Should the Viper ever have Traction control and/ or any other Gadgets?

[SilverViper03]

100% with stability management, as long as it is completely deactivated. It gives some security when needed and give 100% of fun on the touch of a button. It's perfect for everyone. Why protest on something that can be perfect for all?

 

[AG98RT10]

Of course it should have defeatable computer stability control.

This the 21st century, isn't it?

 

[DLTARNU]

How about optional and defeatable everything?

Let the purists choose the bare bones model, let the Z06 lovers choose the fully loaded model (including dual cup holders) and let everyone in between choose what they want.

Choice rocks

 

[viperama]

I would like to have ABS in my '97 GTS.

Traction Control is not a thing i really need, stability Control is nice in my girlfriends daily transportation... but not in a Viper.

Mitsubishi has a AYC/ACD which is only available in Domestic/European Market for the 4WD Lancer Evolution.
This systme is different from stuff like ESP (Volkswagen, Mercedes, Audi, BMW etc).

ESP is using the brakes to stabilize the car and close throttle if necessary.
Not what we want in a performance car.

Mitsubishis AYC/ACD transfers Power between Front and Rear, Left Rear and right Rear. It brings full torque only to wheels/axle which has most grip.
But it does not transfer torque between frontwheels, because this would affect steering (like we know and hate it from FWD cars).

I think the Viper should not have to much electronic Gremlins like the new Corvette...

I'm sure that my 1997 GTS will still be driveable in 20, 30 or 40 years because it is not loaded with electronic toys which need tons of controlmodules.
Or do you believe that any kind of ECU will be available even 20 years after the car ran out of production?


Ask a Owner of a ultraexpensive BMW M1.
This car ran out of production in 1989 and it is not possible to get a simple Bosch Injection ECU for it... not from Bosch, not from BMW.

 

[ERDOC]

Mitsubishis AYC/ACD transfers Power between Front and Rear, Left Rear and right Rear. It brings full torque only to wheels/axle which has most grip.
But it does not transfer torque between frontwheels, because this would affect steering (like we know and hate it from FWD cars).


Audi has had this in their quattro system since the mid 80's. Nothing new here...

 

[Viperized]

ledfoot"Viperized...Just because you have a Nineteen year old girlfriend, doesn't mean you can start talkin ****."

Hey I would talk s**t even if she was 20!

 

[Viperfreak2]

The Viper needs stability control. Every so often, I make a mistake. So far no major damage.
Last week I passed a convoy of army trucks and the guys were all giving me thumbs up, so I decided to attack the off-ramp and slide the car a little to put more smiles on thier faces. I came in a little too hot on semi cold tires....
I came off the other end of the ramp swearing I'll never do it again, I'll never do it again....
SO, either the Viper gets ONE MORE gadget (key fobs that can be programmed to unlock one or both doors, electric pedals, a low pressure tire system that MUTES the radio to make sure you hear the chime, electronic window height adjustment, etc) or does without all that kind of stuff. Like the original. I gotta lean towards anything that makes the Viper a safer car.

 

[quick2tr]

(key fobs that can be programmed to unlock one or both doors . . .)

Hit the unlock button twice (quickly) and it will unlock both doors.

 

[redsrt03]

"I want an accelerator pedal that opens the throttle when depressed. I want brake calipers that only apply pressure when the brake pedal is depressed."

Yeah, and I want real glass that lacerates when it breaks, none of that "*****" safety glass.

 

[quick2tr]

"I want an accelerator pedal that opens the throttle when depressed. I want brake calipers that only apply pressure when the brake pedal is depressed."

Yeah, and I want real glass that lacerates when it breaks, none of that "*****" safety glass.

I contributed my opinion to the thread question.

I did not address all safety devices, just the ones related to controlling accelerating forces. Relax dude.

 

[viperama]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
Mitsubishis AYC/ACD transfers Power between Front and Rear, Left Rear and right Rear. It brings full torque only to wheels/axle which has most grip.
But it does not transfer torque between frontwheels, because this would affect steering (like we know and hate it from FWD cars).


Audi has had this in their quattro system since the mid 80's. Nothing new here...


[/QUOTE]


Sorry, but you are wrong.
Audi used torsen Differentials (manual full lockable Diffs in some applications).
Mitsubishi is using LSD Diffs with separate hydraulic actuated clutch packages.
They can lock/unlock wheels also depending on steeringwheel/throttle position and vehicle speed.
You can also choose between 3 different Modes (Tarmac, Gravel, Snow) which change handling characteristics.

