SCT is it right for you?

[Trailertrash]

I also purchased the SCT Flash programmer from Sean Roe. After flashing the 94 Octane prg into my 2000GTS I was very pleased with its performance and lack of any holes in the power curve. I am stock minus the cats. Car runs perfect! Thanks Sean.
I'm a novice venturing into Autocross and would like to data log my runs on the course question is how do I achieve this? I read about wideband sensors, racer software, LC1 digital input meters, etc. With the wealth of knowledge in these forums I am confident I will get the help I am looking for.
Thanks to everyone you have made my viper experience most enjoyable!!

 

[Ricketts]

I've been wondering the same for awhile, if I should go SCT. Been talking to one of the local SCT tuners lately in regards to it. My car has a few mods, and I think it's time to get a tune.

 

[Jack B]

I've been wondering the same for awhile, if I should go SCT. Been talking to one of the local SCT tuners lately in regards to it. My car has a few mods, and I think it's time to get a tune.

Everything starts with air fuel. Innovate's logging system has a bunch of positives, with the ability to log a/f at any time you have your own road dyno. Here is the best set-up:

DL32 - this is the hardware, it contains an SD card, plus, has an accelerometer built in.
XD Gauge - this allows you to start the the log with the button on the gauge
LC1 wide band system - two is better than one.

you will want to log:

a/f
rpm
throttle position
fuel pressure (requires transducer)
acceleration
MAP (not so important for wot tuning)

IAT and ECT are also semi-important

You can generate a table within Logworks (Innovate software) for a/f versus rpm and throttle position. You then export the table to excel and that generates the changes you need for input with SCT.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

So the SCT is still not able to log?

sounds like a big pain for tuning

that's what I like about the VEC, it logs all the engine parameters and you can add sensors such as WBO2 and graph all of it together with one program

 

[RTTTTed]

Awesome. Glad you're happy with it. I thought there was a race tuner that logged?

Ted

 

[Dom426h]

I was very pleased with its performance and lack of any holes in the power curve. I am stock minus the cats. Car runs perfect! Thanks Sean.

Glad to hear your happy with it. Im still trying to find time to run my baseline dyno to see if there is room for improvement on my GTS.

Holes in the power curve? Did you have "holes" with the stock tune?

Did you do a before and after Dyno of your tune to verify that the 600bucks was well spent?

----------------------------------------
Right, the SCT LiveLink "datalogging" software is still not compatible with chrysler/dodge vehicles.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I also purchased the SCT Flash programmer from Sean Roe. After flashing the 94 Octane prg into my 2000GTS I was very pleased with its performance and lack of any holes in the power curve. I am stock minus the cats. Car runs perfect! Thanks Sean.
I'm a novice venturing into Autocross and would like to data log my runs on the course question is how do I achieve this? I read about wideband sensors, racer software, LC1 digital input meters, etc. With the wealth of knowledge in these forums I am confident I will get the help I am looking for.
Thanks to everyone you have made my viper experience most enjoyable!!

In order to correctly log, you need some type of PCM scanning software, and some type of Wideband. The Innovate LM2 does this all in one package, however it does have some bugs in the software last I checked.

Personally, I still stick to two tried and true separate systems- at least until they have the LM2 sorted out.

 

[Viper Specialty]

So the SCT is still not able to log?

sounds like a big pain for tuning

that's what I like about the VEC, it logs all the engine parameters and you can add sensors such as WBO2 and graph all of it together with one program

The SCT will be able to log once they release the update sometime in the future.

However, having a system all-in-one or a separate tuning and logging system is completely irrelevant when it comes to the "difficulty" of writing the tune. No matter what, they are still going to be different parts of the program since these PCM's cant be written in real time anyway- so it really doesn't make much of a difference.

Also keep in mind when comparing it to a VEC; the VEC only has access to certain inputs normally, and you would have to add others, and it can only log a certain number of them at a time as well. A scanning software has access to all the PID's the PCM runs, and can log as many of them as you want. Lastly, the VEC's logging is two dimentional and logs in graph form, where the scanning software is three dimentional and logs in graph or table format. This is a HUGE leap when it comes to building complex tables. The VEC is tailored to simplicity and tuning WOT tables, not much else... it really cant be compared directly with other systems design for any type of full control.

