Removal of AC expansion valve. Done it?

97GTS

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Does the entire evaporator core have to be removed via under the dash to get to this or can you get to it from under the hood?
Looks like there is a removable part of the housing on the right side next to where the 2 lines go into the housing.

Also, anyone have any experience with having it replaced along with the drier and what were your experiences, ie colder ac?

I just changed a leaking return hose (from the compressor to the condensor). Vacuumed it down and recharged but the AC isn't really that cold. Of course it is hotter than hell outside right now but it should be colder. A mechanic friend thinks the expansion valve isn't working well because the system doesn't equalize very fast after the car is shut down. I'm thinking the drier should be changed at the same time.

Ideas? Thoughts? Rude comments?




Ron
 
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97GTS

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WOW, have I found something that nobody has done before? Can't believe that.


Dave, I'm sure you have done this before.



Ron
 

eucharistos

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hey ron, hope someone post a reply to your r/r question

is your system holding a charge, or did you detect a slow leak (sniffer test) :dunno:

also were you moving while the a/c wasn't cooling enough :eater:
 

jk

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Not sure on the expansion valve, but I have always heard you should change the drier if the system is opened and I have always done this on my other cars.
 
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97GTS

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The system is holding a charge now. It does get colder as I move but still not what it used to be. Air is cool not cold.



Ron
 

AZTVR

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Does the entire evaporator core have to be removed via under the dash to get to this or can you get to it from under the hood?

I can't speak for your '97; but, the expansion valve and core pictured in the parts manual are the same on the '97 as my '02.

I wanted to do a thorough flush, including the evaporator, due to a catastrophic compressor failure. So, I had to remove the expansion valve from the flushing path. I didn't see any way to get at the expansion valve (on an '02) without removing the heater core/evaporator assembly from under the dash. I found that doing that wasn't as difficult as I had feared.
 

PatentLaw

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Fill level is important after replacing the valve. The valve, as you know, is really deep down in there and you have to dismantle lots to get to it.

Some people have had a problem with the condensor and that is big bucks. Did you see the thread about replacing the rubber o-rings?
 
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97GTS

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Fill level is important after replacing the valve. The valve, as you know, is really deep down in there and you have to dismantle lots to get to it.

Some people have had a problem with the condensor and that is big bucks. Did you see the thread about replacing the rubber o-rings?


Yeah, no leaks since I changed the leaking hose.


Ron
 

Bandit3

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97 GTS, are you sure you have a full charge of freon? This will make it cool then warm as the freon runs through system. The suggestion of the drier replacement is a good one, this acts as a filter for the system removing the moisture. Anytime you have a freon leak (mostly for a long time), replace it. Lab or times for the expansion valve r@r are only 1.5 hours and the condenser is only 2.3 hours. Both sound fairly easy, but not as easy as checking the charge. Add an ultra violet leak detection dye at this time also, it will help in future diagnosis's.
 

Bandit3

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Oh, forgot, on flushing the ac system, we have used for years denatured alcohol from CVS with no problems at all. You must disconnect all hoses and devises which may interfere with flow. This is usually done with a compressor failure. Both compressor hoses will be disconnected, disconnect one or both evaporator hoses and the same for the condenser. Drier must be replaced at this time. Watch your eyes and do this with ventilation. The "sniffer" test is antiquated --- use the dye method, it's foolproof and totally accurate.
 
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EllowViper

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When I did mine (compressor replacement) and found it was not as "cold" as it was before I replaced the pump, the tech figured I put too much PEG oil back into the compressor and probably saturated the evaporator and condensor with too much oil. I guess when "he" does a compressor replacement, he only puts a few oz. back into the pump since there is plenty of residual contained within the system (even after an evac). SO I just live with mine for now. Cool but not ice cold. A complete flush and fill with a new dryier is probably a good idea. Now my '96 Mazda is ICE COLD and I wish the Viper was like that system. WOW.
 

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The ideal way to know what really the problem is to put the guage on it. Read what it is and compare to the ambient temp. It is easy to change parts but sometime it is not necessary. Proper diagnostic is the key. The guage readings will tell you a lot of things... Hope this help.
 

2BADD-4U

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97 GTS,

First off....... to properly diagnose the systems operation ( efficiency ) a manifold gauge set should be connected to BOTH high and LOW sides of your ac system. Or as some call it the discharge and suction sides. This will immediately tell how the compressor is pumping, as your problem can be related to leaky valves of worn internal parts, identical to a cars engine...compression, etc. A normal operating system on a hot day with R-134a refrigerant would be "approx". 200#-275# high side and 30#-40# pressure low side. With a clear sight glass of course. Any bubbles indicate a low charge. To service the system properly for leaks; involves pressurizing the system with ref. or nitrogen, with a trace of r-134a and leak checking the complete system carefully. Gen 2 vipers had a prone leak on the schraeder valve stem fitting on the low side. Under the black plastic seal cap. The suction side or low side is always the larger line on the compressor and system, and the high or discharge lines are smaller and get extremely hot. The gauge fitting is a much smaller thread also, Guys years ago were hooking up small walmart ref. 12 cans to the high side and essentially had a hand grenade in their hands,as the higher discharge pressures would fill the can and tear it to pieces. NOT PRETTY!