 

[jrkermode]

A huge part of my buying decision was the Viper's minimalism.

My Viper is not my primary driver, so I'm OK with it being less safe than a Volvo (Hey, it's safer than a motorcycle!). Nor did I buy the Viper solely to go fast (flame suit on!), so I don't buy the performance at all costs argument. Driving my Viper is like a mini-vacation. And, just as one might go to a resort with no television and no phones, the minimalism contributes a great deal to the pleasure.

In the end I gave in to ABS and AC because that's what was available in my favorite color (graphite). However, the "features" did not add to the car's perceived value during my purchase decision. In fact, had my favorite color come before ABS, I would have happily paid less money to buy an older car.

I think minimalism is more a part of Viper than is extreme performance (it's OK my flame suit is already on). A 4WD car with a clever enough computer will destroy a Viper, but Viper owners don't seem to be stampeding to the store for the latest in automotive techno-wizardry.

In a world where we are increasingly surrounded by technological and biological aids, simple pleasures, like the Lotus Elise and the Dodge Viper are harder and harder to find. Keep it simple stupid.

 

[Viperized]

I understand this position. Especialy if you live in California where the weather is always warm and the Viper is a second car. Quite honeslty the Viper could have a lot less horsepower and would probably be better. Your Elise example. This car does not have tons of power but I believe you will see a lot less accidents with it and I bet it is as much fun to drive as the Viper (I know, why dont I go buy one then?... ans.I like my Viper but it could be improved). It seems that mostly warm weather owners have this opinion of the Viper. It can be your part time car and you can still drive it most of the time or pretty much whenever you like, its a perfect situation. Try driving an SRT10 when its 20-40 degrees out, after its been sitting for a few hours. You have to be very gentle with the throttle or the car does the cha-cha. Of course it is possible to maintain control but it is something that you have to be very conscious of or you will be punished. I dont see anything wrong with a defeatable T/C. On those cold days keeping on the T/C until the tires warm up could make driving the Viper a lot nicer. Especially early in the morning before you have had your coffee.Brrrr...I cant wait for spring.

 

[KenricGTS]

NO

 

[xanadu]

From a forum poster at ferrarichat-
I just drove my new F430 which had arrived at the dealer on the 24th. All I can say is WOW!

Masses of power - both low and high end. Drove it in scandinavian poor weather in 6C (about 42F) with some rain. It could pull wheelspin in 3rd from 80mph with the pedal only half down. <font color="blue">The csf anti-spin/electronic diff is just amazing.</font>

Great sound as well from the entire rev range. It's simply the car the 360 should have been to begin with. The F1 is as good or better than the 575M - the more torque has helped it a lot.

Took a couple of pics of it. I'm taking delivery in January, and I'm really looking forward to it. I was a bit lukewarm before today, but I'm hooked - there's no way back now...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another poster-
My opinion on the F430 has changed. When I first saw pictures of the car I didn't like it one bit and said so in this thread. Now after visiting Italy, especially Maranello and seeing F430's all over the place driving to Fiorano, after hearing <font color="blue">the mean sound they make while accelerating, and the popping through the exhausts during F1 gearshifts I love the car</font>. There are a couple of nagging details but after seeing the car in the flesh it is awesome and very aggressive. Here are a few pics from the streets near the factory.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
News Article-
<font color="red">Ferrari puts Formula 1 teeth into its F430 road car, another sign of a company transformed.

October 13, 2004

A decade ago, visitors to the Ferrari factory announced themselves in a small showroom inside an unassuming complex of low brick buildings — hip-roofed and painted burnt orange, sturdy and traditional, like Ferrari itself.

Today, the Ferrari campus looks more like Starfleet Academy than the house that Enzo built. The new wind tunnel is by architect Renzo Piano. The Luigi Sturchio-designed F1 logistics building looks like a zeppelin that has crash-landed outside the Fiorano test track. The Product Development Center, designed by Massimiliano Fuksas, is like a 3D Mondrian painting, its externally framed colored glass boxes stacked weightlessly, roofed with reflecting pools and connected with glass tunnels. It's part water garden, part gerbil habitrail.

