Pulled the plug on the build!!

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
So I am just laying around last night and I get a phone call from some guy saying he is sitting in my parking lot. (at my business) Tells me he found out I took my car to BIG3 performance and I was going to get screwed! I jumped in my truck and drove to the shop to meet him. He proceeds to tell me that this shop has had his car for a year and shows me a piston which had valve knock marks on it.

HE tell me His story is they gave him a great deal on his car to be their prototype. He says they only let him drive it for a month in the summer and then they had to take it to shows and apparently to be worked on. Says they put 600miles it and he has barely driven it. His car is still in the shop a year later! Explains to me they have been sued a number of times and also tells me their lead mechanic quit and started his own shop. Now he and the mechanic are trying to warn everybody who has a car their. The mechanic told him i was the owner of INfinity Exteriors so he looked me up and drove to my shop.

At this point in time I am freaking out!!! I call the mechanic and he starts telling me all kinds of **** how he rips people off......but the conversation eventually turns to me taking my car to him and he will do it under the table for a better price. I question him about the prototype mustang (he is the one who built it) and why he did check valve clearance - he tells me the owner rushed him through it and wouldn't allow it. :bs2: Says the owner is violent and that I would never get my money back and I would have to call the cops to get my car out.

So I am livid and I drive to Big3 and confront him. I tell him he is a piece of **** and threaten to kick his ass if he doesn't give me my car and money back NOW! He is scared ****less so his dad (other owner) comes running out and tries to calm me down. Dad says he will return my car and money if I want....so I start to calm down. He tells me that -Forrest-(the mechanic) is pissed because they fired him and now he trying to give them a bad name. They tell me Forrest was sabotoging car on the way out because he knew he was leaving and starting his own shop. I start questioning them about the mustang and they tell me IT'S NOT EVEN THIS OTHER GUYS CAR. They showed me the agreement they had signed AND NOTARIZED together starting that Big3 had the car for the first year anytime they wanted and had a 3000mile alotment. The agreement ends next month.

So now I dont' know what to think. I talked them for a few hours and in the end I told them I don't want my engine opened. I am going to have them bolt on the paxton and exhaust and do the tune. Kind of hard to mess that up.

They have spent a lot of time working with me and ordering parts so I feel I owe them alittle something. They invested almost 9k in the software for the v-10 and had the software company flying in for the first tune. The magazine feature was set and alot of the parts were comped based on that feature.

I just don't know who or what to believe. I checked online and they have never been sued:dunno:
 

KenricGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2001
Posts
1,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Alb. NM
Get your car the heck out of there. You can screw up a Paxton kit! Have woodhouse or DLM or any of the site sponsers do the Paxton kit. He was already giving you **** just imagine.
 

mike & juli

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
11,715
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate NY
Wowwww....sorry to hear all of this, Jsparks. We have to admit we had a local mechanic who was HIGHLY recommended, even by himself (yep!)...that he worked on Vipers as well as Corvettes...well, our Viper sat at his shop for WEEKS, where we'd call or go over there, and NOPE, his FRIENDS came in CONSTANTLY with their Vettes (ONLY Vettes), and he'd stop what he was doing to work on his buddy's cars...we had him install a VECII, and he did it improperly, never got it to work, we took Chuck Tator's advice and took the car out of this guy's shop and to a tuner recommended by Chuck...never to return to this so-called genius-mechanic....so I guess I'd be wary....maybe if you can WATCH them do the work you want done, then have the other work done at a more reputable place...this place sounds like it has tooooooo much baggage!!!! Just my .02 and experience. ~juli
 
OP
OP
J

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
I won't have them do the build but if it's just a pissed ex-employee it ***** for them. I have had a few of my own that said bad stuff about my company that was just bogus. I bought the paxton and exhaust on my own and they told me as long I has still do a photo shoot they will install both with a tune for $2,500.00
 

mike & juli

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
11,715
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate NY
I won't have them do the build but if it's just a pissed ex-employee it ***** for them. I have had a few of my own that said bad stuff about my company that was just bogus. I bought the paxton and exhaust on my own and they told me as long I has still do a photo shoot they will install both with a tune for $2,500.00