 

[Jack B]

So the SCT is still not able to log?

sounds like a big pain for tuning

that's what I like about the VEC, it logs all the engine parameters and you can add sensors such as WBO2 and graph all of it together with one program

If you used Innovate's Logworks and the DL32 you will wonder why you ever used the vec for logging at all.

 

[Jack B]

In order to correctly log, you need some type of PCM scanning software, and some type of Wideband. The Innovate LM2 does this all in one package, however it does have some bugs in the software last I checked.

Personally, I still stick to two tried and true separate systems- at least until they have the LM2 sorted out.

The current wideband system is the LC1. The DL32 is the logging firmware. It is nice because of the SD chip, that basically means unlimited logging with a date/time stamp just by pressing a button. As far as reliability issues, the only one they have now is the Logworks 3 cannot print. Logworks 2 has no issues.

What is really nice is the built in G meter in the DL32. That easily allows you to road tune, two widebands, rpm input, throttle posiiton and the G meter can develop a max hp tune without ever using a dyno. Sort of a side bar, but, here is some data from recent runs:

These are all average numbers in second gear and are 2500 to 5000 rpm runs:

NA: .68 G's
150 Shot: .89 G's
325 Shot: 1.15 G's

The a/f curve is combination of the fuel solenoids/jet and SCT to level the curve.

As far as a combination package (tune/log), you are right none currently exists for our cars, but, HP tuners (gm) has the ability to take an internal table log and use it to directly enter data into the the tune, if that is the direction SCT is going, that will be phenomenal. For anyone that has used the VEC, it has served us well, but, take Dan's advice and use his knowledge, the SCT package will make you forget the VEC very quickly. The actual software interface probably is simpler to use than HP Tuners.

 

[Jack B]

In order to correctly log, you need some type of PCM scanning software, and some type of Wideband. The Innovate LM2 does this all in one package, however it does have some bugs in the software last I checked.

Personally, I still stick to two tried and true separate systems- at least until they have the LM2 sorted out.

The current wideband system is the LC1. The DL32 is the logging firmware. It is nice because of the SD chip, that basically means unlimited logging with a date/time stamp just by pressing a button. As far as reliability issues, the only one they have now is the Logworks 3 cannot print. Logworks 2 has no issues.

What is really nice is the built in G meter in the DL32. That easily allows you to road tune, two widebands and the G meter can develop a max hp tune without ever using a dyno. Sort of a side bar, but, here is some data from recent runs:

These are all average numbers in second gear and are 2500 to 5000 rpm runs:

NA: .68 G's
150 Shot: .89 G's
325 Shot: 1.15 G's

As far as a combination package (tune/log), you are right none currently exists for our cars, but, HP tuners (gm) has the ability to take an internal table log and use it to directly enter data into the the tune, if that is the direction SCT is going, that will be phenomenal. For anyone that has used the VEC, it has served us well, but, take Dan's advice and use his knowledge, the SCT package will make you forget the VEC very quickly. The actual software interface probably is simpler to use than HP Tuners.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

If you used Innovate's Logworks and the DL32 you will wonder why you ever used the vec for logging at all.

because I don't want to make my own sensors and splice into all the stock sensors that I want to monitor and run a bunch of wires to another black box when I can see all that on the VEC and not do all that

 

[Viper Specialty]

because I don't want to make my own sensors and splice into all the stock sensors that I want to monitor and run a bunch of wires to another black box when I can see all that on the VEC and not do all that

The PCM Scanning software such as EASE or PCMSCAN can log these parameters through the OBD-2 port, NO WIRING. The DL32 is more of a "permanent install" type device for "tunaholics" that are constantly tweaking, or professional applications where conditions need to be monitored constantly.

And no, you cannot log anything on the VEC that it has not purposely been tapped into, the same as a DL32 would be. The VEC ONLY reads RPM/timing and MAP readings, unless you splice it into other sensor outputs. [all of which PCM scanning software can also do, with ZERO wiring.]