What has happened in the past decade? Luca Cordero di Montezemolo happened. The chairman and chief executive officer, who succeeded founder Enzo Ferrari four years after his death in 1988, brought the company back from near collapse and engineered its transformation into one of the world's most profitable car companies and the dominant force in Formula 1 racing, in whose employ is seven-time world champion Michael Schumacher. Montezemolo, 56, who managed the F1 team in the 1970s, was recently appointed chairman of Fiat Group — parent company of Ferrari — after the death of Umberto Agnelli. He has resisted — so far — entreaties to run for the Italian presidency, which polls show he would win in a walk.

We've got the Donald. Italy has Luca Maximus. Yet pared to its essence, Ferrari's business model hasn't changed much since Enzo ran the company: Win at Formula 1 racing and amortize that investment, when and where possible, in the technical development of the road cars.

For the tifosi — the Ferrari fans — there is a holy purity to this philosophy; to Montezemolo, it's just good business sense. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" works as well in any language. I would love to be cynical about Ferrari. One of the few places where photography is not allowed is the factory assembly line — such images would dull the legend of the cars being hand-built by white-haired Gepettos. Yet the degree to which Ferrari has integrated its street car and racing divisions is extraordinary. For example, Jean Todt, the director of the all-conquering racing team, has recently been named managing director of the Ferrari Maserati Group — a position for which he has no credentials beyond kicking butt in Formula 1. The same aerodynamics team that dials in Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello's F1 cars also develops the road cars. The new machining facility builds parts for both the Gestione Sportiva and the GT car division. In fact, the very architecture of the campus, with its multivectored staircases and connecting tunnels, reflects the osmosis between racing and passenger car operations.

And then there is the brand new F430, the mid-engine, V8-powered berlinetta replacement to the 360 Modena. Like the Modena, which sold about 10,000 units between 1999 and 2004, the F430 will be Ferrari's bread-and-butter coupe, and like the Modena, the F430 is reasonably civilized, not a carbon-fiber crucifix like the Enzo hypercar, of which only 399 copies were made.

But the F430 simply reeks of F1 racing technology, including the first-ever use in a production vehicle of a </font><font color="blue">race-bred electronic differential transaxle — Ferrari calls it "E-Diff." All cars have differentials, which allow the driven wheels to rotate at different speeds, as required when cars go around a corner; the outside wheels travel farther than the inside wheels. Ferrari's E-Diff system comprises an electro-hydraulic actuator that shifts torque between two friction discs, maximizing traction according to the data coming in from the steering angle and accelerator pedal angle sensors, the yaw sensors and individual wheel sensors.

Other race-derived hardware includes optional carbon-ceramic brakes; a "launch control" program for maximum acceleration from a standing start; and the vehicle dynamics manettino, a five-position switch that adjusts the thresholds of the traction, stability and antilock systems, the suspension stiffness, the E-Diff and the gearbox shifting action, all integrated according to the car's constellation of sensors. Just like the one on Schumacher's steering wheel. Dial L for lap time.

On the "Ice" setting, for example, the adaptive suspension is soft, even plush; the F1-style gearbox switches to automatic mode and takes a leisurely 0.8 second to change gears; the antilock, stability and traction control systems all intervene at the slightest indication of wheel slip; and the throttle response is relaxed so that an overeager right foot won't spin the car.

At the other end of the spectrum, the "Race" setting puts the car in "seek and destroy" mode. The gear changes crack off at 0.15 second; the suspension goes rock hard; and the dynamics system — ABS, stability and traction — takes its invisible hands away so that a skilled driver — or even I — can slide the car around a track. In race mode, the E-Diff allows maximum usable power to be transferred to each rear wheel.</font><font color="red">

When the car hooks around the hairpin at the Fiorano test track, you can lay the power on and the car powers out with the most beautiful, progressive oversteer you could imagine. According to Ferrari, the F430 laps Fiorano three seconds faster than the Modena.

Does any of this sound familiar? A similar sort of system, employed for very different purposes, can be found in the new Land Rover LR3. Its five-position switch (rock, sand, mud, etc.) adjusts the concerted behavior of systems from throttle response to shock valving. We are seeing the first generation of digitally animated automobiles.

Like the Modena, the F430 uses an aluminum space-frame design built by Scaglietti. The weight of the car (3,196 pounds in European trim) is up 10% over the Modena. The body design, a shared credit between coach builder Pininfarina and Ferrari head of design Frank Stephenson, sends the Modena to the gym. It's intensely muscular, particularly around the rear flanks, which include engine intake scoops on the fenders reminiscent of the '60s-era 250LM endurance car. The quad taillights are the same parts as on the Enzo, and both cars' quad exhausts subtly echo the taillight array. Also like the Enzo, the F430's rear end is dominated by a vaned aerodynamic diffuser curling up from the car's underbody. The car's ground effects are excellent. At 124 miles per hour, the car generates 50% more road-gripping down force than the Modena.