Sounds like a bummer...like how do you REALLY know what's going on? If it's a disgruntled ex-employee, sure, that can ruin someone's business...unless the guy had good reason to be that way...but sounds like the owner really tried to show you what was going on in that situation...it's totally up to you...seems you've done your homework with this place, checked out Better Business Bureau to see if any complaints? I know you said they hadn't been sued...do you know of any other customers of this place you can talk to?
Or even ASK if they have customers who had Paxtons/exhaust/tunes done there? Then, maybe you can ask for the customers' name and number to call them up? Good luck to ya, this is a tough call. You certainly don't want your Viper held up any longer than it needs to be, and you want the work done RIGHT the first time...so fingers crossed for you here~~! Let us know...juli
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
Read my prior posts again and do as instructed the first time. The color of pity is red - as in red ink and lost time and money. Regardless of who is telling the truth, the environment is not conducive to a successful outcome. Ship your car to Woodhouse, a five star Dodge dealer, and let them put in the Paxton kit, etc.( You are in Wisconsin. They are in Nebraska. They will get the car done in less than a week and it will be back to you before you miss it, except of course if a blizzard gets in the way.) Leaving the car where it is, with all due respect, is a fool's game. Good luck.
 

plumcrazy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Posts
16,243
Reaction score
7
Location
ALL OVER
run for the hills. its not worth it to hope and see if they are telling the truth. not with my car at least...
 

Got_Vnum

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Posts
327
Reaction score
0
Location
Northridge, CA
With all the reputable, experienced Viper tuners, why would you trust anyone else? It's not worth saving some cash and taking this kind of risk.
 

mike & juli

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
11,715
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate NY
With all the reputable, experienced Viper tuners, why would you trust anyone else? It's not worth saving some cash and taking this kind of risk.

Heyyyyyy, LOVE your avatar!!!! AWESOME!!! ~juli
(Do we have to really tell this guy to run for the hills again?!! RUNNNN!)
 

Got_Vnum

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Posts
327
Reaction score
0
Location
Northridge, CA
Heyyyyyy, LOVE your avatar!!!! AWESOME!!! ~juli
(Do we have to really tell this guy to run for the hills again?!! RUNNNN!)
Thank you Juli. Its all in good fun. I'm glad you have a sense of humor about it. No offense to you or any other "closet" Vette lovers. ;)
 
Last edited:

mike & juli

Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Posts
11,715
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate NY
Thank you Juli. Its all in good fun. I'm glad you have a sense of humor about it. No offense to you or any other "closet" Vette lovers. ;)

OMIGOSH...yes, one HAS to have humor in life!!! It's VERY difficult to offend me, I just state my points of view, and respect others...no one will always agree...but we agree your avatar is totally BADASP!!! LOVE it....thank you for your compliments...no offense ever taken...ever! :2tu: ~juli
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
0
I think it's really sh_tty when there's so much bad sh_t in the world.

Sounds like your shop answered all of the digruntled employee's claims. Unless it's an 'itty-bitty' shop with nothing to lose, I'd guess they really wouldn't want all the bad press of a bad job exposed in a National magazine. That would be too stupid, proffessional suicide!

They've put so much effort and time into you already, I'd continue with the plan you've already got going.

Although, I wouldn't be trying to get them to nickel and dime MY Viper.

But, I don't think you should have much trouble asking them for references. They must have a lot of satisfied customers they'd be willing to have you talk to.

Ted
 
OP
OP
J

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
I am meeting with him Monday morning so we can talk further. He is going to refund the difference of the full build vs. the paxton/exhaust. I don't think they will have a prob. with the bolt-ons and this way I will get all of my deposit back. I will call a few of his references and see what they have to say. I have read plenty of reviews from his mag. features and all of those customers seem to be happy.
 

RTTTTed

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Posts
6,438
Reaction score
0
I'd really hate the idea that 1 loser/angry person could be capable of ruining a good business. There's always more ******* than complimentors. Most happy people don't say too much.

If you're still worried, what are his other employees like? Angry and unhappy would mean tbat maybe he doesn't keep his employees happy? If the rest are happy maybe the one that chased you down does too many drugs and you should be happy he got fired instead of working on your car?

Ted
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
3
Location
Miami
"I have read plenty of reviews from his mag. features and all of those customers seem to be happy."

Well of course they were favorable. It is "his mag."

I do not mean to hurt your feelings but you should just get your money back and move on. You seem to be mssing the fact that regardless of who is telling the truth, the employee at issue worked for the other gentleman and was poorly supervised at best. In addition, at least one car got out the door without being properly checked and tested. You also might want to consider the probabilities regarding whether or not this shop will survive in the future. I have noticed over the years that it appears that some tuner groupies end up with broken dreams and a lighter wallet when the tuner goes out of business; their car is not finished; and parts are missing. I hope everything works out for you but your loyalty should be to your family's budget and who will do the best and economically and mechanically safest job.
 