The expansion valve rarely fails, but it can... most likely it gets restricted with debris, or moisture, causing freezing, as the oriface is the smallest passage thru out the whole system.

Note: with both gauges installed and while monitoring both pressures, have someone shut the ac off. Carefully watch the reaction of the presures, now ..IF you get an "immediate" equalization of the pressures, most likely the compressor is the culprit, and valves are worn badly, the compresor will not pump efficiently. With LOWER high side and HIGHER low side pressures. NOTE: That is NOT a way to check the expansion valve operation, as mentioned prior. With a working expansion valve, and good compressor efficiency, your low side pressures will always be 40# and much less. Also Lower with an increase in engine rpm.

Remember that refrigerant pressures and temperatures are ALWAYS linear all the time. Meaning Equal rises and drops in sequence to each other. A rise in pressures gives a rise in temps. and vice versa. Also be sure to check the low pressure safety cutoff switch, as they do fail, and can give a compressor short cycling operation. If you notice that the suction pressure goes up and down every few seconds, sometimes longer...you are either low on refrigerant, have a faulty/erratic low pressure switch, or a restriction in the system internally at the expansion valve.

It is difficult to hear the compressor short cycling because of the loud exhaust on all vipers, vs. normal quite cars, say like my Chevy Tahoe.

It is possible to have internal restrictions else where in the system but highly unlikely as the tubing has larger diameters. Bad condensors were mentioned above, but usually referred to LEAKS. Depending on the leak location, repairs can be attempted. And always a removal from the car is needed.


Always change the drier if the system has been prone to a history of leaks and ref. charges. As far as the expansion valve operation, you can tell by the system pressures. Also if your compressor is in-efficient your high side pressures will be lower than normal and your low , suction side will be higher than normal...example 125# and 80#...+ or -.

Usually if you see oil anywhere on the ac system or lines, it is a sure indicator of a ref. leak.

also under the hood rear the passenger side firewall on your gts, check the heater hose butterfly valve mechanism. its should be fully closed, or it may possibly let the hot antifreeze mixture flow thru the heater coil, eventually lowering your cooling effect. work the hot/cool dash control knobs and simulate hot/cool, and you can easily verify the flow or non flow of antifreeze.

also your ac system works its most efficient is during highway cruises...65-75mph not during idling. to check for a full charge have someone rev the motor to approx 1500-2000 rpms and check the site glass.

your ac system when operating properly, will have the suction lines being ice cold and sweating, dripping a lot of water drops. also check your condenser coil for any obstructions, example plastic wal mart bags, leaves, etc road debris. visibly check the condenser coil for blockage with bugs, insects, etc. if blocked, GENTLY rinse with a hose note GENTLY ...condenser coils rarely have problems with refrigerant flow,as the tubing is of good size. Unless your compressor lets loose and internally sends debris into the system, the coil rarely gets internally blocked, same with evaporator coil. External blockage is more prone to be causing a problem, as it will increase your high side pressure dramatically, also increasing your low/suction pressures which will in effect give less cooling effect. if you notice ice anywhere during system operation, there is a restriction or lack of refrigerant.

Try to stay away from the QUICK fixes like adding sealant or leak stoppers, as your systems oil, and lines become coated, especially the evaporator cooling coil, reducing thermal heat transfer....almost like using a can of fix a flat for tires.

also, place a pocket type pencil thermometer in the air vents, to check discharge air temp. will vary with o.a. temps, but generally will be between 48-60 degrees.from the vents, fan on high, increase engine rpms, and make sure that all condenser/radiator fans are all working properly!

the best way to confidently and accurately know the proper ref. charge is to evacuate the system and then weigh in the nameplate ref 134a charge with an accurate ref. weighing scale.

Hope this helps!

Best, Dave


2002 FE GTS
Belangers, Corsa, R/T, K/N

Looking for a '08, '09 or 2010
 
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97GTS

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Thanks Dave for the lengthy response. Think the culprit is the drier. Have never replaced even though the system has been leaking and I had it open to replace a hose in EXTREMELY high humidity. I'm guessing that a lot of H2O got in the system.

The sight glass has a "milky" appearance that isn't bubbles. The low side is 45 the high is 225. This was with the ambient temp of 95 here in Florida.

I'm gonna vacuum down the system, replace the drier and then recharge.

I'll report my success or failure.



Ron
 

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