The F430's front bumper intakes are a visual analog to the "shark nose" design of Ferrari's 1961 world championship car driven by Phil Hill and other cars of the era. This is the one false note in the car's styling: The actual intake duct, covered in black mesh, is quite a bit smaller than the painted-black oval surround. It's plausible, I suppose, that the gaping vent holes create Venturi effects that move air more efficiently through the twin radiators, but these intakes look phony up close.

The F430 has a monster under glass — the all-new 4.3-liter, 32-valve V8. Its flat-crank design punches out 490 hp (25% more than the Modena) and 343 pound-feet of torque (23% more). Despite the increase in displacement, the engine is nearly the same size and weight as the previous motor. One vital statistic: The centerline of the crankshaft is only about 5 inches from the bottom of the engine, thanks to the use of external oil sumps and a smaller twin-disc clutch array just over 8 inches in diameter. This means the engine's center of gravity is lower than the Modena's, which benefits overall handling.

With its variable-valve timing on intake and exhaust sides (using a very **** hydraulic tappet actuation), variable-intake plumbing inside the gorgeous red intake plenums, and beautiful polished intake trumpets jutting from the cylinder heads, the 4.3-liter motor looks, and sounds, the part. The wild noise this thing produces at full honk will make you whimper with tearful, lugubrious joy.

How is the drive? Perfect. Just perfect. Thanks to a slimmer central tunnel, the cabin is roomier than the Modena's, and the stitched-leather interior, while lean and purposeful, is quite comfortable — you can even get a navigation system (take that, purists!). The paddles for the F1 shifter have been revised so that they fall to hand more easily.

Stereo? Don't know. Never turned it on.

On the unwound roads of Emilia-Romagna's hill country, the F430 commands utterly. The front-end grip is amazing. The car will refuse no order given it; turn the wheel and it goes where pointed, ready or not. Lay on the carbon-ceramic brakes and the landscape freezes as if you had yelled, "Simon says 'Stop!' " If you happen to be wearing the optional four-point racing belts, the sensation is distinctly like being hung up by your underwear. Romp the throttle and a year's migration of monarch butterflies alights in your stomach. Ferrari quotes a 0-to-60 mph time of 3.9 seconds, but I have it on good authority -- Car and Driver magazine's intrepid tester Aaron Robinson — that the car is a couple of tenths quicker than that.

Top speed is rated at 195 mph, which I suspect is a similarly conservative estimate. Nail the throttle and upshift three times. The car rolls its eyes back in its head and takes a bite of time and space. Very like a shark. The balance, the grip, the steering — it's all so effortless. I've never felt anything like it. The only thing I could think of: It's like beating up a bar full of rednecks with the world's most perfectly balanced set of nunchaku. Whap! Whap! Down they go. Oh, that feels good!

It's funny to think that if you pointed Enzo Ferrari at this car and told him to adjust the timing, he wouldn't know where to start. Despite the nearly 500 horses amidships, what makes this car go is less hardware than software — a reflection of the hypertech world of Formula 1 racing that Ferrari currently owns. True, compared with the forbidding technological heights of F1, the F430 is only at base camp. And yet the view is awfully good from there.
--
2005 Ferrari F430

- Estimated base price: $190,000
- Powertrain: 4.3-liter, 32-valve, dual-overhead-cam V8, hydraulically actuated variable valve timing, variable intake geometry, flat crank, dry sump lubrication, twin Bosch electronic engine controls, by-wire throttle; six-speed electro-hydraulically actuated rear transaxle, paddle shifted with auto mode (six-speed manual available).
- Horsepower: 490 at 8,500 rpm
- Torque: 343 pound-feet at 5,250 rpm
- Curb weight: 3,196 pounds
- 0-60 mph: 3.9 seconds
- 0-124 mph: 17.3 seconds
- Top speed: 195 mph
- Overall length: 177.6 inches
- Wheelbase: 102.4 inches
- Wheels and tires: 19-inch alloys; 225/35R19 (front), 285/35R19 (rear)
- Brakes: 12-inch cast-iron cross-drilled and ventilated discs, four-*** calipers
- Final thoughts: Montezemolo's revenge</font>