OP
OP
J

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
Here is the way I look at right now. He can charge me a 20% restock fee on my 8k in engine parts sitting in his shop...which is $1,600. Or I can let him put the paxton and full exhaust on for $2,500 and he won't charge me to restock. The paxton is a bolt on and after reading and going through this whole thing and knowing I wouldn't have to tune it I would have installed it myself. I figure I will spend the $900 and let them do it.
 

Tusc

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Posts
1,564
Reaction score
0
Location
The (UN)Constitution State
GOD am I glad I do all my own work. I'd crack if that happened to me.

For peace of mind in this situation, I honestly would pay the restock fee and walk. Too much muddy water there to go by assumptions when your car is at risk. $1,600 spent on peace of mind, versus spending $2,500 and then the possibility of lawsuits, down time and the $15,000 to rebuild a busted V-10.

It sounds like the former mechanic is "most" at fault, and the shop owners are caught in the wind. But that's no reason to risk your car and would have no bearing on my decision to bring the car and all the parts home. If you're having someone else build it, I would call another tuner with a Strong and Established reputation, ask them which of the parts already ordered for the engine they would use/not use, schedule them to build the car, then go to these other fellas and pay them for all the parts they stocked and have the car and parts brought home and shipped on to the other tuner. Your car still gets built, but there are no shenanigans.

Have you ever gotten behind the wheel of a car and wondered if it's going to fly apart? :dunno:

Do you want to get into your Viper and have that nagging thought in your mind? :dunno:

Do you want the Viper to turn into a source of negativity and anger, instead of the kick-ass ride it already is and are trying to improve upon? :dunno:

Edit: for the engine build, if it's all parts you're going to use ANYWAY, I'd pick them up and send it all along to the next shop. Especially if there is some agreement on that. Otherwise, if you can afford the $1,600 restocking fee it may be better to let the next shop, which we're hoping is a big rep one, select parts which they know are a proven combination. Every tuner/mechanic has their own experience and custom touches and I generally defer to those with more experience than myself. Particularly when they have a lot of experience in a niche setup like a blower/engine Viper combo. You're talking 800 to "God-like" for a power range and it isn't like slapping an ATI on your old Trans Am and making 520hp, you know? Big power and big expense ride on the decision.

I know you're trying to find a middle ground where you're a nice guy and everyone is happy. I've done that before, and been burned for it. In the end, you are not responsible for their business or their activities. You are responsible for yourself in this situation. If you read about a guy who sent his car to a shop for a major build, but the mechanic who would have done all the work left or was fired, is bashing the business, stories are coming up and the owners are still guaranteeing the work without the main mechanic.... what would you think or suggest they do? My first thought would be of the guys who got ***** at H. And while this story doesn't sound quite as bad as H., why would anyone stick it out and take the chance?
 
Last edited:

KenricGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2001
Posts
1,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Alb. NM
Dude get your Viper out of there! What part of that do you not understand. Dont ask us if you are not going to listen. Just leave it there and get screwed and when you have to pay 15gs don't get on hear and complain.
 
OP
OP
J

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
Dude get your Viper out of there! What part of that do you not understand. Dont ask us if you are not going to listen. Just leave it there and get screwed and when you have to pay 15gs don't get on hear and complain.


I post here for suggestions....but I'm not a ****in drone! I don't just listen and obey. I'll take into considerations everyone's opinion and then make my decision. I have spent 20+ hours with this guy designing the build and to just blow him off with no consideration on a call from an ex-employee is just wrong. I am going to talk to few of his other mechanics and call some of his references and see how that turns out. It's been posted on here many times that any mechanically inclined person can install a bolt on paxton and exhaust. If I feel they are competent I think they could handle it.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Jsparks,

I would be more than happy to come and get your Viper in the next week or so when I deliver another customers S/C Viper back to Wisconsin that is in the shop now. I'm sure I can come close to matching the price for the install and save the tax you will have to pay locally. It will offset the cost of the delivery back to you which is very reasonable for enclosed 1 car transportation.