I understand the VEC has become a "comfort zone" item because it has been around for quite some time, but we are working to change that.


On a side note, does anyone know how to take a Screen Shot, and post it? I would be more than willing to take some screen shots of my SCT dealer software [which would also look the same as Pro-Racer] to give you guys a better idea of its capability... Sound like a plan? Just give me some tips to get it done, and anything in particular you may want to see...

 

[Trailertrash]

Dan,
As stated when I started this thread.I already have the SCT. If I wait for SCT to update there end so logging will capable I would be thrilled!! OBDII hook up is so easy. I really dont want to wire anything in permanent as I use the SCT on two differant cars trading programs and info. Whats the cost on the racer and PCMscan software. I would like to view the programs that Sean Roe has provided and tweek a little when conditions apply.

 

[whitebluevipe]

Dan,
As stated when I started this thread.I already have the SCT. If I wait for SCT to update there end so logging will capable I would be thrilled!! OBDII hook up is so easy. I really dont want to wire anything in permanent as I use the SCT on two differant cars trading programs and info. Whats the cost on the racer and PCMscan software. I would like to view the programs that Sean Roe has provided and tweek a little when conditions apply.

so how do you use it on two different cars? i was told the sct had to be sent back to sct each time to be reprogramed for each car.

 

[Trailertrash]

The SCT will allow you to use it on 3 differant VIN #'s if you would try to hook it up to a 4th the unti will shut down requiring you to have it reset at the factory. I use it on both my vipers. My daily driver and my autocross racer.

 

[Dom426h]

Did you do a before and after Dyno of your tune to verify that the 600bucks was well spent?

???????????????????????????


on the multiple vehicle thing:
An SCT can be used on 3 diff vehicles before needing to be send back to SCT for a reset. Not at the same time though because when you hook it up it locks to the VIN and holds ONE stock tune. You have to return that vehicle back to stock befor using on another vehicle.

So basically you can use it on 3 vehicles, one at a time

 

[Trailertrash]

Correct! I guess I didnt explain it well.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Dan,
As stated when I started this thread.I already have the SCT. If I wait for SCT to update there end so logging will capable I would be thrilled!! OBDII hook up is so easy. I really dont want to wire anything in permanent as I use the SCT on two differant cars trading programs and info. Whats the cost on the racer and PCMscan software. I would like to view the programs that Sean Roe has provided and tweek a little when conditions apply.

Hello Again,

Yep, I know that you already have an SCT tool. I was primarily talking to BOTTLEFED when talking about SCT/VEC comparisons.

Please keep in mind, that while you do have an SCT tool, unless you have Pro-Racer software, you cannot make any changes to your tunes or even view them without the help of a dealer. If you want to tune yourself, we can set you up with a Pro-Racer package for your current SCT tool.

Also, Scanning software is designed to allow you to log parameters that the PCM is either seeing or outputting, but it will not in any major sense allow you to "view" a tune, only what the PCM is seeing or doing under certain conditions. To view a tune in its entirety, you would need Pro-Racer or Dealer software where you can see a graph, table, etc representing the data.

The EASE and PCMSCAN both run about 200 bucks.

 

[ViperTony]

And no, you cannot log anything on the VEC that it has not purposely been tapped into, the same as a DL32 would be. The VEC ONLY reads RPM/timing and MAP readings, unless you splice it into other sensor outputs. [all of which PCM scanning software can also do, with ZERO wiring.]

I'm not knocking the Vec3 but I found myself having to tap into the wiring harness every time I wanted to log a paramater, such as TPS, that the Vec3 didn't log. After a while, you can accumulate many taps and that potentially introduces other issues with regards to grounding and interferance issues. Call it coincidence but after completely removing my Vec3 and the associated taps, I no longer hear interferance through my shift beeper. Yes, odd I know, but I could hear interferance (very loud) through my shift beeper which is tapped into the tach signal. Completely gone now.