Seems like everyone here is all about Viper and Corvette, and never gives thought to outside technology or auto production otherwise (outside of allenlambo who I would like to know what his take on this is). But from what the ultimate high end auto drivers/testers are saying, the technology being developed and implemented today only creates higher performance, whether you like that idea or not. I think if any auto maker wants to create a high end sports car, whether C6 Z06, Viper or on up the ladder, they will need to continue with the advancements of technology. The newer Cobras are throwbacks from the old original cobra, and not meant to be of todays ultimate performance caliber. GM has taken the Vette now, with the new C6 Z06, and incorporated a few of the better advancements from the super high end manufacturers and/or from their own racing R &amp; D. Regardless, they are going in the right direction. As F1 style SMG shifting becomes more known in the U.S., more sports car enthusiasts will ask for it, and perhaps GM will again beat DC to the glory. Nice thing about the higher end manufacturers, you get the choice of manual or F1, but keep in mind almost all sales are for the F1 E-Gear. Those few purists who cannot part with complete manual shifting (E-Gear is not a fully automatic tranny), they can still get that option, and that manual or E-Gear option along with the other advanced options would be perfect along with defeatable settings. Everyone is then happy. You either have technology dating back from the turn of the LAST century, or technology from the last decade of F1 racing.

God Bless.

II Chronicles 7:12 &amp;14

And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him . . . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive them their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Viper X]

My 2 cents,

1 - Yes to tracton control, as long as you can turn it off.
2 - Yes to cruise control. I'd like to drvie the car to Vegas, Viper events, etc.
3 - Definintely needs a more adjustable drivers seat, including height, upper and lower seat bolsters, recline, etc.
4 - Rear roll bars in convertibles should be standard.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Xanadu says:

Seems like everyone here is all about Viper and Corvette?

Duh?

The topic of this thread is about Vipers.

I did find this amusing though:
The F430 has a 'monster' under glass — the all-new 4.3-liter, 32-valve V8. Its flat-crank design punches out 490 hp (25% more than the Modena) and 343 pound-feet of torque (23% more).

Hmmm, 4.3 liter 343 torque, sounds like a Lexus LS430 engine.

 

[BadVenm]

If I were to buy a new Viper and move up from my Gen II, I would hope the new one would feel as raw and untamed as the three I have previously owned.

If that would be the case, then it wouldn't matter if it had traction control or not, as long as you could turn it off. A few creature features and new technology updates are okay, just don't go over board.

DC, please do not turn the Viper into a luxo sports car that you can't feel every bump in the road, that you can't hear the note of the exhaust system, that you can't feel the vibrations in the steering wheel when you mash the go pedal, that every 97&amp;1/2 year old granny can drive as a daily driver, the world already has that, it's called a Corvette.

The Viper should not be a car that anyone with a drivers license can hop in and master in a few seconds of being behind the wheel. That car already exists, it is called a Honda Civic.

Save the raw untamed, I'm the American bad ass, I dare you to mess with me, I'm not for the masses, hard to drive monster that made you famous!

 

[dirk989]

If anyone thinks that putting ABS or traction control on the Viper makes it into a Honda Civic then you either haven't put your butt into a Honda Civic or haven't driven a Viper lately.

My 04 SRT-10 is very much more civilized than the 1st Viper to roll off the line. Hate to disagree with such well thought out opinions, but it is still a Viper. Despite the naysayers, the car has never been confused with an s2000, a Miata, a Civic or a Vette.

As for 'other gadgets', they won't make the Viper into something else either. Horsepower and torque have risen so dramatically that without 'other gadgets' the car can be dangerous. If you don't like gadgets buy a super 7 clone or an Elise, 2 nice very bare and primitive cars.

The Viper has evolved. Real windows, a/c, and yes even a cup holder. The car will continue to evolve. There were a lot of people who only liked the early Vipers because of the primitive nature and others who liked them in spite of it. No matter what changes are made, some people will dislike them and others will embrace them.

We will see more and more refinement and gadgetry on the Vipers. Like it or not. We will also see fewer of them smashed up against a tree or barricade. The horsepower wars make liability a major concern. If you want more horses then you'd better expect more gadgets to stave off some of the litigation.

Dirk

 

[xanadu]

Xanadu says:

Seems like everyone here is all about Viper and Corvette?

Duh?

The topic of this thread is about Vipers.

I did find this amusing though:
The F430 has a 'monster' under glass — the all-new 4.3-liter, 32-valve V8. Its flat-crank design punches out 490 hp (25% more than the Modena) and 343 pound-feet of torque (23% more).