Mark Jorgensen
Woodhouse Viper
800-889-1893
402-677-2935 cell
 

KenricGTS

Enthusiast
Joined
May 7, 2001
Posts
1,108
Reaction score
0
Location
Alb. NM
I am not saying to obey and that you are an *******. You are asking for suggestions and then not even listening. I don't know you from Adam but I don't want you to have to go through any more trouble than you have to. You are a fellow Viper owner we try and help out each other. That is all.
 
OP
OP
J

Jsparks

Viper Owner
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Posts
171
Reaction score
0
Location
Wisconsin
Jsparks,

I would be more than happy to come and get your Viper in the next week or so when I deliver another customers S/C Viper back to Wisconsin that is in the shop now. I'm sure I can come close to matching the price for the install and save the tax you will have to pay locally. It will offset the cost of the delivery back to you which is very reasonable for enclosed 1 car transportation.

Mark Jorgensen
Woodhouse Viper
800-889-1893
402-677-2935 cell

Very, very tempting! I will let you know after I talk to some of his references.
 

carguy07

Viper Owner
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
2,310
Reaction score
0
Location
Cuyahoga Falls, OH, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjorgensen
Jsparks,

I would be more than happy to come and get your Viper in the next week or so when I deliver another customers S/C Viper back to Wisconsin that is in the shop now. I'm sure I can come close to matching the price for the install and save the tax you will have to pay locally. It will offset the cost of the delivery back to you which is very reasonable for enclosed 1 car transportation.

Mark Jorgensen
Woodhouse Viper
800-889-1893
402-677-2935 cell

Very, very tempting! I will let you know after I talk to some of his references



I would not even think about it at this point. Perfect reputation vs sketchy reputation. Money is similar. Ship it.:2tu:
 

Paul Hawker

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Posts
4,660
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, Calif, USA
Anybody want to look at this from the shops point of view. They went into this in good faith, and ordered a bunch of parts, scheduled shop time, and did the research necessary to order the proper parts. Then everybody becomes and expert.

Maybe it is time to set down with the owner and see his point of view and work out something.

A disgruntled employee can do a lot of damage. Bet the owner is upset as heck, and would be more than open to working out a solution.

Maybe worth a few minutes and a cup of coffee.

Woodhouse's offer is very timely. They have done tons of Paxton. There is a learning curve to installing and tuning these things. As an example, you need to change out the horn mounting bracket to a earlier model, or else the horn becomes very weak.

Lots of little things like these makes going to an experienced builder a worthwhile investment.

PS. Loved Paxton on my O3. Simply unbelievable how so much HP can be reliable and easy to drive. Might want to talk to them about exhaust mods that work well with Paxtons too.
 

Tusc

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Posts
1,564
Reaction score
0
Location
The (UN)Constitution State
Shop's point of view. They ordered the parts in good faith. Those parts can be returned, also in good faith since Sparks is open to covering the potential $1,600 restocking fee. The only other concern that relates to this forum is that they are out $2500 for a blower install. Since few shops can make a living solely on Viper business, I'm sure they can quickly reclaim that income on Mustangs and other hot rods. I'm serious, as long as they're worth their salt.

With no engine work being planned to be done by this shop without their mechanic, the only remaining "work" is a blower install. The basics of which can be accomplished by any competent gearhead, but as noted it can be done best by a shop with direct experience that knows the little catches and tricks with the specific car.

I see no real reason to stay with this shop other than to look like a good guy in their eyes. They cannot offer the full services agreed upon originally. And if JSparks still intends to build his bottom end, the blower will need to be pulled and reinstalled/tuned all over again at that time. So one MORE valid point for taking his business elsewhere is to get the whole shebang done at once by one tuner and make a package job of it rather than have the next guy try to figure out what the current guy did or tried to do.

I feel bad for the owners of the shop. They had a bad employee and now have a bad situation. It at least SOUNDS like they're making the right attempts with JSparks, but even they must know that the best they can offer is a lame duck version of the original blueprint they had discussed over "20 hours" with him.

Does it really take 20 hours to plan a build? I think most of my parts would be delivered by UPS by then.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Posts
4,969
Reaction score
0
Location
Omaha NE.
Sorry if I came off sounding like I want to steal anyones business. I would not do that, I was just sending out an alternative if he decided to back away from the builder. I would not like it if I did the leg work and then lost the job either. There is a lot of time put into anything Viper related when it comes to engine builds and I know that you can invest a ton of time let alone parts acquisition for a project like this. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
 

Latest posts

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
153,258
Posts
1,682,443
Members
17,759
Latest member
General Jackson
Top