FrgMst, hitting 190mph on 625whp is doable. My first outing on my heads/cam GenIII, I only had 616whp, and hit 191.5; on stock 5th gear (same as your 0809) Remember that you want to be at max horsepower of last selected gear at the end of the run. I have compiled some gears/mph for you to do your assessment. Also, not sure where you got your 2013 Gen V gearing, but its doesn't match published data.

I know that the thread is titled opinions, but but I will give you facts. Here some data to digest and my recommendation.



Gear choices, speeds, stock 3.07, stock rear tire (27.2") and 6400 redline.

0809: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.741, 0.50 // (63, 94, 131, 171, 230, 341mph) // (rpm=5350 @190 (5th gear), and 1150rpm @ 60mph) // Baseline

2010: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.796, 0.50 // (63, 94, 131, 171, 214, 341mph) // (rpm=5750 @190 (5th gear), and 1150rpm @ 60mph) // Better than baseline, you end up 400rpm higher

2013: 2.66, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, 0.770, 0.63 // (63, 106, 141, 168, 218, 266mph) // (rpm=5600 @190 (5th gear), and 1450rpm @ 60mph) // Better than baseline, you end up 400rpm higher

Actual Gen V Gearing:
2013: 2.26, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, 0.770, 0.63 // (75, 132, 141, 168, 228, 267mph) // (rpm=5350 @190 (5th gear), and 1550rpm @ 60mph) // Horribly long gearing on 3.07s, but 5th is identical to baseline, you will be slower than stock



Same as above but, on 3.55 final gear.

0809: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.741, 0.50 // (54, 80, 112, 145.9, 197.1, 291mph) // (rpm=6250 @190 (5th gear), and 1350rpm @ 60mph) // The perfect gearing

2010: 2.66, 1.82, 1.30, 1.00, 0.796, 0.50 // (54, 80, 112, 145.9, 183.3, 291mph) // (rpm=4100 @190 (6th gear), and 1350rpm @ 60mph) // Nope. Too short, You will force a shift to 6th and game over.

2013: 2.66, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, 0.770, 0.63 // (54, 92, 122, 145, 189, 231mph) // (rpm= 6300 @190 (5th gear), and 1600rpm @ 60mph) // Nope. You will force a shift to 6th and game over.

Actual Gen V Gearing:
2013: 2.26, 1.58, 1.19, 1.00, 0.770, 0.63 // (65, 114, 123, 146, 189, 231mph) // (rpm=5300 @190 (6th gear), and 1450rpm @ 60mph) // Nope. You will force a shift to 6th and game over.



Your best results will be achieved with 0809 gearing with 3.55 final. You get close to redline in 5th, and 6th gear cruising isn't as compromised as going any other route. Good luck hitting that 190. Feels pretty damn good when you get that 190+ slip, even better when you pull a 195.0mph

 

[Nine Ball]

Those quotes are too high. $3K to pull a trans and change gears? Ridiculous. You are looking at maybe $600-700 in parts to revise 5th/6th. Good trans guy can rebuild one in about 3 hours. Pulling a Viper trans is one of the easiest cars in the world to do, takes me an hour to get out by myself on a lift.

Sounds like you are trying to sell yourself on the G-Force. All you really need is the revised 5th gear to meet your goals. One negative of the G-Force is that it is T56 based, which is a downgrade from your current TR6060 transmission. The TR6060 shifts more precise, and has thicker gear sets. You have to upgrade a T56 just to make it equal to a TR6060.

I'd look for a 2010 TR6060 and just swap it in, then sell your other trans to recover most of the costs.

My car is around 1100 rwhp and the factory 2013 TR6060 is holding up just fine.

 

[Nixon's SRT]

Tony,
So would you recommend a Gen V trans or 2010 TR6060? I am pushing over 1000whp and i know the stock t56 is close to the end of its life. I am also running a 3.07 rear gear and 18" SSR's with M/T tires. Most racing will consist of 1/4 mile but I will be participating in 1/2 and 1 mile events.

Those quotes are too high. $3K to pull a trans and change gears? Ridiculous. You are looking at maybe $600-700 in parts to revise 5th/6th. Good trans guy can rebuild one in about 3 hours. Pulling a Viper trans is one of the easiest cars in the world to do, takes me an hour to get out by myself on a lift.