Hmmm, 4.3 liter 343 torque, sounds like a Lexus LS430 engine.

Freak,

My point was obviously not understood by you. Of course this thread, and site as a whole is about Vipers, but all through the forum there is talk, worry, comparisons with the Vette, and no other car. Are Viper owners "only" concerned with being the top on the HP heap in the U.S.? Shouldn't manufacturers strive to be the best across the board, in all areas of construction, technology and quality, and not just to NASCAR loving Americans who only know of the big 3? I'm not saying NASCAR cannot be fun to watch, I'm saying NASCAR is the pits (no pun intended) for advancement of technology WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER FORMS OF RACING except drag racing I suppose. Of course I understand that Ferrari and Lamborghini and Aston Martin, etc. are charging twice and three times as much for their cars, but some part of that is name sake, some is for continued R &amp; D, some for better quality parts like leathers for instance, some for racing costs, etc. Some of the technology used in their cars has been around so long now that DC could be tapping into it with hardly any R &amp; D costs whatsoever. Do you see GM with Vette striving to be just as good as a Viper, or beyond Viper reaching for some technology of the Euro supercar builders? If you don't know, it's for the latter. The Z06 is coming out with the use of Titanium, Magnesium, Aluminum, Carbon Fiber . . . this isn't an attempt to be as good as a Viper, Bud. This is well past the Viper. I suspect that with the next generation of Vette you will be seeing SMG trannies offered. NASCAR America just hasn't caught on to it's advantages, uniqueness yet, but it's getting there, and GM probably will step to the plate first. Sales may be slow for SMG's at first, but as people loose the fear of something new, and understand the technology of it, just like with Ferrari and Lambo, E-Gear sales will be 95% compared to 5% manual stick.

Loose the HP obsession guys. 500, 600, 1,000 HP in a WW II tank isn't going to help things at all. I love the SRT-10, and may have one this year, if marriage and wedding doesn't occur. Truthfully, I'd would rather marry the woman I'm courting than have anything.

The thing that you don't understand about performance is that with the right technology, a good manufacturer, using half the HP and torque can blow the doors off of another vehicle. I would bet that if a top rated road course driver (Hurley Heywood) took you around a track in an "old" 360 Modena, let alone a new F430, or even 575M, your heart rate would be 50% greater than in a Viper. Ferrari doesn't need 500, 600, 1,000 HP or ultra super torque to achieve crushing results. GM is learning this too. DC/SRT and it's core following still does not understand this. I guess it's all kind of like a penis envy thing; mine is bigger than yours. All the HP in the world seems like it's great, but when the smaller guy is always winning the races, who is standing on the podium with the trophy?

PS, In my humblest of opinions, if DC does not want to kill off the Viper, they should really be less concerned with being the Kings of the HP world, and concentrating more on making the V lighter, smoother, better handling and faster via technology. I'm not in the auto manufacturing industry, but the way I see it, the marketing must be done to the masses, not only to current Viper owners/purists. If they don't attempt to draw in new, never before Viper owners, the model will die. But to draw in new owners, they will have little choice but to work on the Viper as a whole package, not just being "Kings of HP/Torque".

God Bless.

II Chronicles 7:12 &amp;14

And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him . . . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive them their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Andy 98 RT/10]

I vote for ABS, traction control and even stability control as long as they can be completely eliminated when desired.

I agree. As long as they can be turned off, I really don't see the problem. I miss the active handling from my Z06.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Xanadu, I understood you completely. Your opinions are your own, and not shared by me. I like NASCAR because it's low tech and FUN to watch. I do NOT like F1 because it is too high tech and frankly incredibly boring to watch. If this was 'Sports car club of America' you could make your point about how great the competitions technology is. This being Viper club....Maybe your point was that we as Viper owners should come into our own club site and put our cars down because some people think self-driving cars are the only way to go. Wrong. There will come a day when cars drive themselves. Go develop you driving skills in the Matrix! So you think that's air you're breathing? Hmmmm.
Some of us do not want too much techno crap on our sports cars. To me, all the mechanical stuff in the world does not make me smile. It's my skill with the machine at my control. I don't care if the Ferrari has more techno stuff. It's a very nice car, and at the same price as the Viper I would buy it instead. It's not the same price. The Corvette offers much more technology and space age parts for a lower price. If after driving both back to back, I had more fun in the Viper, that's what I would buy and vise versa.