 

[EllowViper]

I think there would be a great market for a product (PLUG with outputs) that you could install between the PCM plugs and the PCM thereby allowing one to tap into the data stream(s) entering/exiting the PCM on a very nonintrusive basis. The current plugs are a pretty basic design and I'm sure a simple male/female design could be offered relatively cheaply. Heck the VEC uses OEM style male/female plugs to get into the OEM harness. Same same for the PCM inputs I'm thinking. If I had more of an entrepreneurial enterprise available to me, I'd do it.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I think there would be a great market for a product (PLUG with outputs) that you could install between the PCM plugs and the PCM thereby allowing one to tap into the data stream(s) entering/exiting the PCM on a very nonintrusive basis. The current plugs are a pretty basic design and I'm sure a simple male/female design could be offered relatively cheaply. Heck the VEC uses OEM style male/female plugs to get into the OEM harness. Same same for the PCM inputs I'm thinking. If I had more of an entrepreneurial enterprise available to me, I'd do it.

But this begs the question... why would you bother doing something like this, when you can log the exact same data through the OBD-2 port, from the INSIDE of the cabin, with ZERO wiring...?

And yes, something like you describe could certainly be done... just look at the PNP harness for the Gen-3 AEM... same idea really.




And still... no one has taken me up on my screen shot offer....? I am surprised!

 

[EllowViper]

As some have mentioned...tapping directly into the TPS, ignition, MAP, etcetera. I just prefer a single point of entry for gaining access to sensor data for a third party device. The ODB port is great for logging, but you can't run say a DL32 data stream from it or activate a shift light from it.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

eric,
I think your idea is brilliant
even with the SCT there is no logging function so adding a secondary syst. like jack described it still necessary. and adding other accessories would be cake if you didn't have to put splices into the stock wiring. you could tap off for the speedo calibrator (gears), add cruise control, or any number of mods that require tapping into the factory wiring without having lots of those blue taps cutting into your stock PCM wires.

 

[Viper Specialty]

As some have mentioned...tapping directly into the TPS, ignition, MAP, etcetera. I just prefer a single point of entry for gaining access to sensor data for a third party device. The ODB port is great for logging, but you can't run say a DL32 data stream from it or activate a shift light from it.

That it true, if you really would like to run a permanent-install type device like the DL32.

It would be easy enough to make one with the right parts, just need to find out who the manufacturer of those connectors is...

 

[Viper Specialty]

eric,
I think your idea is brilliant
even with the SCT there is no logging function so adding a secondary syst. like jack described it still necessary. and adding other accessories would be cake if you didn't have to put splices into the stock wiring. you could tap off for the speedo calibrator (gears), add cruise control, or any number of mods that require tapping into the factory wiring without having lots of those blue taps cutting into your stock PCM wires.

FYI, not sure if you have them or not... but those damn blue taps end up being nothing but problems in the long run. I highly recommend you solder those wires when you get a chance.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

believe me, I know
I've had cars that had "professionally" installed alarm systems with literally dozens of those blue taps

I usually solder every connection unless I know it will be temporary
I was an electronics specialist in the air force

 

[Trailertrash]

Thanks for all the great input guys. Good Stuff!! I plan on waiting for SCT to update to allow me to log. In the mean time I will be ordering the racer software to view and adjust tunes to my liking until results are satisfactory. After all the seat of the pants feal works pretty well.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Thanks for all the great input guys. Good Stuff!! I plan on waiting for SCT to update to allow me to log. In the mean time I will be ordering the racer software to view and adjust tunes to my liking until results are satisfactory. After all the seat of the pants feal works pretty well.

Honestly, there isnt much point in waiting for the SCT logging software. We dont know when it will be released [could be a LONG time] nor do we even know what its capabilities will be. I highly recomend just biting the bullet on some proven logging software, and *IF* the SCT version comes out and looks good enough, the generic logging software you had bought can EASILY be resold for almost all of what you paid for it. If you are going to have Racer software, you may as well be able to get the full benefit of it from Day-1. Look at it this way: In the long run, it may cost you ~50 bucks to get your tune nailed down a year before it would have the other way around.

 

[Trailertrash]

Good point Dan. I have the SCT 9550 please give me the part number and pricing I need for the racer software and the loging software and device that you would recommend and I will place the order with you. Thanks again for everyones input on this thread.