Sounds like you are trying to sell yourself on the G-Force. All you really need is the revised 5th gear to meet your goals. One negative of the G-Force is that it is T56 based, which is a downgrade from your current TR6060 transmission. The TR6060 shifts more precise, and has thicker gear sets. You have to upgrade a T56 just to make it equal to a TR6060.

I'd look for a 2010 TR6060 and just swap it in, then sell your other trans to recover most of the costs.

My car is around 1100 rwhp and the factory 2013 TR6060 is holding up just fine.

 

[Nine Ball]

Nixon,

My car went 209 mph in the mile with the 0.63 gear in the middle of 6th gear. That was on factory tire height (Michelin Sport Cup 345/30-19) tires with the 3.07 rear gear. It was about perfect. Car was at 1000 rwhp at the time.

At your power level, you would benefit from the aggressive 6th gear ratio in the standing mile. Guys shooting for sub-200 only need to worry about 5th gear. My data showed I was shifting into 6th around 202 mph with my 0.80 5th gear.

Felt kinda weird grabbing 6th at WOT, I have to admit.

 

[Viper X]

Agree win Nine Ball, the 2010 trans with OE rear diff will get you to your objective speed with the least grief and cost and not ruin your cruising speed. With all wide open roads and higher speed limits in Texas, you'll be glad you kept the OE 6th gear if you drive the car long distances. Spinning the V-10 up to 2200 plus on long trips will be louder, less efficient and create more wear.

Good luck,

Dan

 

[FrgMstr]

Thanks for the input guys! It is much appreciate and has given me something to think about.

I did some MPG testing this morning using Torque and a bluetooth OBDII head unit and the MPG between 5th and 6th was bigger than I thought it was going to be.

 

[TrackAire]

Thanks for the input guys! It is much appreciate and has given me something to think about.

I did some MPG testing this morning using Torque and a bluetooth OBDII head unit and the MPG between 5th and 6th was bigger than I thought it was going to be.

I do think that what you are using the car for does matter. If the Viper is your daily driver or/and you do a lot of constant freeway miles, then mileage matters, not so much from the cost aspect as not having to fill up every 250 miles and the inconvenience that comes with that.

I've been averaging 2000 miles per year. Based on constant highway driving, if I get 17 mpg at freeway speeds, then I'll use 118 gallons. If you get 23 mpg, you'll use 87 gallons. In one years time that's a 31 gallon difference. And that is only at constant highway speeds. Once you drop below 50 to 55 mph, rear end gearing and or trans ratios aren't going to matter as much as how you drive and what rpms and transmission gear you're in. Rear gears and trans ratios are only going to matter for mpg at constant highway speeds. When I had my 3.55 rear end built, I also kept my 3.07 rear end thinking that I could swap back and forth if I needed to (not that hard to do). The 3.07 pumpkin is still sitting on the shelf collecting dust since the 3.55's are so much fun.

Whatever you end up with, enjoy the new gears.

Cheers,
George

 

[FrgMstr]

I do drive the car a good bit, but it is not my DD. I do end up doing some long distance road trips more than a few times a year and this some of what is my concern. (I think we are one of the few cars that actually DRIVES to Texas Mile, along with 345s-bspinnin.) I am getting ready to leave to do the Dustball Rally in a couple weeks, which will likely be a 3000+ mile trip. I have been averaging about 10K miles per year for the last three years.

So on one hand, I have it in my head that I want to do 190mph at Texas Mile next trip down, but don't want to compromise the car's driveability either.

I did put 3.55s in my Gen III car, and yes I still have those OEM gears in the shed! Going back and reading what 345s and Nine Ball suggested I am thinking I am going to go the rear gears first to 3.55 with the 2008 tranny, then the 2010 or 2013 tranny if the gears do not get me where I want to be. If we blow up the tranny at Texas Mile, we get to start over.

I very much appreciate all the feedback! And I think maybe I have been over-analyzing this....

 

[Nine Ball]

Not gonna lie, sometimes I wish I still had that 0.50 sixth gear in my Gen 3, now that I've gone to 3.33 rear gears. I'm setting up the car for better 1/4-mile performance now, since I'm mostly done with the mile goals of 200+.