The main point is that all that stuff is OK as long as it's either optional or you can turn it off. Just don't load the car with unnecessary toys (seat heaters, head-up displays, reading lights, radar cruise control, trip computers, self closing doors, electro-chromatic outside mirrors with heat and power fold, etc) I'm all for aluminum frames and carbon fiber body panels.

 

[xanadu]

The main point is that all that stuff is OK as long as it's either optional or you can turn it off. Just don't load the car with unnecessary toys (seat heaters, head-up displays, reading lights, radar cruise control, trip computers, self closing doors, electro-chromatic outside mirrors with heat and power fold, etc)

Amen Bro. I totally agree. Totally.

My point was use better grade parts to allow the Viper to be a better performer, as opposed to more HP, more HP. What we all think about added gadgets will always be subjective and personal. Throw 'em on, but allow them to be defeatable, removable or best of all, OPTIONAL. That's what makes makers with SMG trannys cool. Whether a $35,000 BMW 330 or a $330,000 Lamborghini Murcielago vert, the option is there for the consumer's happiness. For old school drivers, they can have the manual stick, for tech driven guys, they can have the paddle shifters. Everyone is happier. Just don't think, like everyone on here seems to think, that more HP is the answer. The fat guy with the biggest p-p still won't win the girl over the buff guy with the average p-p. As a Christian, I shouldn't have said that, but it's a good analogy. SRT needs to go on a diet, somehow staying on a cost budget and similar sales price target. GM some how has found a way to have these titanium parts, aluminum, magnesium, and carbon fiber while still keeping things at a cost control for the consumers. That's way sweet. If added performance enhancing gadgets can be thrown in, without hardly any weight added on, AND these performance enhancing gadgets are defeatable, even way more cool/sweet! Old school Viper guys are happy, new, never owned Viper consumers are happy and everyone in between is happy . . . oh yeah, sales go up, and a model is saved from ~possible~ extinction.

Remember this, IBM saw the computer as a hard drive, which is what it is. Mr. Gates and his pals saw the computer as a tool which needed parts to run it at its best capacity/capability. IBM almost lost everything, Bill, he owns everything.

Don't kill the Viper for the sake of keeping it old school. This new E-Diff differential from Ferrari, just for an example, doesn't make the car drive more than the driver, it only allows the performance of the engine to be used more efficiently and to its greatest capabilities.

God Bless.

II Chronicles 7:12 &amp;14

And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him . . . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive them their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

The main point is that all that stuff is OK as long as it's either optional or you can turn it off. Just don't load the car with unnecessary toys (seat heaters, head-up displays, reading lights, radar cruise control, trip computers, self closing doors, electro-chromatic outside mirrors with heat and power fold, etc)

Amen Bro. I totally agree. Totally.

My point was use better grade parts to allow the Viper to be a better performer, as opposed to more HP, more HP. What we all think about added gadgets will always be subjective and personal. Throw 'em on, but allow them to be defeatable, removable or best of all, OPTIONAL. That's what makes makers with SMG trannys cool. Whether a $35,000 BMW 330 or a $330,000 Lamborghini Murcielago vert, the option is there for the consumer's happiness. For old school drivers, they can have the manual stick, for tech driven guys, they can have the paddle shifters. Everyone is happier. Just don't think, like everyone on here seems to think, that more HP is the answer. The fat guy with the biggest p-p still won't win the girl over the buff guy with the average p-p. As a Christian, I shouldn't have said that, but it's a good analogy. SRT needs to go on a diet, somehow staying on a cost budget and similar sales price target. GM some how has found a way to have these titanium parts, aluminum, magnesium, and carbon fiber while still keeping things at a cost control for the consumers. That's way sweet. If added performance enhancing gadgets can be thrown in, without hardly any weight added on, AND these performance enhancing gadgets are defeatable, even way more cool/sweet! Old school Viper guys are happy, new, never owned Viper consumers are happy and everyone in between is happy . . . oh yeah, sales go up, and a model is saved from ~possible~ extinction.

Remember this, IBM saw the computer as a hard drive, which is what it is. Mr. Gates and his pals saw the computer as a tool which needed parts to run it at its best capacity/capability. IBM almost lost everything, Bill, he owns everything.

Don't kill the Viper for the sake of keeping it old school. This new E-Diff differential from Ferrari, just for an example, doesn't make the car drive more than the driver, it only allows the performance of the engine to be used more efficiently and to its greatest capabilities.

God Bless.

II Chronicles 7:12 &amp;14

And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him . . . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive them their sin, and will heal their land.

What the hell is this crap and what does it have to do with Vipers? Please take your preaching elsewhere.

 

[ledfoot]

I'm good with no traction control (kinda cool really)but on my recent drive to the Bay Area from Texas,with changing climates,I would have liked an outside temp gauge in the rearview mirror to know how cold the streets were........

Xanadu, I need a bongload to read your last post

 

[fluffy]

What the hell is this crap and what does it have to do with Vipers? Please take your preaching elsewhere.

Who the hell are you and what do you have to do with Vipers? Please take your ******** elsewhere.

 

[Snakester]

Xanadu,

The Viper does use magnesium, aluminum, and other lighweight materials throughout. They haven't adopted an aluminum frame and CF body panels because DC is holding back the purse strings, as witnessed by how long it took to build the coupe, and how little it's changed over the roadster.

The point of having the Viper more powerful is that it has always been a performance car with more. Admittedly, DC needs to follow the SEMA concept's example of carbon fiber body panels and an adjustable suspension on an upcoming ACR model (along with 625HP+). But it's also very important to keep the Viper's price under $100K.

And a lot of European exotic car's technology is for image sake. And NOT where the Viper needs to go (and cost $200K+).
But TC is just a safety/performance technology that has already been adopted by all of the Viper's competiton, and being able to switch it off means that there is no real downside, especially compared to the many newbie/bad weather accidents that can be prevented.

 

[Viperized]

I understand the no TC guys. It's an easy position to take if you live in California where the weather is always warm and the Viper is a second car. Quite honeslty the Viper could have a lot less horsepower and would probably be a better car. The Lotus Elise example. This car does not have tons of power and I believe you will see a lot less accidents with it and I bet it is as much fun to drive as the Viper (I know, why dont I go buy one then?... ans.I like my Viper but it could be improved). It seems that mostly warm weather owners have the can do no wrong opinion of the Viper. It can be your part time car and you can still drive it most of the time or pretty much whenever you like, its a perfect situation. Check the posts and I think you will find that this is the case. Try driving an SRT10 when its 20-40 degrees out, after its been sitting for a few hours. The run flat tires have very little traction in the cold, this is a known fact. You have to be very gentle with the throttle or the car does the cha-cha. Of course it is possible to maintain control but it is something that you have to be very conscious of or you will be punished. This really becomes a problem for someone not familiar with this aspect of the car, this is made clear by how many accidents occur with first time viper drivers. I dont see anything wrong with a defeatable T/C. On those cold days keeping on the T/C until the tires warm up could make driving the Viper a lot nicer and safer. Especially early in the morning before you have had your coffee.

 

[xanadu]

Viperized and Snakester,

Nice follow up guys. I enjoy reading other points of view, and learning things that I either didn't know about, or was just wrongly informed/confused about. Constructive criticism can be kept in a polite, professional manner without personal attacks or the use of obscene language and harrassing/sexually harrassing remarks. I'm sure many of you on here would love to see this board and countless others out there cleaned up for everyone's better enjoyment. But I just read around the obscene language as best I can. Just too bad some cannot express their thoughts without the use of poor language. My .02.

Back to the subject. Viperized, I never really thought about the tires in cold weather. These run-flats have such a hard compound and now I can see what you mean. This new Ferrari, the F430 coming out, as well as the Enzo, have a pretty cool steering wheel with dials on it for all sorts or settings and adjustments depending on driving tastes and/or conditions. Be kinda cool to see something similar on the Viper, with of course the switch position called "off".

Snakester, Dude, a hundred times I've said this to myself, "Man, what a sweet looking blue!" Sunshine really lights it up, doesn't it?

Peace, Kindness, Politeness and God Bless You All.

II Chronicles 7:12 &amp;14

And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him . . . . If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from Heaven, and will forgive them their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[xanadu]

PS, How's that for preaching?

Ledfoot, less than a year ago I would have hit that **** with you, lined up a dozen shots of Goldschlager's &amp; 151 and if I had it some fat lines of Columbian snow. The anniversary of the last time for coke is coming up on Valentine's Day, when I did 10 lines of prime in less than an hour. Why I'm still alive is beyond me with the way I was living/partying. Sure glad that I finally understood what actually make a person happy, truly happy every single day. It was never in money, sex, drugs, alcohol, possessions or partying. Take that **** hit to help you read, just like I used to take another shot to help me sleep.

Best Regards Bro.